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When two worldviews collide.

Ana the Ist

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public hermit

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You can't. Typical of those who start with ad homs.





It's not an illusion....

It's about seeing things as they are lol.

You'll have to wait a minute; I'm still relishing the post before yours.
 
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anetazo

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Judges chapter 1 and 2. Israel failed to drive out the heathen nations. In deuteronomy , God told Israel not to make covenant or marry with the heathen. Israel picked up their heathen traditions and customs. Israel committed idolatry.
Today, education system drove God out. Teaching evolution and philosophy. This is heathen. I'm not knocking churches down. But some teach tradition of men and false doctrine.
Christian people are not to compromise their values and beliefs. First Corinthians chapter 5:7. Purge out there fore the old leaven, that ye may be new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even christ our Passover is sacrificed for us.

Unleavened bread is sound doctrine. Leaven bread is false doctrine and heathism. Some churches have quarterly packets. The pastor/priests must teach from. Thier position iis compromised. Some Christian people go to church to have their ears tickled. They want to hear only what they hear.
Second Timothy chapter 4:3. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; Get the picture.

Those with seal of God, revelation chapter 7, are prepared to stand against antichrist and wicked near future. Satan hates Gods truth. The wicked hate Christians. Revelation is 12, thier will be persecution when satan as antichrist comes 6th trump, he will declare war on the saints. Those with seal of God won't be deceived by antichrist lies and deception. Knowledge is the key.
 
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Robban

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Now why doesn't that work for the father who wanted to get work as a typist?

The fathers role and his contribution is minimal concerning giving birth,

It is the woman who bears the child to be, it is nourished by her alone.

Women have a high status in that repect, they can do what no man can do.

OK, it takes two to tango but women will come to the forefront and be raised up.

Not all women can give birth.


The Rebbe and Rebbetzin had no children of their own, yet they had and have thousnds.
But that would be branching off onto another track.
 
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Kylie

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Saying that "morality was around before religion" doesn't actually say very much. What kind of "morality" was around before religion? I'm going to need more than the Shook article you used as a form of support to more fully get the gist of what you're attempting to communicate.
I think I was quite clear that it was the morality that Christianity claims as its own.

In my post 1212, I stated, "I do not think Christianity came up with these values. Rather, I think society came up with them, and when Christianity moved in, it took them, claimed it had invented them, and took credit for morality that had existed long before Christianity."

So please don't act as though I was unclear when I was actually very specific in what I was talking about.
 
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Kylie

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Oh darn. I'm sure they thought they could fool you. Cause all those Bills forbade trans adults from doing anything at all. Reading the article again...... Oh wait. I was right after all. They aren't doing that. They are keeping the kids safe.
Ah, so you think that trans kids saying they are trans is them putting themselves in danger?

The evidence is overwhelming that not respecting trans kids leads to increased depression and suicide. Is that what you call "safe"?
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I think I was quite clear that it was the morality that Christianity claims as its own.

In my post 1212, I stated, "I do not think Christianity came up with these values. Rather, I think society came up with them, and when Christianity moved in, it took them, claimed it had invented them, and took credit for morality that had existed long before Christianity."

So please don't act as though I was unclear when I was actually very specific in what I was talking about.

And what precisely is the "morality" that Christianity claims as its "own"?

I have to ask because I seem to be getting conflicting reports about what exactly makes up the "Christian" morality. So, you'll have to be more specific for the sake of clarity.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Getting back to my original response to this thread...


I disagree. I do not think Christianity came up with these values. Rather, I think society came up with them, and when Christianity moved in, it took them, claimed it had invented them, and took credit for morality that had existed long before Christianity.

Here's the thing: The following authors, for various reasons, would say that while you're partially correct, you're only partially so, and there's more to the complexity of the overall moral story that has transpired among humanity since the 1st century than it seems you're willing to let on, Kylie:
Sunshine, G. S. (2009). Why you think the way you do: The story of western worldviews from Rome to home. Zondervan Academic.​
Schmidt, A. J. (2009). How Christianity changed the world. Zondervan.​
Patterson, O. (1991). Freedom: Freedom in the making of western culture. BasicBooks/Harpercollins.​
 
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Ophiolite

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That's just an extension of the previous point made about feminism's gains being granted by men. Go back a few posts to follow the progression. I'm not repeating the whole argument for you.
Well, I went back several posts and discovered that you were not only mistaken, but that mistake was a deeply cynical, self indulgent worldview, wrapped in a tortilla of mysoginism and male privilege, bereft of any hint of side dishes of logc, rationality or humanity. So, that leaves it with you making assertions you believe self evident, yet are unable to demonstrate in a rational and scientific fashion. Kind of leaves you out their in the wilderness howling with the wolves.

