When The Heavens Are No More.

[Laqachbeforethetrib]

Posting this to fix ability to paste from blb bible verses, so that my posts will not say "can't post to outside link" -frustrating!

 

[Laqachbeforethetrib]

Really? You have not read the Bible, then, and have no idea what is written there, when it is referred to? Salvation is of the Jews, and the doctrine of Christ and His finished work is only taught by the Living Oracles committed only to the Jews -His own namesake people of the New Man name, into which name we who are born again are joined, by the adoption, as grafted in branches.

Let me show you something you need to learn His doctrine from before you can be a "teacher" of His Word:
Hebrews 5: 12
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which [be] the first principles [the abc's] of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
You'll have to go learn the doctrine of Christ and the restoration of all things from the Schoolmaster, which was given as a Tutor to bring us to Christ.
The Feasts of YHWH [and some of them are fasts] are His "Holy convocations", which Feasts are actual dress rehearsals performed as types and shadows of His final acts of His times and seasons of restoring all things; and when each one is fulfilled totally [which were given only to His own namesake people [called by His New Man name "Israel" -Isaiah 49] to perform, then those feasts will never be celebrated again.
The first harvest of sons of God which will be ingathered to the heavenly temple is called Pentecost, and is ongoing since Jesus ascended as the Son of Man and received the Glory, without measure.

Jesus rose and ascended to the Father on the "First of Firstfruits", to present the First of Firstfruits of earth's harvest of "sons of God" for the Glory of the Father to indwell -which Glory indwelling of the temple of humankind [Haggai 2] is what redemption "back to" is for, and is what Adam lost in the fall].


When He ascended to be seated forty days later, and received the Glory as the Firstborn/Chief/Head of the second race of human kind, taking the seat of earth's spiritual dominion as it's Head, which Adam never got to ascend to as "Adam, son of God" [Luke 3:38; John 3:13] because of the fall -and which spiritual dominion Adam has been cut off from ever since, then He received the Glory without measure, as the Foundation of the second Temple of human kind, on Pentecost, and He sent that foretaste of Glory to His adopted/regenerated sons; and all who are added to His "Church/body by the second birth of Sprit [which is the regeneration of Spirit, given by the Spirit of Adoption[, are part of the first harvest which is to be ingathered to heaven, before the Feasts of YHWH commence.
Today is the Day of Salvation in which the harvest is being worked by the "laborers" which is to be "full come in" before the last harvest is grown.

The last harvest is at Tabernacles, which will be celebrated through the Millennium, for it will not be fulfilled until the millennial reign is ended and earth's final harvest is ingathered.
Atonement was fulfilled at Passover, and will never be done as it was in the shadows and types, again, for that will be a Feast in the Millinnial reign, instead of a fast, celebrating the Atonement/Reconciliation of the Lamb of God as the Final Sacrifice which made an end of the remembrance of Adam's transgression before the Father.

GrandGuignol,
Time for you to search the Living Oracles as the schoolmaster unto Christ.

 

[Laqachbeforethetrib]

Four to go to be able to paste from blue letter Bible

 

[Laqachbeforethetrib]

Unto the Jews were committed the Oracles of God

Romans 3: 1 and 2 say the advantage the Jews have is that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

 

[Laqachbeforethetrib]

Hebrews 6 has a picture of the foundation laid in a Believer by the Oracles, from which they must go on from, not laying again.

 

[Laqachbeforethetrib]

Job is part of the first resurrection, being raised in the Spirit of regeneration already, and one of the "spirits of just men made perfect [born again] who were taken to Zion above by the LORD Jesus when He descended and "Led Captivity captive at His ascension".

Job was never under the law, but that has no bearing on the resurrection of the dead in Christ. Job was learned in the promise of the Redeemer, being a descendent of Abraham through Esau ["Jobab" the second chief in Edom, say the ancient Jews], for Abraham taught his sons the revelation of the Redeemer which he had and rejoiced in, in Genesis 22, when He saw the day of the LORD Jesus, as a prophet acting out the living oracle of that day to come. -Job was also familiar with Enoch's writings, as much in Job is referring to what is first written there [even though Job's comforters read the wisdom written by Enoch for his descendents, they misapplied it, as unseeing men still do today], and the resurrection of the righteous and the millennial reign is taught in that book, before the final reforming of the heavens and earth.

Jeff,
You haven't addressed this post and Job's light on his own resurretion in the "last day".
Is there a resurrection after "heavens are no more" in Scripture?

Jesus promised to resurrect those who are His at the "last day". Are you claiming Jesus meant "after the last day" He would resurrect His own? -where in Scripture does Jesus contradict Himself on raising His own at the Last Day?

