When was Revelation written, by whom, and to whom does it apply?

[Root of Jesse]

This also proves that context means a lot...

I believe that Revelation was written in the 60s during the reign of Nero. In fact, the Syriac version of the Apocalypse even says "written in Patmos, to which John was sent by Nero Caesar."
Clement tells us that it was written while John was on the island of Patmos where he had been exiled by a tyrant. While Domitian was a tyrant, it is improbable that he's the tyrant mentioned here, because his persecutions were mostly local to Rome. Nero was a sadist, though, and is probably the tyrant mentioned.
Many places in the text show Jesus stating "I am coming soon..." or "The time is near".

In light of when I believe (with scholarly backup), Revelation was written to those who were going to experience the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in AD 70. Since John was witnessing his vision at the time of the executions of Peter and Paul by Nero Caesar, it is a warning to the Church, as well.

I have left out the issue of who wrote Revelation (I believe John the Apostle wrote it) so as to make this first post short, but is part of this topic.

 

[Goatee]

This also proves that context means a lot...

I believe that Revelation was written in the 60s during the reign of Nero. In fact, the Syriac version of the Apocalypse even says "written in Patmos, to which John was sent by Nero Caesar."
Clement tells us that it was written while John was on the island of Patmos where he had been exiled by a tyrant. While Domitian was a tyrant, it is improbable that he's the tyrant mentioned here, because his persecutions were mostly local to Rome. Nero was a sadist, though, and is probably the tyrant mentioned.
Many places in the text show Jesus stating "I am coming soon..." or "The time is near".

In light of when I believe (with scholarly backup), Revelation was written to those who were going to experience the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in AD 70. Since John was witnessing his vision at the time of the executions of Peter and Paul by Nero Caesar, it is a warning to the Church, as well.

I have left out the issue of who wrote Revelation (I believe John the Apostle wrote it) so as to make this first post short, but is part of this topic.

Agree, 100%.

I have always said that Revelations was all about 70AD and the persecution of the early church.

There are so many people who think otherwise as they have misinterpreted scripture!

 

[RC1970]

This also proves that context means a lot...

I believe that Revelation was written in the 60s during the reign of Nero. In fact, the Syriac version of the Apocalypse even says "written in Patmos, to which John was sent by Nero Caesar."
Clement tells us that it was written while John was on the island of Patmos where he had been exiled by a tyrant. While Domitian was a tyrant, it is improbable that he's the tyrant mentioned here, because his persecutions were mostly local to Rome. Nero was a sadist, though, and is probably the tyrant mentioned.
Many places in the text show Jesus stating "I am coming soon..." or "The time is near".

In light of when I believe (with scholarly backup), Revelation was written to those who were going to experience the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in AD 70. Since John was witnessing his vision at the time of the executions of Peter and Paul by Nero Caesar, it is a warning to the Church, as well.

I have left out the issue of who wrote Revelation (I believe John the Apostle wrote it) so as to make this first post short, but is part of this topic.

Yes, you are correct.

You see, it is possible for a Roman Catholic and a Calvinist to agree.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

St. Prochorus is said to have done the penmanship.

Forgive me...

 

[JackRT]

On the other hand most Bible scholars, Catholic and Protestant alike, place it at the end of the first century.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Bible scholars... is another word for those that attend the Church of Scholasticism. Universities et al.

Forgive me...

 

[Papias]

I believe that Revelation was written in the 60s during the reign of Nero. In fact, the Syriac version of the Apocalypse even says "written in Patmos, to which John was sent by Nero Caesar."

A good Catholic analysis of when Revelation was written is found in the introduction to the "Revelation" commentary book in the Catholic Commentary on Sacred Scripture series. (Link: Revelation )

It has:

However, the majority of interpreters, ancient and modern, hold that Revelation was written in the mid-90s, during the reign of the emperor Domitian (81–96).7 Irenaeus, writing in Against Heresies (5.30.3) around the year 180, states that John “beheld the apocalyptic vision . . . not a very long time ago, but almost in our day, towards the end of Domitian’s reign.” Other ancient writers, including Victorinus, Eusebius, Clement of Alexandria, and Origen, support his view.​

And goes on to give other reasons that the mid-90's date is more likely than the 60s. Among them is that Rev. refers to the beast (likely Nero) as having had a "mortal wound" which had healed. This fits the 90's, when there were a lot of Christians who expected Nero to rise from the dead. It would be difficult to put the writing during the reign of Nero, because Nero hadn't received a "mortal wound", etc. There's a lot more of course, too, so I'll just suggest that those interested can read the Catholic Commentary on Sacred Scripture series, linked to above.

