When healing doesn't come

[AndOne]

You guys remind me of Job's three friends.....

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"just because the Lord does not grant my request for healing (at least not now) does not mean he won't do it for another brother or sister."

BINGO!!!!!

Whether God heals ME (of my heart condition) or not (I have no indication that HE will), has no effect on the simple TRUTH That "God HEALS" according to His will. I've WATCHED Him do it.

And I also remember the discussion with my mother before she died back in the late '80s in terrible pain (Fibrositus). She'd been a Christian all her life (a product of the Northern Irish Revival) and wanted to know if there was any Biblical way she could "end it". But we both knew there wasn't - and the Lord took her about 3 months later.

 

[Yahu]

What do you make of it when a person has had a sickness for many years and has been struggling with pain - and is charismatic and asks continually for God's healing and it doesn't come?

I'm sort of in this situation as a family member of mine has been suffering for many years - and as a Charismatic Christian I have asked for God's miraculous healing but the answer seems to always be "no." In fact the condition has only gotten worse with time. I must say it has gotten frustrating - though I have never stopped asking the Lord for his healing...

My sister-in-law had cancer. She tried for healing many times. It was revealed that the reason she didn't get healed was because of unrepented sin in her life. She was harboring bitterness and anger over a major family conflict. She then repented and is cancer free now!

Word of Faith teaches that all we need to do is pray. IMO that is wrong. We have to close the door that allowed the enemy in to attack us to begin with. What good is it to get rid of the symptom if the root cause is still there to bring it back.

Another example. A friend's new husband was sterile. They found out when they tried to have children. She was in the military living in the dorm while her husband was attending college 60 miles away so she kept her dorm room even after marrying. Her roommate was a witch. The coven of her roommate had placed a sterility curse on her new husband when they heard they were going to try for a baby. The coven hated her for her christian testimony. We didn't know about the witchcraft at the time but I prayed over Tony for healing. He also saw his pastor and elder to have them pray for healing. Both times we actually broke of the curse sent via witchcraft. Unfortunately, the coven knew when it was broken and resent the curse each time.

The couple gave up on healing and used a surrogate father. Later in time, one of the coven members got saved and filled us in on what had been going on in the coven and how they kept replacing the sterility curse. The problem was the open door that allowed the coven to keep replacing the curse. Some unrepented sin in Tony's life had left that doorway open to attack.

IMO Treat the root cause of the illness, not the symptoms. If you have to pray over what sin is causing the illness, do so.

Scripture clearly shows that illnesses can be sent because of sin. Rev 2 states that Yeshua himself will cast a Jezebel in the church into the sick bed to give her an importunity to repent. See major illness as a call to seek out what sin is being harbored in the individual's life.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

An Example of the "Always" and "Never" syndrome.

"It is the person who is ministering the healing prayer who needs to have the required faith. So, if a sick person does not get healed, it is the fault of the person praying, not the person being prayed for."

Not necessarily. We humans are always quick to "Assign blame", and pontificate about "whose FAULT" it was, or "Who did something improperly" when it doesn't go as planned.

The simple fact is that in MOST CASES of healing - it's a complete SURPRISE to both parties. Occasionally there's a "Word of Faith" in one to the people involved (the prayOR, or the PrayEE), but in the vast majority of cases there's no specific "Faith" anywhere - except a general faith in God's ABILITY to heal - as HE pleases. We Have all seen him do it, and we all know folks who SHOULD be dead, but aren't.

And it's not "ALWAYS" this way, and "NEVER" that way at all. It's how HE enables it to occur.

 

[dollarsbill]

An Example of the "Always" and "Never" syndrome.

"It is the person who is ministering the healing prayer who needs to have the required faith. So, if a sick person does not get healed, it is the fault of the person praying, not the person being prayed for."

Not necessarily. We humans are always quick to "Assign blame", and pontificate about "whose FAULT" it was, or "Who did something improperly" when it doesn't go as planned.

The simple fact is that in MOST CASES of healing - it's a complete SURPRISE to both parties. Occasionally there's a "Word of Faith" in one to the people involved (the prayOR, or the PrayEE), but in the vast majority of cases there's no specific "Faith" anywhere - except a general faith in God's ABILITY to heal - as HE pleases. We Have all seen him do it, and we all know folks who SHOULD be dead, but aren't.

And it's not "ALWAYS" this way, and "NEVER" that way at all. It's how HE enables it to occur.

Why would Christians be surprised that God does what He says He will do?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"Why would Christians be surprised that God does what He says He will do?"

Because in the VAST MAJORITY Of cases where folks are prayed for in churches that believe in and TEACH healing, and HEALING is the desired result of the prayer -

NOTHING HAPPENS!!!!

And it's just that simple.