 

[Laqachbeforethetrib]

Jeff,
You haven't addressed this post and Job's light on his own resurretion in the "last day".
Is there a resurrection after "heavens are no more" in Scripture?

Jesus promised to resurrect those who are His at the "last day". Are you claiming Jesus meant "after the last day" He would resurrect His own? -where in Scripture does Jesus contradict Himself on raising His own in the Last Day?

Jhn 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jhn 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jhn 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

So Jeff, are you changing Jesus' words to "I will raise him up after the last day is ended and heaven and earth is no more"?

Martha knew what Job knew, and they both understood the Last Day to be the Millennium Day, the last of seven thousand year days allotted to this present creation.
Jhn 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

 

[Laqachbeforethetrib]

2Pe 3:10¶But the day of the Lord
will come
as a thief in the night;

in/en the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat,
the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

en: 1: locally; of place proper; a in the interior of some whole... http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1722&Version=kjv

the whole day is one thousand years long, and in the whole of that time, the heavens and earth shall pass away and the eighth day of creation, which is the new beginning, shall come, with the regeneration of the heavens and the earth in which there will be no unrighteousness nor shall there be any judgment, for that will have all been finished within the last day of this present creation, for Jesus said so..

There is much in the oracles about the 8th day and the New Beginning.

 

[jeffweeder]

So Jeff, are you changing Jesus' words to "I will raise him up after the last day is ended and heaven and earth is no more"?

no, i said the last day, Jesus said the last day.
Its a unique day.
Jesus said ,
Heaven and earth will pass away, but his words will not. (They will come true even though heaven and earth pass away)
What was he talking about when he said this?
his coming being near?


33 so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door
34 "Truly I say to you, this generation[24][Or race ] will not pass away until all these things take place.
35 "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.

what are "these things" we see in v33 ?
What was he saying just prior to this?

29 "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

30 "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory

so even if heaven and earth pass away--and they will---Jesus will not fail in his words to come again and recieve us. In fact he is near, and the sign of the son of man shall appear through all the shaking in the heavens.
Stand up and lift your head for your redemption is drawing near.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

no, i said the last day, Jesus said the last day.
Its a unique day.
Jesus said ,
Heaven and earth will pass away, but his words will not. (They will come true even though heaven and earth pass away)
What was he talking about when he said this?
his coming being near?


33 so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door
34 "Truly I say to you, this generation[24][Or race ] will not pass away until all these things take place.
35 "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.

what are "these things" we see in v33 ?
What was he saying just prior to this?



so even if heaven and earth pass away--and they will---Jesus will not fail in his words to come again and recieve us. In fact he is near, and the sign of the son of man shall appear through all the shaking in the heavens.
Stand up and lift your head for your redemption is drawing near.

I finally got help from the powers that be at CF, and my own username logged in again -that feels better!
So you don't believe Jesus meant "at" the last day, which word "at", is defined as "within a time frame", and in Jesus' words the time frame is "the last day", but you think it means after the last day?

BTW, Jesus' statement on "this generation not passing away until all these things come to pass" is within the time frame of the seven year great tribulation, for at His return, "this generation" as promised by the LORD in Enoch and in the OT and in the NT, will pass away, which generation which shall pass away and then "the meek shall inherit the earth ", as Psalm 37 clearly states, and Jesus compares 'this generation' that shall pass away to the wicked passing away at the first consumation of sin on earth.
Who passes away? -the wicked.
Who inherits the earth? -the meek.
When? At the Last Day, when the laqach of the Church comes first and the seven years on earth begin, which ends with the return of the LORD,;the gathering of the tares =the wicked; and the gathering of the Jews as the Elect [Ezekiel 20:33-44]; then the gathering of the Gentiles as the sheep and the goats. With the elect Jews who are left after the passing under of His rod at Sinai [Ezekiel 20:33-44, and Enoch], and the Gentile sheep being given eternal life -which none of the elect Jews nor sheep Gentiles could receive for the last 'half hour' of the darkest age earth will ever have known, and which they receive at His Throne of glory judgment at Sinai when they go into the millennial reign to repopulate the earth.

But the wicked tares [demons] will all be gathered and burned before the elect Jews and Gentile sheep and goat sheep are dealt with at Sinai. -Before that, Jesus will have dealt with the beast and the false prophet and the fallen angels.

 

[jeffweeder]

Those that are gathered out of the GT in REV 7 are before the throne of God, and serve him.
These are they that have washed their robes in the blood of the lamb, and the number of them is innumerable.----
Jesus then must of come back as promised for them to be before the throne of God.
This is where Jesus is now, and he said he would come so we could be where he is.
So I think the heavens are no more at this point as we are gathered in heaven and have been ressurected.

