When healing doesn't come

[Biblicist]

It means that "My paradigm about how God has to perform for me doesn't ALLOW any possibility that SICKNESS could possibly part of HIS plan for ME".

As Yahu mentioned, God has certainly well documented in the OT how he not only sent sickness upon his people but also with how he physically destroyed those who rebelled against him. Even though this is referring to the old Covenant, it does show us that God will decisively deal with wickedness, not only with the world but with those with whom he is covenant with.

When we move to the NT, we see very early how the Father dealt with Ananias and Sapphira and in a very public manner. In 1Co 11 Paul tells us in 1Co 11:29-31 that some have died due to undealt with sin;

For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31 But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment.
​

But I will agree with you that SICKNESS could not possibly be a part of HIS plan for YOU (or me) as this would make little if any sense; what certainly can happen is that we can allow sickness to enter into our lives by allowing sin to remain within us which is the point of 1Co 11:29-31; this is the outcome of the plans of man and not God.

If this does happen to us or that maybe we simply catch an unavoidable bug, we are told in Eph 5:14 to approach the elders of the Church for prayer and we have sinned and repent then we will be healed.

 

[Yahu]

As Yahu mentioned, God has certainly well documented in the OT how he not only sent sickness upon his people but also with how he physically destroyed those who rebelled against him. Even though this is referring to the old Covenant, it does show us that God will decisively deal with wickedness, not only with the world but with those with whom he is covenant with.

When we move to the NT, we see very early how the Father dealt with Ananias and Sapphira and in a very public manner. In 1Co 11 Paul tells us in 1Co 11:29-31 that some have died due to undealt with sin;

For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31 But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment.
​

But I will agree with you that SICKNESS could not possibly be a part of HIS plan for YOU (or me) as this would make little if any sense; what certainly can happen is that we can allow sickness to enter into our lives by allowing sin to remain within us which is the point of 1Co 11:29-31; this is the outcome of the plans of man and not God.

If this does happen to us or that maybe we simply catch an unavoidable bug, we are told in Eph 5:14 to approach the elders of the Church for prayer and we have sinned and repent then we will be healed.

Let's not forget the judgement on Jezebel in Rev 2. She is cast into the sick bed, her follower into tribulation and her children killed by death. That is a Jezebel WITHIN the church. That judgement is directed by Yeshua Himself! I have seen this happen. The bible college I attended was run by a female pastor that was a major Jezebel. She had total kidney failure. Another time she almost died by a black widow bite.

Sin in your life can result in sickness. It opens the doors to spiritual attacks that can cause many things. I personally developed gout after being in conflict with a coven and suffered from it for many years. I was healed of it and the minister that did the healing saw a spirit attacked to my lower back over my kidney and 5 bands of darkness around me that he saw as sent via witchcraft. He knew nothing about my background.

Old Covenant verses New Covenant is irrelevant. Yah is the same, yesterday, today and forever. Yes we can get out from under any curse with repentance. That is the only difference. For example in the Old Testament, a witch was to be put to death. In the new covenant the spirits can be cast out by the authority granted to us. Old Testament saints didn't have the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

 

[tobethebest]

My wife has been chronically ill for over ten years. She is in constant pain and cries often. Her calves and feet blow up to enormous sizes at least once a month and prior to her appointment to the doctor it usually goes away. The fibromyalgia is continuous as is the pain to all parts of her body. We have answers to none of it and have separated ourselves from the word of faith teaching and much of the "ask, seek, knock" literature we have read over the years. All of my Christian friends from as far back as thirty years ago, haven't an answer to pain, only the same messages we have heard over and over again. I was an usher for Kathryn Kuhlman and I am living proof that the wind of the Spirit of God was mighty then. I miss her and her ministry very much.

