When Was The New Testament Written?

[CShephard53]

Are you really that ignorant when it comes to language? Or are you just toying with me? DO you know why they call the lung disease pneumonia? (Note PNEUMA?)
Air, breath, wind... pneuma... metaphorically air wind and breath represent a person's life or spirit. That is why Genesis translates ruach as the Spirit of God moved across the waters when it really translates as WIND. That is why Paul says pneuma for the spirit or life of someone because to him and all Jews life resided in the one's breath. The word doesn't mean spirit, anymore than the word spirits in English actually means hard liquor. It is used colloquially, it is used as an idiom... but literally does not mean that.

Ad hominem. You say it's what you say it is, and forget the sources I use. Where are your sources, KC? I'm not going to respond to anything until you can give me something other than ad hominem and unsubstantiated claims.

 

[KCDAD]

Ad hominem. You say it's what you say it is, and forget the sources I use. Where are your sources, KC? I'm not going to respond to anything until you can give me something other than ad hominem and unsubstantiated claims.

What do you want a source to? The English language? The Greek language? Medical terminology? Definitions of life? The use of idioms and metaphors in everyday language?

What are you disputing? What is disputable about anything I wrote?

 

[CShephard53]

What do you want a source to? The English language? The Greek language? Medical terminology? Definitions of life? The use of idioms and metaphors in everyday language?

You claim that's what that's from. I asked for a source last time and didn't get it. The idioms and metaphors of the English language means zilch. Modern terminology means zilch. Want to know why? It was originally written in Greek. Each Greek word can have several different English meanings. Each English word can have several different Greek meanings. Same with Hebrew. Greek pnuema has five English meanings, as I've shown you in at least two threads now. Your claim that the phrase 'Jesus gave up his spirit' means he just died has no merit given the evidence shown.

What are you disputing? What is disputable about anything I wrote?

Everything is disputable. If you know anything about debate, that much is apparent. Reasonably disputable is another story.

 

[KCDAD]

The Greek word pneuma has 5 English meanings... so does the English word fluke. So what? If you go back to the origin of the word (Etymology) you will find that fluke originated from the German word for wing... and all the modern derivatives, to include part of an anchor, a flatworm, the tail of a whale, a specific fish and the a chance event all come from the original German meaning.
The same goes for Pneuma... all the definitions air, breath, wind, spirit, ghost. All derive from the original Greek meaning of AIR.

I already explained WHY air, breath and spirit are linked. I think you can figure out the wind, air and breathing connection on your own.
The stretch from wind to spirit is more difficult. Try anyway.

As far as ghost...this is purely a KJV addition because ghost, ghast, geist all come from Old English and German roots meaning spirit (as in the spirit of generosity... not a ghost like Casper.)

 

[CShephard53]

The Greek word pneuma has 5 English meanings... so does the English word fluke. So what? If you go back to the origin of the word (Etymology) you will find that fluke originated from the German word for wing... and all the modern derivatives, to include part of an anchor, a flatworm, the tail of a whale, a specific fish and the a chance event all come from the original German meaning.
The same goes for Pneuma... all the definitions air, breath, wind, spirit, ghost. All derive from the original Greek meaning of AIR.

I already explained WHY air, breath and spirit are linked. I think you can figure out the wind, air and breathing connection on your own.
The stretch from wind to spirit is more difficult. Try anyway.

As far as ghost...this is purely a KJV addition because ghost, ghast, geist all come from Old English and German roots meaning spirit (as in the spirit of generosity... not a ghost like Casper.)

I like how you ignored the request for sources. I also like how you ignored what I wrote. I wasn't talking about root words, I was talking about how a word can have several meanings. When I state:
It was too much.
And then:
He, too, thought it was much.

I do not have the same meaning.

Too in both these cases have different meanings. You're trying to argue that they have the same meaning, essentially.

 

[KCDAD]

I like how you ignored the request for sources. I also like how you ignored what I wrote. I wasn't talking about root words, I was talking about how a word can have several meanings. When I state:
It was too much.
And then:
He, too, thought it was much.

I do not have the same meaning.

Too in both these cases have different meanings. You're trying to argue that they have the same meaning, essentially.

I don't give sources because I give OBVIOUS examples... if you don't believe it look up fluke yourself, or pneuma or ruach or fundamentalist.

Yikes.

too (adv.) "in addition, in excess," late O.E., stressed variant of O.E. prep. to "in the direction of, furthermore" (see to). The spelling with -oo is first recorded 1590. Use after a verb, for emphasis (e.g. did, too!) is attested from 1914. Ger. zu unites the senses of Eng. to and too. Slang too-too "excessive in social elegance" first recorded 1881. Too much "excellent" first recorded 1937 in jazz slang.It means the same in both cases... you try and make it sound like it means dog and motorboat...

Be humble for a change and admit that you have no idea what you are writing.