Kathryn Kuhlman estimated that 2% of the folks that came to her meetings "received anything" overt. Over the last 50 years as a member of, and often a leader in Pentecostal and Charismatic Churches, I'd consider 2% to be "Optimistic".

 

[bred11six]

What do you make of it when a person has had a sickness for many years and has been struggling with pain - and is charismatic and asks continually for God's healing and it doesn't come?

I'm sort of in this situation as a family member of mine has been suffering for many years - and as a Charismatic Christian I have asked for God's miraculous healing but the answer seems to always be "no." In fact the condition has only gotten worse with time. I must say it has gotten frustrating - though I have never stopped asking the Lord for his healing...

I believe that when you asked God the first time He definitely heard you and He answered your prayer you just need to thank Him and praise Him for your healing. If you ask more than once than you didnt believe the first time. The devil knows you didnt believe cuz u kept on asking. Praise God for your healing because He has already healed you jus believe it!

 

[dollarsbill]

I believe that when you asked God the first time He definitely heard you and He answered your prayer you just need to thank Him and praise Him for your healing. If you ask more than once than you didnt believe the first time. The devil knows you didnt believe cuz u kept on asking. Praise God for your healing because He has already healed you jus believe it!

Mark 11:24 (NASB)
24 "Therefore I say to you, all things for which you pray and ask, believe that you have received them, and they will be granted you.

 

[Strong in Him]

My sister-in-law had cancer. She tried for healing many times. It was revealed that the reason she didn't get healed was because of unrepented sin in her life.

Exactly!
God can, and does, heal. We pray for healing, but we need to listen to what he is saying as we pray, and if someone isn't healed physically and immediately, we need to listen to what he is saying about that too.

GOD revealed that the lady didn't receive healing because of unrepentant sin - so when the sin was confessed, God healed. If God had revealed that unbelief, unhealthy practices or whatever were blocking, or preventing, healing, then God would have healed after they were dealt with.

The problem, in my experience, has been when physical healing wasn't granted immediately and other Christians gave their opinions as to why not - even if they were based on Scripture.

If someone says "it must be because of unrepentant sin", when they don't actually KNOW that it is - i.e God has not revealed that to them - it just causes guilt, introspection and maybe fear on the part of the sufferer. Far from helping and bringing health and wholeness, this actually brings more dis-ease; as well as the original symptoms, the sufferer now has guilt and condemnation to live with. Same with, "you haven't got enough faith". Those words would lead to change and life if they were spoken by the Lord himself, but not if it's just another Christian's opinion.
I had those words said to me a number of times - sometimes on this forum, but we won't go into that. They never, EVER helped, brought wholeness and led to faith and healing.

Bottom line - listen to what God is saying and what GOD reveals. His word brings life and wholeness. Though even then it may be in HIS time and not ours.

 

[dollarsbill]

There are definitely conditions to God's promises.

James 1:6-7 (NASB)
6 But he must ask in faith without any doubting, for the one who doubts is like the surf of the sea, driven and tossed by the wind. 7 For that man ought not to expect that he will receive anything from the Lord,

1 John 3:21-22 (NASB)
21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; 22 and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.

 

[Yahu]

Exactly!
God can, and does, heal. We pray for healing, but we need to listen to what he is saying as we pray, and if someone isn't healed physically and immediately, we need to listen to what he is saying about that too.

GOD revealed that the lady didn't receive healing because of unrepentant sin - so when the sin was confessed, God healed. If God had revealed that unbelief, unhealthy practices or whatever were blocking, or preventing, healing, then God would have healed after they were dealt with.

The problem, in my experience, has been when physical healing wasn't granted immediately and other Christians gave their opinions as to why not - even if they were based on Scripture.

If someone says "it must be because of unrepentant sin", when they don't actually KNOW that it is - i.e God has not revealed that to them - it just causes guilt, introspection and maybe fear on the part of the sufferer. Far from helping and bringing health and wholeness, this actually brings more dis-ease; as well as the original symptoms, the sufferer now has guilt and condemnation to live with. Same with, "you haven't got enough faith". Those words would lead to change and life if they were spoken by the Lord himself, but not if it's just another Christian's opinion.
I had those words said to me a number of times - sometimes on this forum, but we won't go into that. They never, EVER helped, brought wholeness and led to faith and healing.

Bottom line - listen to what God is saying and what GOD reveals. His word brings life and wholeness. Though even then it may be in HIS time and not ours.

Many times the sin is revealed but the sinner refuses the message (and may even attack the messenger). My other sister-in-law was a meddlesome busybody in other people's lives. IMO, she was the cause of the conflict within our family that my other sister-in-law was bitter and angry over. That sister-in-law refused to repent and claimed she was not in error. She was a Calvinist that claimed her actions were God's Will. She was trying to correct others without the authority to do so. Usurping authority is the broad definition of witchcraft and why 'Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft' and witchcraft carries a death penalty under the law of Yah. It took her two years to slowly die of breast cancer while she had people praying for her all over the world.