 

[tobethebest]

Your response "When there's nothing left to do, and nowhere to go, then you "Surrender" to the prevailing conditions, and just keep on keeping on." makes more sense to me than any WOF ask, seek, knock, Copelandism. Why when the sick know that there is nothing left to do and NOWHERE ELSE to go, are they forced to keep on keeping on? Why does my wife continue to suffer after years on bended knees and wasted tears that would flood heaven? How does God benefit from that? Of what benefit is it to her? or us? Neither of us can stand to read WOF literature and we know that we know that no one has the answer 'cept Christ. What, dear God, is He waiting for? repentance? lol ........forgiveness of some person unknown to us? lol......tithing? lol............."Permissive sin" is causing it?(as Kenneth Hagin calls it) lol, lol. All we know is only "Jesus has the words of eternal life." There is nowhere else to go. So we are here waiting and waiting and waiting on the Lord........................

 

[rockytopva]

Here are the steps that Dodie Osteen took towards healing.

Dodie Osteen's Healing Testimony - YouTube

 

[Yahu]

My wife has been chronically ill for over ten years. She is in constant pain and cries often. Her calves and feet blow up to enormous sizes at least once a month and prior to her appointment to the doctor it usually goes away. The fibromyalgia is continuous as is the pain to all parts of her body. We have answers to none of it and have separated ourselves from the word of faith teaching and much of the "ask, seek, knock" literature we have read over the years. All of my Christian friends from as far back as thirty years ago, haven't an answer to pain, only the same messages we have heard over and over again. I was an usher for Kathryn Kuhlman and I am living proof that the wind of the Spirit of God was mighty then. I miss her and her ministry very much.

I am not WoF. What I suggest is to seek Yeshua about the root cause of the illness and get her to repent of the cause. Then try for healing. Use the illness as an indication that there is some error that needs to be overcome.

My own sister-in-law was cured of colon cancer. She had been harboring anger and bitterness. Once she repented, she was able to be healed. All healing attempts before hand failed.

I also had a very painful medical condition that was caused by a curse sent via witchcraft. I developed gout. Deliverance from that curse cured my kidney issue. Gout is a symptom and can be caused by a kidney issue. It has taken years for the excess uric acid to flush from my body but my kidneys are working to do so.

So I would also recommend the breaking off of any curses sent against her especially if she ever came into conflict against anyone involved in witchcraft. In my case, I helped get an entire coven sent to prison over 20 years ago. It took a long time for the gout to develop by building up excess uric acid in my body.

 

[Yahu]

Your response "When there's nothing left to do, and nowhere to go, then you "Surrender" to the prevailing conditions, and just keep on keeping on." makes more sense to me than any WOF ask, seek, knock, Copelandism. Why when the sick know that there is nothing left to do and NOWHERE ELSE to go, are they forced to keep on keeping on? Why does my wife continue to suffer after years on bended knees and wasted tears that would flood heaven? How does God benefit from that? Of what benefit is it to her? or us? Neither of us can stand to read WOF literature and we know that we know that no one has the answer 'cept Christ. What, dear God, is He waiting for? repentance? lol ........forgiveness of some person unknown to us? lol......tithing? lol............."Permissive sin" is causing it?(as Kenneth Hagin calls it) lol, lol. All we know is only "Jesus has the words of eternal life." There is nowhere else to go. So we are here waiting and waiting and waiting on the Lord........................

Well there is some sin that will get a women cast into the sick bed. Is she manipulative, controlling and in rebellion against a husband's authority? Is she arrogant believing her ways are superior? Is she self-righteous? Is she a meddlesome busybody in the matters of other people's lives? Does she punish others that don't do as she wishes even though they are not under her authority? Does she pray prayers of imposing her will onto other people's lives? Does she use bribery or barter or seduction to get what she wants? Does she use gossip to punish? Those attributes will get a women cast into a sick bed until she repents.

I have seen many Jezebels cast into the sick bed. I understand the full range of attributes associated with that error. I knew a high priestess of Ashtoreth many years ago. I have seen women that had a subset of her attributes cast into the sick bed many times. One of my sister-in-laws died of it. She refused to repent or even admit error up until the end.