 

[CShephard53]

I don't give sources because I give OBVIOUS examples... if you don't believe it look up fluke yourself, or pneuma or ruach or fundamentalist.

Yikes.

too (adv.) "in addition, in excess," late O.E., stressed variant of O.E. prep. to "in the direction of, furthermore" (see to). The spelling with -oo is first recorded 1590. Use after a verb, for emphasis (e.g. did, too!) is attested from 1914. Ger. zu unites the senses of Eng. to and too. Slang too-too "excessive in social elegance" first recorded 1881. Too much "excellent" first recorded 1937 in jazz slang.It means the same in both cases... you try and make it sound like it means dog and motorboat...

Be humble for a change and admit that you have no idea what you are writing.

That's funny. You asking me to be humble when it's clear you haven't backed your claim. You know, the one where it's just talking about Jesus dying? Or the one where you think it's just an idiom?

 

[CShephard53]

I don't give sources because I give OBVIOUS examples... if you don't believe it look up fluke yourself, or pneuma or ruach or fundamentalist.

Yikes.

too (adv.) "in addition, in excess," late O.E., stressed variant of O.E. prep. to "in the direction of, furthermore" (see to). The spelling with -oo is first recorded 1590. Use after a verb, for emphasis (e.g. did, too!) is attested from 1914. Ger. zu unites the senses of Eng. to and too. Slang too-too "excessive in social elegance" first recorded 1881. Too much "excellent" first recorded 1937 in jazz slang.It means the same in both cases... you try and make it sound like it means dog and motorboat...

Be humble for a change and admit that you have no idea what you are writing.

Oh, and the thing about having no idea what I'm talking about...
Please, read what you type. Because that statement has no logical substance whatsoever.

 

[KCDAD]

...and yet you don't look up fluke or pneuma or ruach, you don't admit you were wrong about "too", even. Pharaoh was a softy compared to you.
What I said was an idiom, if you bother to go back and read it is giving up the ghost... giving up his spirit (or however you translated it).
He died. He stopped breathing, he breathed his last... no more breathing ever again... he kicked the bucket, shuffled off this mortal coil, brought the farm, croaked.

Nothing magical or mystical about it.

Oh, and the thing about having no idea what I'm talking about...
Please, read what you type. Because that statement has no logical substance whatsoever.

Are you using speak and spell? I figured you were typing your posts...

 

[CShephard53]

...and yet you don't look up fluke or pneuma or ruach, you don't admit you were wrong about "too", even. Pharaoh was a softy compared to you.
What I said was an idiom, if you bother to go back and read it is giving up the ghost... giving up his spirit (or however you translated it).
He died. He stopped breathing, he breathed his last... no more breathing ever again... he kicked the bucket, shuffled off this mortal coil, brought the farm, croaked.

Nothing magical or mystical about it.

Oh, and the thing about having no idea what I'm talking about...
Please, read what you type. Because that statement has no logical substance whatsoever.

Are you using speak and spell? I figured you were typing your posts...

Merely restating more claims. And no, I type.

 

[CShephard53]

How was I wrong about too? Different meanings, same word.

 

[KCDAD]

Yikes.

too (adv.) "in addition, in excess," late O.E., stressed variant of O.E. prep. to "in the direction of, furthermore" (see to). The spelling with -oo is first recorded 1590. Use after a verb, for emphasis (e.g. did, too!) is attested from 1914. Ger. zu unites the senses of Eng. to and too. Slang too-too "excessive in social elegance" first recorded 1881. Too much "excellent" first recorded 1937 in jazz slang.It means the same in both cases... you try and make it sound like it means dog and motorboat...

Be humble for a change and admit that you have no idea what you are writing.

How was I wrong about too? Different meanings, same word.

Unlike you, I can remember what we wrote and read the day before...

So there it is.

Although "in addition" and "in excess" are spelled and pronounced differently, they are in fact synonymous. One is just a little gentler than the other more excitable adverb.

If you fill a cup to the brim, and pour a little more in addition to what you already have you now have an excess of liquid. See how language works? More than one way to skin a cat or crucify a rebel.

 

[CShephard53]

Unlike you, I can remember what we wrote and read the day before...

So there it is.

Although "in addition" and "in excess" are spelled and pronounced differently, they are in fact synonymous. One is just a little gentler than the other more excitable adverb.

If you fill a cup to the brim, and pour a little more in addition to what you already have you now have an excess of liquid. See how language works? More than one way to skin a cat or crucify a rebel.

Right. They are not completely synonomous... and that's talking about an English word, not Greek. I like how you avoided the word before spirit...

 

[KCDAD]

Right. They are not completely synonomous... and that's talking about an English word, not Greek. I like how you avoided the word before spirit...