Look at the scripture closely in REV 7;

13

Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?"
14 I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 "For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them.
16 "They will hunger no longer, nor thirst anymore; nor will the sun beat down on them, nor any heat;
17 for the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd, and will guide them to springs of the water of life; and God will wipe every tear from their eyes."

Now compare this to REV 21

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.
2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell[1][Or tabernacle ] among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them,
4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away."
5 And He who sits on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." And He said, "Write, for these words are faithful and true."
6 Then He said to me, "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost.
7 "He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.

NOW COMPARE THIS WITH Is 25;


He will swallow up death for all time,
And the Lord GOD will wipe tears away from all faces,
And He will remove the reproach of His people from all the earth;
For the LORD has spoken.
9 And it will be said in that day,
"Behold, this is our God for whom we have waited that He might save us.
This is the LORD for whom we have waited;
Let us rejoice and be glad in His salvation."

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Those that are gathered out of the GT in REV 7 are before the throne of God, and serve him.
These are they that have washed their robes in the blood of the lamb, and the number of them is innumerable.----
Jesus then must of come back as promised for them to be before the throne of God.
This is where Jesus is now, and he said he would come so we could be where he is.
So I think the heavens are no more at this point as we are gathered in heaven and have been ressurected.

Look at the scripture closely in REV 7;

13

Now compare this to REV 21




NOW COMPARE THIS WITH Is 25;


He will swallow up death for all time,
And the Lord GOD will wipe tears away from all faces,
And He will remove the reproach of His people from all the earth;
For the LORD has spoken.
9 And it will be said in that day,
"Behold, this is our God for whom we have waited that He might save us.
This is the LORD for whom we have waited;
Let us rejoice and be glad in His salvation."

Very interesting, isn't it!

What I see is a multitude in heaven in Rev 7 whom God has wiped every tear from their eyes in the New Jerusalem, the city/place prepared for us in the Father's house which comes down from heaven at the end of the millenium.

At the end of the millenium, death is destroyed according to rev 20 and Is 25 (as you quoted above) and the dwelling of God is with all mankind in the New Heavens, New Earth.

SO, the question is, when did those in Rev 7...who are in the New Jerusalem...go? We know when they return (at the end of the millenium) but when did they go?


Hbr 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly,
Hbr 12:23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect,


Hbr 11:16Instead, they were longing for a better country-a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.

Rev 21:2I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

We are in that city. We are the Bride of Christ. Because we believe in Jesus (washed our robes in the blood of the Lamb), we have a place prepared for us in the "Father's house" which Jesus said that he would come back and take us to in John 14:

Jhn 14:2 In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you.
Jhn 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.


When do we go?

Isa 26:19 But your dead will live;
their bodies will rise.
You who dwell in the dust,
wake up and shout for joy.
Your dew is like the dew of the morning;
the earth will give birth to her dead.
Isa 26:20 Go, my people, enter your rooms
and shut the doors behind you;
hide yourselves for a little while
until his wrath has passed by.
Isa 26:21 See, the Lord is coming out of his dwelling
to punish the people of the earth for their sins.
The earth will disclose the blood shed upon her;
she will conceal her slain no longer.

Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
How are we "accounted worthy" to "escape all these things" and "stand before the Son of Man"?

By believing in Jesus = "washing our robes in the blood of the Lamb" whom we will stand before in heaven:

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

 

[zeke37]

HI Jen, I am catching up on this thread

Well, as Terrie alluded to above, it seems that Job is a part of the 1st resurrection.

The 2nd resurrection has a judgment attached to it and doesn't happen until the end of the millenium....remember, there will still be dying/death through the millenium... and then death is destroyed, new heavens, new earth.

There is no death in the Millennium, all are changed, where death is defeated....

this is at the last trump...the gathering to Christ...

for the corruptible must first put on that which is incorruptible. 1Cor15

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

corruptible is the flesh body, incorruptible is the very physical non flesh (spiritual) body.

ALL get this body at the last trump, when all are changed...

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

now the death spoken of here is the second death...the death of the soul in the Lake of Fire.

when the mortal (although incorruptibly spiritual/physical during the Millennium) body shall put on immortality.

All millennial souls shall be in angelic-like spiritual bodies, but only some will overcome and gain immortality at the end of the Millennium if they overcome Satan being released for a short season then. Then the mortal shall put on immortality,

corruptible and mortal are not the same, as either are immortal and incorruptible. corruptible and incorruptible are for the flesh to spirit body....

mortal and immortality are for the death of the soul (Lake of Fire) or the life everafter of the soul.