So both my sister-in-laws got cancer, breast and colon cancer. One lived, one died, both had much prayer for healing. It was the repentant one that got healed. It was the arrogant one that refused to admit fault that died.

What did Yeshua say to the lame man that was lowered before Him? "Your sins are forgiven." My understanding is that the forgiveness of sins is needed before healing can come.

Lu 5:19 And when they could not find by what way they might bring him in because of the multitude, they went upon the housetop, and let him down through the tiling with his couch into the midst before Jesus.
20 And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.
21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?
22 But when Jesus perceived their thoughts, he answering said unto them, What reason ye in your hearts?
23 Whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Rise up and walk?
24 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power upon earth to forgive sins, (he said unto the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house.
25 And immediately he rose up before them, and took up that whereon he lay, and departed to his own house, glorifying God.

 

[Simon Peter]

Many times the sin is revealed but the sinner refuses the message (and may even attack the messenger). My other sister-in-law was a meddlesome busybody in other people's lives. IMO, she was the cause of the conflict within our family that my other sister-in-law was bitter and angry over. That sister-in-law refused to repent and claimed she was not in error. She was a Calvinist that claimed her actions were God's Will. She was trying to correct others without the authority to do so. Usurping authority is the broad definition of witchcraft and why 'Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft' and witchcraft carries a death penalty under the law of Yah. It took her two years to slowly die of breast cancer while she had people praying for her all over the world.

So both my sister-in-laws got cancer, breast and colon cancer. One lived, one died, both had much prayer for healing. It was the repentant one that got healed. It was the arrogant one that refused to admit fault that died.

What did Yeshua say to the lame man that was lowered before Him? "Your sins are forgiven." My understanding is that the forgiveness of sins is needed before healing can come.

Lu 5:19 And when they could not find by what way they might bring him in because of the multitude, they went upon the housetop, and let him down through the tiling with his couch into the midst before Jesus.
20 And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.
21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?
22 But when Jesus perceived their thoughts, he answering said unto them, What reason ye in your hearts?
23 Whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Rise up and walk?
24 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power upon earth to forgive sins, (he said unto the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house.
25 And immediately he rose up before them, and took up that whereon he lay, and departed to his own house, glorifying God.

I'm sorry about the loss of your sister-in-law. If she was a Christian, she was not under the law and her sins were forgiven. You don't know the reason for her death.

There are many many evil and rebellious people in world, people who don't even acknowledge God, yet many live to a very old age, in health.


peace,
Simon

 

[Strong in Him]

Many times the sin is revealed but the sinner refuses the message (and may even attack the messenger). My other sister-in-law was a meddlesome busybody in other people's lives. IMO, she was the cause of the conflict within our family that my other sister-in-law was bitter and angry over. That sister-in-law refused to repent and claimed she was not in error.

That is very sad.
I wasn't disagreeing with you though; what I'm saying is that it's GOD who reveals sin - as opposed to another Christian trying to put that burden on you. When God reveals sin it is so that it may be forgiven, and the Christian, his child, cleansed and made whole. I can understand someone feeling angry, hurt or just disbelieving if their sin is revealed - especially if that revelation comes through another person. God still wants that person to repent; he doesn't cause pain or hurt for the fun of it, yet he allows the wrongdoer to reject him and refuse his correction. It must hurt him so much when we refuse to listen to his correction and refuse his forgiveness, but we still have that choice.

My emphasis though was on GOD revealing a sin or lack of faith, rather than another Christian just saying "I think this is your problem .......", but not really knowing for sure.

So both my sister-in-laws got cancer, breast and colon cancer. One lived, one died, both had much prayer for healing. It was the repentant one that got healed. It was the arrogant one that refused to admit fault that died.

Again, that is very sad.

What did Yeshua say to the lame man that was lowered before Him? "Your sins are forgiven." My understanding is that the forgiveness of sins is needed before healing can come.

Lu 5:19 And when they could not find by what way they might bring him in because of the multitude, they went upon the housetop, and let him down through the tiling with his couch into the midst before Jesus.
20 And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.
21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?
22 But when Jesus perceived their thoughts, he answering said unto them, What reason ye in your hearts?
23 Whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Rise up and walk?
24 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power upon earth to forgive sins, (he said unto the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house.
25 And immediately he rose up before them, and took up that whereon he lay, and departed to his own house, glorifying God.

And I'm not disagreeing with you! I'm saying that there is a difference between GOD revealing a sin, either directly or through another Christian, and a well meaning healer saying that a sufferer has unconfessed sin when they really may not know if that IS the case.