In Christ-

Papias

 

[Root of Jesse]

On the other hand most Bible scholars, Catholic and Protestant alike, place it at the end of the first century.

And most Bible 'scholars' say that Mark was a source for Matthew and Luke, and that there is a Q source...In other words, I'll go back to the Fathers and get my sources there...

 

[Root of Jesse]

A good Catholic analysis of when Revelation was written is found in the introduction to the "Revelation" commentary book in the Catholic Commentary on Sacred Scripture series. (Link: Revelation )

It has:

However, the majority of interpreters, ancient and modern, hold that Revelation was written in the mid-90s, during the reign of the emperor Domitian (81–96).7 Irenaeus, writing in Against Heresies (5.30.3) around the year 180, states that John “beheld the apocalyptic vision . . . not a very long time ago, but almost in our day, towards the end of Domitian’s reign.” Other ancient writers, including Victorinus, Eusebius, Clement of Alexandria, and Origen, support his view.​

And goes on to give other reasons that the mid-90's date is more likely than the 60s. Among them is that Rev. refers to the beast (likely Nero) as having had a "mortal wound" which had healed. This fits the 90's, when there were a lot of Christians who expected Nero to rise from the dead. It would be difficult to put the writing during the reign of Nero, because Nero hadn't received a "mortal wound", etc. There's a lot more of course, too, so I'll just suggest that those interested can read the Catholic Commentary on Sacred Scripture series, linked to above.

In Christ-

Papias

I wouldn't deny that the beast might be Nero. He did have a mortal wound...his mind, mortal wound could be his unrepentant violence. The biggest headscratcher would be that John seems to say that Jesus' return is imminent, and here we are, still guessing.

I guess a lot of my point here is how modern 'scholarship' goes off on a tear when it comes to what the ECF's actually say. I don't like it a bit. My source is Michael Barber's excellent "Coming Soon". I read it every year as I pray with the Divine Office after Easter. And I do not deny Professor Williamson's scholarship. I have not read his books but know of his reputation.

 

[jax5434]

I agree with your view to an extent. Certainly much of the Revelation was fulfilled in 70 AD, but I do not see that the entirety of it was.
God Bless
Jax

 

[mark kennedy]

This also proves that context means a lot...

I believe that Revelation was written in the 60s during the reign of Nero. In fact, the Syriac version of the Apocalypse even says "written in Patmos, to which John was sent by Nero Caesar."
Clement tells us that it was written while John was on the island of Patmos where he had been exiled by a tyrant. While Domitian was a tyrant, it is improbable that he's the tyrant mentioned here, because his persecutions were mostly local to Rome. Nero was a sadist, though, and is probably the tyrant mentioned.
Many places in the text show Jesus stating "I am coming soon..." or "The time is near".

In light of when I believe (with scholarly backup), Revelation was written to those who were going to experience the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in AD 70. Since John was witnessing his vision at the time of the executions of Peter and Paul by Nero Caesar, it is a warning to the Church, as well.

I have left out the issue of who wrote Revelation (I believe John the Apostle wrote it) so as to make this first post short, but is part of this topic.

Revelations was written by John the Apostle between 60 and 70 AD just like the rest of the New Testament. Modern scholarship couldn't be more wrong about that.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Revelations was written by John the Apostle between 60 and 70 AD just like the rest of the New Testament. Modern scholarship couldn't be more wrong about that.

Those dates are more in line with the Gospel of John. Revelation was 95ad. The last one written by an Apostle.

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I really have little use for information that comes only from the scholarly world.

Information does not equal wisdom to me.
In fact information would be judged as tainted if any wisdom were attached.
When it comes to dates in Christianity, I prefer the consensus of All Churches.

Forgive me...

 

[JackRT]

Revelations was written by John the Apostle between 60 and 70 AD just like the rest of the New Testament. Modern scholarship couldn't be more wrong about that.

John Dominic Crossan has provided a detailed classification of our sources for the historical Jesus according to the chronological stratification of the traditions. For a brief discussion of each source, including the reasons for its proposed dating, see John Dominic Crossan, The Historical Jesus (HarperCollins, 1991) Appendix 1, pp. 427-50. All dates shown are C.E. (Common Era).


