When Exactly Is the Rapture?

lecoop · Jan 19, 2006

frankDH said:
There area lot of opinions here. I am post trib.

Does everyone here agree that the purpose of the rapture is for Christ to retrieve his bride?

Frank

FrankDH! How nice to see you again! Welcome! I have been wanting to ask you some things. Yes, I almost agree - the purpose of the rapture is for Christ to retrieve his body. (There will be some argument with those that think the city is the bride!)

Coop

lecoop · Jan 19, 2006

L0U said:
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At this point I would say yes. And also of interest, it is at this point when Michael will "stand still" in his defense of Israel. (Daniel 12:1) And satan will be cast out of heaven to persecute the woman (Israel) and the remnant (the church) of her seed (Christ). (Revelation 12, Galations 3).

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It should be obvious the Jesus Christ IS the Lord.
It also should be obvious to us the 'the day of Christ' and the Day of the Lord' and 'the Day of the Lord Jesus Christ' are all speaking of the same day.

Paul knew this:
"So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ."

It is JESUS Who 'comes as a thief' at the Day of the Lord which 'comes as a thief in the night'.

Yes, I will agree that Jesus the Christ is also our Lord. But if these two "names" mean the same thing, Paul could have just said "Day of the Lord." Therefore, it seems that there must be a difference. It seems to me that the "day of Christ" is the single, 24 hour day that Jesus returns, while the "day of the Lord" is a more extended period of time, perhaps started at the 6th seal, and continuing for the entire week, and one into the millenium. I would think that the great battle of Armageddon would be included in that "day of the Lord."

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The Day of the Lord is to be preceded by the cosmic disturbence noted by the Lord as occuring 'After the tribulation (i.e., 'great tribulation', verses 15-21) of those days'.

So you are saying things will be in this order:
1. great tribulation
2. Cosmic signs
3. Day of the Lord.

What about the cosmic signs that happen at the sixth seal, before the 70th week even starts? If you (for a moment) ignore Jesus timing of the cosmic signs, then you have this order:
1. Cosmic signs
2. Day of the Lord - concurrent with 70th week
3. End of the week
4. More cosmic signs! (These signs actually happen twice - before the week and after the week!)
5. Jesus returns.

Jesus and Paul taught the very same sequence of events concerning the coming of the Lord.

1.) Apostacy (Matthew 24:9-12)
2.) Coming of the man of sin (Matthew 24:15-20)
3.) Great tribulation by anti-Christ (Matthew 24:15-26)
4.) The Day of the Lord (Matthew 24:27-31)

This was the very same sequence that was held to in the early church.

Although I'm sure that anti-Christ would like people to believe that the great tribulation by his hand is the Day of the Lord, it is NOT. Jesus Christ ALONE will be exalted in the Day of the Lord.

Comments welcome
Coop

frankDH · Jan 19, 2006

lecoop said:
FrankDH! How nice to see you again! Welcome! I have been wanting to ask you some things. Yes, I almost agree - the purpose of the rapture is for Christ to retrieve his body. (There will be some argument with those that think the city is the bride!)

Coop

Hey Coop. Nice to see you again. What questions?

Frank

exodus19 · Jan 21, 2006

What about the cosmic signs that happen at the sixth seal, before the 70th week even starts? If you (for a moment) ignore Jesus timing of the cosmic signs, then you have this order:
1. Cosmic signs
2. Day of the Lord - concurrent with 70th week
3. End of the week
4. More cosmic signs! (These signs actually happen twice - before the week and after the week!)
5. Jesus returns.

THIS IS MOST ACCURATE OF ALL PROPOSITIONS

Amidst the throne is the lion of Judah, who is messiah, rev 22:16 is the same is the root of David who is prophetically written in at the beginning of Rev for he has the seven seals and then the angels too are speaking during the week of 'judgement' which is to say the 70th week.

This is as i have said elsewhere 'heaven' since, wherever the son is and the angels are gathered so then is there heaven.

are you following this?
As written 2000 years ago the same applied to Jesus , the kingdom of God is at hand when the son is present as the Word of God, the same Word of God is present as said in Rev 19;13 which confirms the same person or messiah as in 11:19.

the son on the white horse 19:11 is the same who is the child birthed with from the women coming out ot the heavens at 11;19
the same is the women 'crown of 12 stars' as confirms 19:14. then also elsewhere ch 21 as well.

you guys never respond or comment to these points i make. .....wonder why.?????