Protection. Not subjugated...protected. Sheltered. Cared for. Privileged.
If George Orwell had not already laid the groundwork for the concept of doublespeak, your corruption of the word protection would require its introduction now.

Edit- if my argument is that the entirety of feminism relies upon the will of men to defend and enforce it, literally the worst thing you can do is come riding in like a white knight...you're just making my point for me.
Interesting. So, if men continue to declare their superiority, seek to exclude women from the upper echelons of society in general and the workplace in particular, insist on "protecting" the poor dears, and generally patronise them, then feminism will never achieve its aims. Wow! Such incisive logic. Thank you for making my point for me. The enforcement that exists and that is challenged by feminism is the insistence that women are second class citizens requiring male protection and they better dang well take that protection and like it. (And have the children, raise them, keep the house clean, produce meals on time, etc.)

Sir Andy Murray, former world number 1 tennis player, winner of four grand slams and two Olympic Gold medals was being interviewed in 2018(?) after being knocked out of Wimbledon in the quarter finals by the American Sam Querry. He was asked by a reporter what significance he attached to Querry being the first American to reach the semi-finals of a major since 2009. Murray immediately corrected him "Male player", thereby politely reminding the reporter of the repeated appearance in finals and semi-finals by the Williams sisters throughout that interval. That's not the act of a White Knight, that's just a person reminding another person to respect the achievements and the capabilities of other people irrespective of their sex.

Now your comment above was not directed at me, but superficially might seem to be applicable to me, for the record.

I am not supporting or defending @Paidiske. For one, she doesn't need such support. Rather I am defending her arguments and I am doing that for purely selfish reasons:
  1. I think when the general aims of feminism are attained society will be a better place for my children and grandchildren (and everybody else, but as I said I'm primarily motivated by personal interests.)
  2. I think the patriarchal and patronising nonsense you espouse should be called out and doing so gives me a (small) measure of satisfaction.
 
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rjs330

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Ah, so you think that trans kids saying they are trans is them putting themselves in danger?

The evidence is overwhelming that not respecting trans kids leads to increased depression and suicide. Is that what you call "safe"?
Sorry but no evidence shoes that. You can respect the hardship they are going through without harming them with medical intervention. The ones that are truly dysphoric. Not the other ones who are just struggling with growing up. There is no evidence that states if you don't medically transition them they will commit suicide at a higher rate.
 
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rjs330

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The sooner western Christians realize they're idolatrous love of human power, i.e the force of government, is a mistake, the better. :)
You mean like the leftists idolatrous love of human power ie the force of government,? When will they realize it's a mistake?
 
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rjs330

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You want some cheese with that whine? It's not about either one of us. It's about seeing things as they are. You say women can't do men's work. That's just stupid. I know different. It ain't a secret. You want to be treated with respect? Don't be ignorant.
There is no doubt that women can't do some of mens work. Or they can't do it as well. There's no shame in admitting that. Men and women are different. That's a good thing. We don't want them exactly the same. My wife is a much better mother than me. I'm a much better dad than her. Now that doesn't mean all women can't do all the things men can do. That would be silly. Sure there are some women who can do what a man can. They are out there. But by and large they can't. And men can't give birth no matter what the trans have to say.

By and large men are the better leaders. That's not to there are no good women leaders. Margaret Thatcher comes to mind. Men can also be the worst of leaders. I don't think we even need to name names. But it was good Men that Rose up to defeat the bad ones. Men are also the best builders.

I've had a discussion with another member similar to this. Women are no better than men in leadership. Some have been. But by and large men are better. I've had a lot of men bosses. Some were jerks while others were really good. I've only ever had one good female boss. The rest were jerks. No one liked them. They were bossy as they say.