First Stratum [30 to 60 C.E.]

1. First Letter of Paul to the Thessalonians (late 40s)

2. Letter of Paul to the Galatians (winter of 52/53)

3. First Letter of Paul to the Corinthians (winter of 53/54.)

4. Letter of Paul to the Romans (winter of 55/56)

5. Gospel of Thomas I (earliest layer of Thomas, composed in 50s)

6. Egerton Gospel (50s)

7. P. Vienna G. 2325 (50s)

8. P. Oxyrhynchus 1224 (50s)

9. Gospel of the Hebrews (Egypt, 50s)

10. Sayings Gospel Q (50s)

11. Miracles Collection (50s)

12. Apocalyptic Scenario (50s)

13. Cross Gospel (50s)


Second Stratum [60 to 80 C.E.]

14. Gospel of the Egyptians (60s)

15. Secret Gospel of Mark (early 70s)

16. Gospel of Mark (late 70s)

17. P. Oxyrhynchus 840 (?80s)

18. Gospel of Thomas II (later layers, 70s)

19. Dialogue Collection (70s)

20. Signs Gospel, or Book of Signs (70s)

21. Letter to the Colossians (70s)


Third Stratum [80 to 120 C.E.]

22. Gospel of Matthew (90)

23. Gospel of Luke (90s)

24. Revelation/Apocalypse of John (late 90s)

25. First Letter of Clement (late 90s)

26. Epistle of Barnabas (end first century)

27. Didache (other than 1:3b2:1, 16:35) (end first century)

28. Shepherd of Hermas (100)

29. Letter of James (100)

30. Gospel of John I (early second century)

31. Letter of Ignatius, To the Ephesians (110)

32. Letter of Ignatius, To the Magnesians (110)

33. Letter of Ignatius, To the Trallians (110)

34. Letter of Ignatius, To the Romans (110)

35. Letter of Ignatius, To the Philadelphians (110)

36. Letter of Ignatius, To the Smyrneans (110)

37. Letter of Ignatius, To Polycarp (110)

38. First Letter of Peter (112)

39. Letter of Polycarp, To the Philippians, 1314 (115)

40. First Letter of John (115)


Fourth Stratum [120 to 150 C.E.]

41. Gospel of John II (after 120)

42. Acts of the Apostles (after 120)

43. Apocryphon of James (before 150)

44. First Letter to Timothy (after 120)

45. Second Letter to Timothy (after 120)

46. Letter to Titus (after 120)

47. Second Letter of Peter (between 125 and 150)

48. Letter of Polycarp to the Philippians, 112 (140)

49. Second Letter of Clement (150)

50. Gospel of the Nazoreans (middle second century)

51. Gospel of the Ebionites (middle second century)

52. Didache, 1:3b2:1 (middle second century)

53. Gospel of Peter (middle second century)

Note:my bolding

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

John Dominic Crossan has provided a detailed classification of our sources for the historical Jesus according to the chronological stratification of the traditions. For a brief discussion of each source, including the reasons for its proposed dating, see John Dominic Crossan, The Historical Jesus (HarperCollins, 1991) Appendix 1, pp. 427-50. All dates shown are C.E. (Common Era).


First Stratum [30 to 60 C.E.]

1. First Letter of Paul to the Thessalonians (late 40s)

2. Letter of Paul to the Galatians (winter of 52/53)

3. First Letter of Paul to the Corinthians (winter of 53/54.)

4. Letter of Paul to the Romans (winter of 55/56)

5. Gospel of Thomas I (earliest layer of Thomas, composed in 50s)

6. Egerton Gospel (50s)

7. P. Vienna G. 2325 (50s)

8. P. Oxyrhynchus 1224 (50s)

9. Gospel of the Hebrews (Egypt, 50s)

10. Sayings Gospel Q (50s)

11. Miracles Collection (50s)

12. Apocalyptic Scenario (50s)

13. Cross Gospel (50s)


Second Stratum [60 to 80 C.E.]

14. Gospel of the Egyptians (60s)

15. Secret Gospel of Mark (early 70s)

16. Gospel of Mark (late 70s)

17. P. Oxyrhynchus 840 (?80s)

18. Gospel of Thomas II (later layers, 70s)

19. Dialogue Collection (70s)

20. Signs Gospel, or Book of Signs (70s)

21. Letter to the Colossians (70s)


Third Stratum [80 to 120 C.E.]