In my experience, all that does is create guilt, unworthiness and causes introspection - i.e "I haven't been healed, I must not be good enough yet" - and constant self examination to try to identify some sin that has not yet been confessed and dealt with.

 

[Yahu]

I'm sorry about the loss of your sister-in-law. If she was a Christian, she was not under the law and her sins were forgiven. You don't know the reason for her death.

There are many many evil and rebellious people in world, people who don't even acknowledge God, yet many live to a very old age, in health.

peace,
Simon

Not under the law? Sin IS the violation of the law! Without law, there is no sin. Without law, there is no need of a messiah. The eternal consequences of the law has been paid but the wages of sin is still death of the physical body. I'm not talking the social or ceremonial law for the nation of Israel. The moral law is still valid to everyone. The law is still our tutor to teach us what is sin but once we have the Holy Spirit to write the law on our hearts, we are to be led by the Spirit. Disobeying that leading is sin. Law, Torah, is 'instructions of Yah'.

Yes, many evil doers live long lives but any Christian that refuses to repent of sin that carries a death penalty can open the door to demonic attacks that can kill them. The enemy wants to lead Christians into error and kill us off. Why would they want to kill off the evil non-believers? Yah gives them longer to be able to repent out of His mercy.

The demonic realms are legalistic. If Yah declares a consequence to a given act, they have the RIGHT by His law to carry out those consequences. If the sin is repented of, they lose that right.

I have had major dealings with witchcraft in my past. A coven was trying to kill me. They couldn't get past the protection I was granted. I didn't have any sin that opened the door so they tried to lead me into a violation that would grant them access. Much of their activity was in trying to lead me into that error.

 

[Yahu]

That is very sad.
I wasn't disagreeing with you though; what I'm saying is that it's GOD who reveals sin - as opposed to another Christian trying to put that burden on you.

I wasn't disagreeing with you either. I was just explaining my understanding.

Yes, there are many that would accuse the sick with being in sin. It may be the reason they are sick but is it their calling to point out that error on their own? Is their motive self-righteousness, superiority?

IMO, it is the 'watchers on the walls' that sound the warning. Some listen and get to safety while others ignore the alarm and their blood is on their own heads. All those warning should be given under the guidance of the Holy Spirit and not given as pointing out the splinter in their brother's eye.

 

[Yahu]

I believe that when you asked God the first time He definitely heard you and He answered your prayer you just need to thank Him and praise Him for your healing. If you ask more than once than you didnt believe the first time. The devil knows you didnt believe cuz u kept on asking. Praise God for your healing because He has already healed you jus believe it!

That is WOF doctrine. This is a non-word of Faith forum. Are you in the right forum?

Yah can answer the prayer the first time with "NO". We have to 'seek the kingdom of Yah FIRST, THEN all these things will be ... Even Paul had an unresolved 'thorn in his side' that was never taken away.

 

[Strong in Him]

I wasn't disagreeing with you either. I was just explaining my understanding.

Ok, sorry.

Yes, there are many that would accuse the sick with being in sin. It may be the reason they are sick but is it their calling to point out that error on their own? Is their motive self-righteousness, superiority?

IMO, it is the 'watchers on the walls' that sound the warning. Some listen and get to safety while others ignore the alarm and their blood is on their own heads. All those warning should be given under the guidance of the Holy Spirit and not given as pointing out the splinter in their brother's eye.

Good post.

 

[Strong in Him]

If you ask more than once than you didnt believe the first time. The devil knows you didnt believe cuz u kept on asking.

Really?
So why did Jesus tell a parable about a persistent widow to teach us that we should always pray and not give up? (Luke 18:1)
Why did he say, "ask and it will be given to you, seek and you will find". "Seek" means look for, hunt for, search; it implies a long process. He could have said, "ask once and you will receive it immediately; don't seek just expect to see, and get, everything immediately."

When the Syro-Phonecian woman asked Jesus to heal her daughter, he effectively ignored her, then almost insulted her but she aked a third time and that was when he commended her for her faith.

When Jesus healed a certain blind man he put mud on his eyes - the man saw some things but they were indistinct and blurred. Jesus then put more mud on his eyes and prayed again.

It is not a sin to persevere in prayer and ask more than once; it is commended. In fact, in the OT Elijah prayed 7 times for rain (1 Kings 18:41-44)

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"what does it mean " God cannot be glorified in sickness"?

It means that "My paradigm about how God has to perform for me doesn't ALLOW any possibility that SICKNESS could possibly part of HIS plan for ME".

Simple as that.

 

[Yahu]

"what does it mean " God cannot be glorified in sickness"?

It means that "My paradigm about how God has to perform for me doesn't ALLOW any possibility that SICKNESS could possibly part of HIS plan for ME".

Simple as that.

Then I suggest you actually read the Old Testament about how He sent plagues upon His own people for disobedience.