Breath? The Greek word pneuma?
What is breath? AIR. Duh. What does breath do? Keep you alive. Duh. What is synonymous with someone's life... their personality or spirit; who they are.
They are not completely synonymous? Completely? Are you serious? Completely? Completely serious? I completely think you are completely in complete denial of complete reality.

 

[CShephard53]

Breath? The Greek word pneuma?
What is breath? AIR. Duh. What does breath do? Keep you alive. Duh. What is synonymous with someone's life... their personality or spirit; who they are.
They are not completely synonymous? Completely? Are you serious? Completely? Completely serious? I completely think you are completely in complete denial of complete reality.

I'd suggest you either start giving some backing for your continued claims or start not posting. You're not giving yourself much credit by attacking the other person's credibility. Or trying to.

And I was talking about the word too, not Pneuma. Context, man, context. And Spirit and wind are not synonomous. By the way, air isn't the root- it's wind. It's clearly not talking about wind. Jesus didn't have wind. He had spirit.

 

[KCDAD]

I'd suggest you either start giving some backing for your continued claims or start not posting. You're not giving yourself much credit by attacking the other person's credibility. Or trying to.

And I was talking about the word too, not Pneuma. Context, man, context. And Spirit and wind are not synonomous. By the way, air isn't the root- it's wind. It's clearly not talking about wind. Jesus didn't have wind. He had spirit.

What is the wind made up of... cracker jacks?

Don't be foolish.

What is air when it moves... a superhighway?

Air and wind ARE the same thing.

Let's take the next huge step...

Breath is made up of what... air?

Pneumonia is a disease of the lungs and the job of the lungs is to .... breathe. (Air pressure systems are called pneumatic, etc)

When air moves in and out of the lungs... moving air is called what.... wind or specifically in the case of lungs... breath. So breath and wind are the same in this context.

When stops breathing they... die... cease to be living.... cease to move air... cease to have a wind coming from them... cease to have spirit coming from them....


ERGO: Jesus died, breathed his last, stopped having a spirit, gave up the ghost, or gave up the spirit... gave up his breath, wind, air.

GET IT?

Do you want a source for this, too, or is your rudimentary understanding of language and communication enough for you?

 

[CShephard53]

What is the wind made up of... cracker jacks?

Don't be foolish.

Wind is made of air, but air is not wind. Air is a substance, not describing motion, while wind does.

I am not being foolish, and it might help you to not make such comments. For one who goes on about logic and sense, especially. This does not need to be an emotion filled fight over who's right and who's wrong.

What is air when it moves... a superhighway?

Air and wind ARE the same thing.

No, they are not, as I have just pointed out.

Let's take the next huge step...

Huge? I believe that's an attempt at treating me like a child, or mockery. Try to avoid that.

Breath is made up of what... air?

Breath is made up of air, yes.

Pneumonia is a disease of the lungs and the job of the lungs is to .... breathe. (Air pressure systems are called pneumatic, etc)

Just because we get certain English words from a Greek word does not mean that is their only meaning.

When air moves in and out of the lungs... moving air is called what.... wind or specifically in the case of lungs... breath. So breath and wind are the same in this context.

This proves nothing for your claim.

When stops breathing they... die... cease to be living.... cease to move air... cease to have a wind coming from them... cease to have spirit coming from them....

Except it doesn't say Jesus' breath ceased. It doesn't say that it stopped. It says that Jesus gave up his pneuma. Breath does not make logical sense, given the Greek for 'gave up'. I posted a bit on that, remember- post 38.

ERGO: Jesus died, breathed his last, stopped having a spirit, gave up the ghost, or gave up the spirit... gave up his breath, wind, air.

Not saying the same thing.

GET IT?

Do you want a source for this, too, or is your rudimentary understanding of language and communication enough for you?

I comprehend perfectly what you are trying to say, but given the context of the passage it is not logical. Let me know when you're willing to actually address what I've put forward, rather than making emotionally charged questions and statements designed to get me to second guess myself.

 

[KCDAD]

There is no REASON to continue this conversation.

 

[CShephard53]

There is no REASON to continue this conversation.

Glad to see you're willing to admit that.

 

[TexasSky]

Late 40's
I think 48 AD was the earliest writing from Matthew in Aramaic then he later translated it into Greek.

Then the Gospels were written in the 50's and the last Gospel around 90 AD, and yet the book of Rev was around 100-110 AD by John.

WHY?

The writings are certainly attributed to the disciples and apostles within the first few decades after Christ was rasied.

As to the actual scrolls - many believe that the ORIGINAL scrolls were kept at the Library of Alexandria. That library was built around 3 B.C., and it was destroyed several times in history and rebuilt.

The Pauline epistles were circulating in a collected form by the end of the first century. We know this because Justin Martyre wrote about the "memoirs of the apostles" as early as the second century. Irenaneus refers to a four gospel canon as earl as 160 AD.

These originals were, most believe, lost in the fire of 270 AD.