The elect and dead in Christ already have these IMMORTAL bodies, having participated in the first resurrection..., but the rest even though they are in incorruptible (from age, sickness) bodies can still be cast into the Lake of Fire...which destroys the very soul.

in His service
c

 

[yeshuasavedme]

HI Jen, I am catching up on this thread



There is no death in the Millennium, all are changed, where death is defeated....

this is at the last trump...the gathering to Christ...

for the corruptible must first put on that which is incorruptible. 1Cor15

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

corruptible is the flesh body, incorruptible is the very physical non flesh (spiritual) body.

ALL get this body at the last trump, when all are changed...

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

now the death spoken of here is the second death...the death of the soul in the Lake of Fire.

when the mortal (although incorruptibly spiritual/physical during the Millennium) body shall put on immortality.

All millennial souls shall be in angelic-like spiritual bodies, but only some will overcome and gain immortality at the end of the Millennium if they overcome Satan being released for a short season then. Then the immortal shall put on immortality,

corruptible and mortal are not the same, as either are immortal and incorruptible. corruptible and incorruptible are for the flesh to spirit body....

mortal and immortality are for the death of the soul (Lake of Fire) or the life everafter of the soul.

The elect and dead in Christ already have these IMMORTAL bodies, having participated in the first resurrection..., but the rest even though they are in incorruptible (from age, sickness) bodies can still be cast into the Lake of Fire...which destroys the very soul.

in His service
c

Death in the millennium:
Isa 65:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner [being] an hundred years old shall be accursed.
No soul ceases to exist ever, and all who are not born again are resurrected in their own bodies and are cast into the Abyss, soul in body, which is not a ceasing to exist, but is an existing in the second death, which death is the eternal cutting off from God, in the blackness of darkness forever, which is without remedy, for of all the cast aways.

 

[zeke37]

Death in the millennium:
Isa 65:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner [being] an hundred years old shall be accursed.

symbolic....bad translation, see the Hebrew...no age....metaphor...

No soul ceases to exist ever, and all who are not born again are resurrected in their own bodies and are cast into the Abyss, soul in body, which is not a ceasing to exist, but is an existing in the second death, which death is the eternal cutting off from God, in the blackness of darkness forever, which is without remedy, for of all the cast aways.

Christ and flesh cannot be here at the same time.

no age....


no carnivores....


no flesh....


souls can be destroyed...it is called the second death, the death of the soul...


fear not man, who can kill the body, fear (revere) God, who can kill the soul....in the Lake of Fire....

son of Perdition, Satan already judged to be destroyed from within, forever and ever....soul death....what we are all trying to avoid.

only man's tradition teaches that hell is not the destruction of the soul, but a place of torture that never ends...when the scriptures are laid side by side, the symbolic language can be spotted easily...


in His service
c

 

[HisdaughterJen]

symbolic....bad translation, see the Hebrew...no age....metaphor...



Christ and flesh cannot be here at the same time.

no age....


no carnivores....


no flesh....


souls can be destroyed...it is called the second death, the death of the soul...


fear not man, who can kill the body, fear (revere) God, who can kill the soul....in the Lake of Fire....

son of Perdition, Satan already judged to be destroyed from within, forever and ever....soul death....what we are all trying to avoid.

only man's tradition teaches that hell is not the destruction of the soul, but a place of torture that never ends...when the scriptures are laid side by side, the symbolic language can be spotted easily...


in His service
c

Got scriptures?

 

[yeshuasavedme]

symbolic....bad translation, see the Hebrew...no age....metaphor...



Christ and flesh cannot be here at the same time.

no age....


no carnivores....


no flesh....


souls can be destroyed...it is called the second death, the death of the soul...


fear not man, who can kill the body, fear (revere) God, who can kill the soul....in the Lake of Fire....

son of Perdition, Satan already judged to be destroyed from within, forever and ever....soul death....what we are all trying to avoid.

only man's tradition teaches that hell is not the destruction of the soul, but a place of torture that never ends...when the scriptures are laid side by side, the symbolic language can be spotted easily...


in His service
c

We are warned not to deny His being now come in flesh. He is returning in the same body He laid down, in which He ascended and is glorified, and that is in Revelation 19.

The spirit of antichrist does not confess that Christ [the everlasting Living Spirit] is come [present tense] in flesh.
1Jo 4:1¶Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jo 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
The second death is the Abyss of fire, made as a place of eternal torment for the devil and his angels, and all have their own part in it who are blotted out of the book of Life.
It is eternal separation from the Presense of the Triune God and is called the blackness of darkness, for His light never shall shine there.

Isaiah gives the picture of the blessings of the Millennium/Sabbath/seventh of thousand years for earth, for those who enter into it to populate the earth, and an infant dies at a hundred, for the days of "His people" shall be as the days of a tree, so that a hundred year old shall considered to be "an infant" of "days".