22. Gospel of Matthew (90)

23. Gospel of Luke (90s)

24. Revelation/Apocalypse of John (late 90s)

25. First Letter of Clement (late 90s)

26. Epistle of Barnabas (end first century)

27. Didache (other than 1:3b2:1, 16:35) (end first century)

28. Shepherd of Hermas (100)

29. Letter of James (100)

30. Gospel of John I (early second century)

31. Letter of Ignatius, To the Ephesians (110)

32. Letter of Ignatius, To the Magnesians (110)

33. Letter of Ignatius, To the Trallians (110)

34. Letter of Ignatius, To the Romans (110)

35. Letter of Ignatius, To the Philadelphians (110)

36. Letter of Ignatius, To the Smyrneans (110)

37. Letter of Ignatius, To Polycarp (110)

38. First Letter of Peter (112)

39. Letter of Polycarp, To the Philippians, 1314 (115)

40. First Letter of John (115)


Fourth Stratum [120 to 150 C.E.]

41. Gospel of John II (after 120)

42. Acts of the Apostles (after 120)

43. Apocryphon of James (before 150)

44. First Letter to Timothy (after 120)

45. Second Letter to Timothy (after 120)

46. Letter to Titus (after 120)

47. Second Letter of Peter (between 125 and 150)

48. Letter of Polycarp to the Philippians, 112 (140)

49. Second Letter of Clement (150)

50. Gospel of the Nazoreans (middle second century)

51. Gospel of the Ebionites (middle second century)

52. Didache, 1:3b2:1 (middle second century)

53. Gospel of Peter (middle second century)

Note:my bolding

Wow... comparing. Are these dates given supposed to be when they were written, or where we can find the earliest use textually? What?

For instance... these are very different.

50 The Gospel of Matthew is written in Aramaic.

50-52 The Gospel of Matthew is translated into Greek at the schools of Antioch for liturgical use. The Hebrew copy of Matthew is present in Antioch.

Forgive me...

 

[Revealing Times]

This also proves that context means a lot...

I believe that Revelation was written in the 60s during the reign of Nero. In fact, the Syriac version of the Apocalypse even says "written in Patmos, to which John was sent by Nero Caesar."
Clement tells us that it was written while John was on the island of Patmos where he had been exiled by a tyrant. While Domitian was a tyrant, it is improbable that he's the tyrant mentioned here, because his persecutions were mostly local to Rome. Nero was a sadist, though, and is probably the tyrant mentioned.
Many places in the text show Jesus stating "I am coming soon..." or "The time is near".

In light of when I believe (with scholarly backup), Revelation was written to those who were going to experience the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in AD 70. Since John was witnessing his vision at the time of the executions of Peter and Paul by Nero Caesar, it is a warning to the Church, as well.

I have left out the issue of who wrote Revelation (I believe John the Apostle wrote it) so as to make this first post short, but is part of this topic.

This will not apply to everyone, of course, but I find people with confirmation biases make bad testimonials/judgments. I would say that most who believe John wrote Revelation before AD 70 think so because they believe AD 70 fulfilled much of Revelation, so I don't put a whole lot of stock into those beliefs because they clearly have a conflict of interest.

Jesus says no one knows the hour nor the day but the Father, so Jesus' soon to come is true, the word is relative, to God there is no time, to Jesus Soon is when the Father tells him to come, Jesus told parables to keep the world from knowing what his followers knew. Jesus wanted the Church to be ready, thus he told then to always be ready, live in the light, not in the dark, thus I will come as a thief, when they are asleep, but you should be awake (expectant).

Revelation was written unto the Asia Minor Churches, the date has been established by tradition as mid 90's. I will go with the tradition of the Churches.

 

[mark kennedy]

Those dates are more in line with the Gospel of John. Revelation was 95ad. The last one written by an Apostle.

Forgive me...

That's usually based on manuscript evidence I find entirely unconvincing.

 

[JackRT]

That's usually based on manuscript evidence I find entirely unconvincing.

I think it most unlikely that Revelation was written by John the Apostle.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I think it most unlikely that Revelation was written by John the Apostle.

Really?

Even though every Apostolic Church teaches that he did... your going to go out on a limb...

When I find all of the Ancient catholic orthodox Christian Churches teaching exactly the same thing I find it trustworthy.

No?

Forgive me...

 

[JackRT]

Forgive me...

I will not forgive you!!!

There is nothing to forgive.