You and your wife need to do some serious self-examination. She won't get healing unless she roots out the cause. Something opened the door to the attack. Speaking it away with WoF doctrine is pointless if the root cause is not dealt with. The roots of bitterness have to be dealt with.

 

[Strong in Him]

Well there is some sin that will get a women cast into the sick bed.

Woah, hold on a minute.
This is a generalisation, is not Scriptural and I don't think is fair.

If God has revealed to someone - healer or sufferer - that the cause of illness is a specific sin, then of course that needs dealing with, and when it has been, then healing will come. Sin CAN be the cause of a specific illness - but it is also very possible that someone might be sick simply because we live in a fallen, imperfect world.

It can't be the case that sin leads to sickness and all sickness is healed by repentance, otherwise ALL non Christians, unrepentant criminals and so on would be terminally ill, and all Christians would be in perfect health, or restored to perfect health after confession.

In John chapter 9 Jesus was questionned on this very point, in fact; the disciples said, "who sinned - this man or his parents?" Jesus' answer was "no one".

I know from experience that implying that a person with a chronic illness is that way because of sin, is not nice, is hurtful and causes the person to put their eyes on themselves, ("what have I done? Why am I so bad? etc) rather than on God. It can also burden the sufferer with feelings of guilt, worthlessness and condemnation - and they/we don't need that on top of struggles with physical symptoms.

Is she manipulative, controlling and in rebellion against a husband's authority? Is she arrogant believing her ways are superior? Is she self-righteous? Is she a meddlesome busybody in the matters of other people's lives? Does she punish others that don't do as she wishes even though they are not under her authority? Does she pray prayers of imposing her will onto other people's lives? Does she use bribery or barter or seduction to get what she wants? Does she use gossip to punish? Those attributes will get a women cast into a sick bed until she repents.

Again, that is a generalisation, not true and rather judgemental. It is for God to reveal the cause - if there is one - of a sickness; not for us to speculate.

I have seen many Jezebels cast into the sick bed. I understand the full range of attributes associated with that error. I knew a high priestess of Ashtoreth many years ago. I have seen women that had a subset of her attributes cast into the sick bed many times. One of my sister-in-laws died of it. She refused to repent or even admit error up until the end.

And I have heard of many non Christians, cult members and so on; people who either try to live a good life without God or who openly reject or defy him who are perfectly healthy - while world famous evangelists like David Watson have died of cancer.

You and your wife need to do some serious self-examination. She won't get healing unless she roots out the cause. Something opened the door to the attack. Speaking it away with WoF doctrine is pointless if the root cause is not dealt with. The roots of bitterness have to be dealt with.

NO.

The forummer in question, and his wife, need to be reassured that God loves them both very much; that sickness is not a punishment for sin, Jesus paid the price for their sin on the cross; that NOTHING can ever separate them from God's love; that they are accepted by God, adopted as his children and belong to him. I believe that the the Lord wants everyone to be whole; saved, healed and physically well. I believe also that he knows what they are going through physically, can deal with their hurt, confusion, maybe even anger, and wants them to be able to express that to him so that their relationship might be even deeper.

If they, or anyone else, were to ask God directly if a sickness has a specific cause or is due to a certain event, then I am certain that God would reveal that to them. But equally, he might say nothing on the subject, and in that case it would be wrong to teach, or assume, that they are sick because they sinned.

 

[Optimax]

When healing doesn't come


I would ask a question.

Could it simply be that when healing does not come.

1 Cor 13:9
For we know in part , and we prophesy in part . KJV

1 Cor 13:12
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part ; but then shall I know even as also I am known. KJV


Perhaps the "part" we know is just not enough?

 

[Yahu]

Woah, hold on a minute.
This is a generalisation, is not Scriptural and I don't think is fair.