I've heard plenty of women state they would rather work for a man than a woman.
 
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Ana the Ist

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Well, I went back several posts and discovered that you were not only mistaken,

About what?



wrapped in a tortilla of mysoginism and male privilege

Normally I just erase these sort of long-winded attempts to insult me....but I saw the word tortilla and had to pause. Great visual. Me in a tortilla.

Interesting. So, if men continue to declare their superiority,

Mhm.

seek to exclude women from the upper echelons of society in general and the workplace in particular,

Mhm.

insist on "protecting" the poor dears, and generally patronise them, then feminism will never achieve its aims.
Mhm. Oh wait....you didn't actually read anything I wrote did you?


What are the aims of feminism in your mind? Because @Paidiske said it was something like the flourishing of women or women and men (which isn't true) and beyond that vague abstraction it's just a handful of complaints.


Wow! Such incisive logic. Thank you for making my point for me.

You don't seem to have a point.

The enforcement that exists and that is challenged by feminism is the insistence that women are second class citizens requiring male protection and they better dang well take that protection and like it. (And have the children, raise them, keep the house clean, produce meals on time, etc.)

Sir Andy Murray, former world number 1 tennis player, winner of four grand slams and two Olympic Gold medals was being interviewed in 2018(?) after being knocked out of Wimbledon in the quarter finals by the American Sam Querry. He was asked by a reporter what significance he attached to Querry being the first American to reach the semi-finals of a major since 2009. Murray immediately corrected him "Male player", thereby politely reminding the reporter of the repeated appearance in finals and semi-finals by the Williams sisters throughout that interval. That's not the act of a White Knight, that's just a person reminding another person to respect the achievements and the capabilities of other people irrespective of their sex.

He corrected the reporter's factual mistake. No such thing has yet happened on this thread lol.


Now your comment above was not directed at me, but superficially might seem to be applicable to me, for the record.

I am not supporting or defending @Paidiske. For one, she doesn't need such support. Rather I am defending her arguments and I am doing that for purely selfish reasons:
  1. I think when the general aims of feminism are attained society will be a better place for my children and grandchildren (and everybody else, but as I said I'm primarily motivated by personal interests.)

What are the general aims?



  1. I think the patriarchal and patronising nonsense you espouse should be called out and doing so gives me a (small) measure of satisfaction.

Yeah it's virtue signaling. A hallmark of the morally bereft. Those whose morals change right along with popular opinion and fail to think for themselves.
 
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Bradskii

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The fathers role and his contribution is minimal concerning giving birth,
The point being made was that there are too many assumptions being made in that story. One, that typing was the job for the woman and not engineering or mechanic and that the father would not be involved in bringing up the child.
 
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Bradskii

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And what precisely is the "morality" that Christianity claims as its "own"?
Ten commandments? Anything in the bible that says 'thou shalt' or 'thou shalt not'?
 
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Robban

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The point being made was that there are too many assumptions being made in that story. One, that typing was the job for the woman and not engineering or mechanic and that the father would not be involved in bringing up the child.
It was a true example and in that example it happened to be typing.

But surely you should know that women are just as capable as men,

welders, mechanics, flying, astronauts, snipers you name it.

Also in the example she felt a need to work to make the economy go round.

But she was also a mother not a singel girl, she had reaponsability for her child/children.

The man also has responsability but he was at work all day already.

Which is why she consulted with the Rebbe.

She should not let a career get the better of her, she was afterall, a mother, first.
 
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Paidiske

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By and large men are the better leaders. That's not to there are no good women leaders.
Look, if you want to argue that men are, on average, physically stronger than women, that's true enough (although no reason to pigeonhole anyone). But if you want to argue that men are better leaders, (where leadership is the effective use of a mix of skills, none of them particularly about physicality) then you'd better come with evidence.
 
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Bradskii

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It was a true example and in that example it happened to be typing.
At the time when women knew their place in the workplace. Brush up your Pittman and it's the typing pool for you, my girl. Please wear a dress and not too much makeup, thanks. And I take my tea black, no sugar.

I think some people in this thread see it as The Good Old Days.

Typing POOL.jpg
 
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