There is a big difference between fairness and justice.

Rev 2:22 behold, I cast her into a bed, and those that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her works,
23 and her children will I kill with death; and all the assemblies shall know that *I* am he that searches the reins and the hearts; and I will give to you each according to your works.

Ga 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption;


1Co 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep (ie die).

It is clear in scripture that following after sin will bring corruption, sickness and death.

 

[Yahu]

It can't be the case that sin leads to sickness and all sickness is healed by repentance, otherwise ALL non Christians, unrepentant criminals and so on would be terminally ill, and all Christians would be in perfect health, or restored to perfect health after confession.

Nonsense! Christians are not without sin! They just have the eternal consequences covered by the blood. That isn't a license to continue in sin that grace may abound.

In John chapter 9 Jesus was questionned on this very point, in fact; the disciples said, "who sinned - this man or his parents?" Jesus' answer was "no one".

In that case, no it wasn't due to sin. Are you implying that is ALWAYS the case?

I know from experience that implying that a person with a chronic illness is that way because of sin, is not nice, is hurtful and causes the person to put their eyes on themselves, ("what have I done? Why am I so bad? etc) rather than on God. It can also burden the sufferer with feelings of guilt, worthlessness and condemnation - and they/we don't need that on top of struggles with physical symptoms.

Irrelevant. Major illness should be a call for self examination.

Again, that is a generalisation, not true and rather judgemental. It is for God to reveal the cause - if there is one - of a sickness; not for us to speculate.

Agreed, it should get the individual in that illness to seek Yah to find the source of the illness. Often it can be revealed via a word of knowledge.

And I have heard of many non Christians, cult members and so on; people who either try to live a good life without God or who openly reject or defy him who are perfectly healthy - while world famous evangelists like David Watson have died of cancer.

Of course, if non-believers die, they lose the chance to repent. Yah extends them extra time to give them an opportunity to seek Him. That isn't the case with a Christian that should already know better.

I have seen those involved in witchcraft given PROOF that Yah was real and more powerful then their witchcraft. Those that still refused to repent died brutally. Fortunately most of them did repent in prison. They were given a warning, then had His wrath fall on them, if they still didn't repent, they died.

The forummer in question, and his wife, need to be reassured that God loves them both very much; that sickness is not a punishment for sin, Jesus paid the price for their sin on the cross; that NOTHING can ever separate them from God's love; that they are accepted by God, adopted as his children and belong to him. I believe that the the Lord wants everyone to be whole; saved, healed and physically well. I believe also that he knows what they are going through physically, can deal with their hurt, confusion, maybe even anger, and wants them to be able to express that to him so that their relationship might be even deeper.

Yet if they fall into error that harms other children of Yah, expect to be cast into the sick bed or die.

 

[Strong in Him]

There is a big difference between fairness and justice.

Rev 2:22 behold, I cast her into a bed, and those that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her works,
23 and her children will I kill with death; and all the assemblies shall know that *I* am he that searches the reins and the hearts; and I will give to you each according to your works.

Ga 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption;


1Co 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep (ie die).

It is clear in scripture that following after sin will bring corruption, sickness and death.

If it did, then everyone who sinned - and especially all non Christians who sin and don't know God - would be ill.

It is NOT the case that every Christian who has an illness has it because they sinned.

 

[Strong in Him]

Nonsense! Christians are not without sin! They just have the eternal consequences covered by the blood. That isn't a license to continue in sin that grace may abound.

I never said it was.
Jesus died for our sins so that we might be reconciled to the Father. If we confess and repent, we are forgiven - no condemnation. That doesn't mean we can never be ill again.

In that case, no it wasn't due to sin. Are you implying that is ALWAYS the case?

Not at all, but it seems that you are.

A forummer writes of how his wife has suffered chronic illness for 10 years and is in pain; you fired off a series of wuestions about her attitudes and the sin she may have committed, and then suggested to this man that he and his wife had some "serious self examination" to do. It seems to me that you are certainly implying that her illness is because she has sinned in some way.
I don't agree at all.

Irrelevant. Major illness should be a call for self examination.

Only if God tells you that this is what you need to do. You can't assume that the cause of chronic or serious uillness is always sin. I know from my own life that this is not the case. I have also read testimonies from people who were told this very thing, became introspective, began examimining themselves and confessing everything they could think of to confess, and STILL remained ill.

Agreed, it should get the individual in that illness to seek Yah to find the source of the illness. Often it can be revealed via a word of knowledge.

And often the cause is not spiritual at all and can be revealed by the doctors.

Of course, if non-believers die, they lose the chance to repent. Yah extends them extra time to give them an opportunity to seek Him.

Yes but what I was saying was that if you told a non Christian that they had cancer because they were a sinner, all they needed to do to be healed was to repent and come to God and it was guaranteed that they would need no more treatment and would not die - that person would almost certainly do that straight away. I.E, if you're linking sickness and sin; those who continue in sin will become ill, and should send for an evangelist rather than a doctor.

I have seen those involved in witchcraft given PROOF that Yah was real and more powerful then their witchcraft. Those that still refused to repent died brutally.

I'm not disputing that; I wasn't talking about witchcraft. I was disagreeing with the respense you gave to a post about chronic illness - which seemed to be basically, "examine yourselves, you or your wife have sinned". That's what I disagree with. It might be true, but it's not automatically so.

Yet if they fall into error that harms other children of Yah, expect to be cast into the sick bed or die.

Again, that is not always the case, and I disagree with the view that an illness is caused by a specific sin.

I had M.E. for 18 years. I am pretty sure I know what triggered it - a combination of stress, virus, hepatitis b injections on an immune system already weakened by allergies and recent surgery. There was no specific sin involved. I had not backslidden, fallen away or embraced witchcraft.
After 18 years, almost to the day, my symptoms vanished overnight after someone prayed. Although it wasn't so much a prayer, just the words "I want to heal you". I didn't even take them seriously.
I did nothing differently; didn't change my diet, take vitamins or new medication, I didn't memorise any new Scriptures or healing verses, and wasn't convicted of some new, or forgotten, sin.

This illness was physical in origin and it was healed supernaturally by God without any effort, or even knowledge, on my part.

 

[tobethebest]

My wife has been chronically ill for over ten years. She suffers from severe fibromyalgia and with it comes other complications; swelling of her ankles and feet to twice their size, pain from head to feet ranging from one to ten, hers is a twelve. She cries to God, prays on her knees in the bedroom, tears fall from her face the size of coins. We both love the Lord. I must say that the eight years I spent in "word of faith" doctrine has gone in the garbage can years ago. As an usher for Kathryn Kuhlman I experienced the demonstration of the power of God by the wind of the Spirit of God flooding the very spot I stood. I know that I know that Christ can heal. We have had enough of agonixing suffering and whatever lessons my wife and I are being taught because of this affliction has been diluted to the point of being nonexistent. We want it now, not tomorrow, not next week, not next year, NOW. If we ask for a loaf of bread would he give us a stone? All other scriptural lessons at this point are nearly shelved for the want of healing. Nothing else will do. Nothing else will suffice. Nothing.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

My wife has been chronically ill for over ten years. She suffers from severe fibromyalgia and with it comes other complications; swelling of her ankles and feet to twice their size, pain from head to feet ranging from one to ten, hers is a twelve. She cries to God, prays on her knees in the bedroom, tears fall from her face the size of coins. We both love the Lord. I must say that the eight years I spent in "word of faith" doctrine has gone in the garbage can years ago. As an usher for Kathryn Kuhlman I experienced the demonstration of the power of God by the wind of the Spirit of God flooding the very spot I stood. I know that I know that Christ can heal. We have had enough of agonixing suffering and whatever lessons my wife and I are being taught because of this affliction has been diluted to the point of being nonexistent. We want it now, not tomorrow, not next week, not next year, NOW. If we ask for a loaf of bread would he give us a stone? All other scriptural lessons at this point are nearly shelved for the want of healing. Nothing else will do. Nothing else will suffice. Nothing.

I think your wife has suffered from this long enough. You are very close to this emotionally, and this can hinder faith. You need someone who can be more "clinical" to minister the words of faith to you. My belief is that when I minister healing, it is on the basis of my faith, rather than the faith (or lack of it) of the sick person. I have been commanded by the Lord to minister to every person with a medical condition who comes across my path, and you have now come across my path.

Jesus never messed around with sickness. He never asked the Father to heal people because He knew that the Father has already anointed Him to heal the sick. So He healed the sick on His own authority. Often all He said was "you are healed" and they were. Sometimes, as in the case of the man born blind in John 9, all He told the man to do was to wash the clay out of his eyes, and when the man did, he came back seeing.

So, I cast the spirit of infirmity out of your wife. I say that she is totally healed. I say that in the Name of Jesus as His representative. She is healed through my faith in His Name, and I am trusting completely in the Holy Spirit to bring that healing in reality. I quote 1 Peter 2:24, "By the stripes of Jesus she has been healed", to show that the devil is totally defeated and his works in your wife are totally destroy from this moment on.

We now wait in hope for the Holy Spirit to do the work that God has promised would be done as the result of believing His Word.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Well there is some sin that will get a women cast into the sick bed. Is she manipulative, controlling and in rebellion against a husband's authority? Is she arrogant believing her ways are superior? Is she self-righteous? Is she a meddlesome busybody in the matters of other people's lives? Does she punish others that don't do as she wishes even though they are not under her authority? Does she pray prayers of imposing her will onto other people's lives? Does she use bribery or barter or seduction to get what she wants? Does she use gossip to punish? Those attributes will get a women cast into a sick bed until she repents.

I have seen many Jezebels cast into the sick bed. I understand the full range of attributes associated with that error. I knew a high priestess of Ashtoreth many years ago. I have seen women that had a subset of her attributes cast into the sick bed many times. One of my sister-in-laws died of it. She refused to repent or even admit error up until the end.

You and your wife need to do some serious self-examination. She won't get healing unless she roots out the cause. Something opened the door to the attack. Speaking it away with WoF doctrine is pointless if the root cause is not dealt with. The roots of bitterness have to be dealt with.

If you read the Gospels, you will see that nowhere did Jesus ever take this attitude towards sick people. He did not care about the causes, and He never delved into them. In John 9 someone asked him about whose sin caused the man to be born blind, and He said that no-one's sin caused it. That shows the attitude toward Jesus toward sickness.

His answer to sickness was to remove it from the person.

You are being like Job's friends who accused him of sin because of his misfortunes when we know that it had nothing to do with him at all.

You may need to repent of adding to this poor woman's suffering by accusing her of sin. It never has been, nor ever will be Jesus' way. You are putting yourself in danger of her condition coming upon you, because she could pray to God that the curse you have put on her to return to you. You need to get right with God and then withdraw your accusation (the curse). I didn't think of that when I started this post, but it came to me, and I believe it is a warning from the Holy Spirit for you.

I have now dealt with her sickness the way Jesus would have dealt with it, and the way that the Holy Spirit has instructed me to deal with it today. I cast out that spirit of infirmity and I believe that the Holy Spirit will back me up as God has promised. The Word says that "they shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover". If the husband lays his hands on his wife now, the Holy Spirit will back him up and bring total healing to his wife.

Concerning the "weak and sickly" state of people in the Corinthian church, this was because they did not discern the Lord's body; in other words they did not acknowledge that the eating of the communion bread was for physical healing.

 

[MikeBigg]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th601d6s66o