A Brother In Christ · Jan 21, 2006

exodus19 said:
2. Day of the Lord - concurrent with 70th week

rapture happens ..1 thes 4:16-17

1 thes 5:2 ...day of the Lord...

2 PETER 3:10 But the day of the Lord ....the element shall melt with fervant heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

The day of the Lord is not a single day but aleast 1007 years long...7 rs of trib plus 1000 yr reign

exodus19 · Jan 21, 2006

A Brother In Christ said:
rapture happens ..1 thes 4:16-17

1 thes 5:2 ...day of the Lord...

2 PETER 3:10 But the day of the Lord ....the element shall melt with fervant heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

The day of the Lord is not a single day but aleast 1007 years long...7 rs of trib plus 1000 yr reign

though is says in the i belive it's chronicles that one day is likened to 1000 years is not exactly the same as making it the total of. For whether you are with God for one day , the same as if you are with him a thousand years is b/c you are in the kingdom either way.
where the son is, so is the kingdom.
The same for the coming of the new jerusalem and the saints, as in the kingdom. one day in the kingdom is the same as 1000 years b/c the same Holy spirit pervades in the kingdom.
it implies the spiritual andnot really a time or physical application.

the basis for my answer is there is no such thing as time in the kingdom of God, there is always light, no darkness, in eternal character.

got it?

the verse that peter quoted came from the OT , and it implies the the last week only in that the world and the beasts are defeated ie burnt up by the fire of the Lord which melts the works of the devils ie evil ones, and that is that day.
Gos said in the OT is not my fire greater than theirs, implying the heathen cultures that the jews, were running off to go and serve, basically idolatry , or cultures of Assyrian types or forms of hinduism.

so God was a jealous god for this reason that his own left him committing adultry or going off awhoring, with the not god, or wooden god nations.

A Brother In Christ · Jan 21, 2006

exodus19 said:
though is says in the i belive it's chronicles that one day is likened to 1000 years is not exactly the same as making it the total of. For whether you are with God for one day , the same as if you are with him a thousand years is b/c you are in the kingdom either way.

2 peter 3:8, psalms 90:4

this is where there is no time... but here on earth is time..

when does 1 thes 5:2 happen right after the rapture ..is the day of the Lord
when does 2 peter 3:10 happen when the earth is burned up ...1007 year long day

Day of God is after the 1000yr reign 2 peter 3:12
day of Jesus Christ ..phil 1:6..rapture
we are in the day of man 1 cor 4:3
day of wrath ..romans 2:5

notice that the day of wrath and the day of the Lord going on during a simular period yet not exactly the same time

where the son is, so is the kingdom.
The same for the coming of the new jerusalem and the saints, as in the kingdom. one day in the kingdom is the same as 1000 years b/c the same Holy spirit pervades in the kingdom.
it implies the spiritual andnot really a time or physical application.

the basis for my answer is there is no such thing as time in the kingdom of God, there is always light, no darkness, in eternal character.

got it?

yet is the question of rev 20...why is a thousand years repeated six times? literally a thousand years!

the verse that peter quoted came from the OT , and it implies the the last week only in that the world and the beasts are defeated ie burnt up by the fire of the Lord which melts the works of the devils ie evil ones, and that is that day.
Gos said in the OT is not my fire greater than theirs, implying the heathen cultures that the jews, were running off to go and serve, basically idolatry , or cultures of Assyrian types or forms of hinduism.

so God was a jealous god for this reason that his own left him committing adultry or going off awhoring, with the not god, or wooden god nations.

???
your point?

exodus19 · Jan 22, 2006

A Brother In Christ said:
2 peter 3:8, psalms 90:4

this is where there is no time... but here on earth is time..

when does 1 thes 5:2 happen right after the rapture ..is the day of the Lord
when does 2 peter 3:10 happen when the earth is burned up ...1007 year long day

Day of God is after the 1000yr reign 2 peter 3:12
day of Jesus Christ ..phil 1:6..rapture
we are in the day of man 1 cor 4:3
day of wrath ..romans 2:5

notice that the day of wrath and the day of the Lord going on during a simular period yet not exactly the same time

yet is the question of rev 20...why is a thousand years repeated six times? literally a thousand years!???
your point?

ok i have just seen this comment , i have to go now , i'll try findd some space to make notes and return some answer later.

have a nice day!

bertie · Jan 22, 2006

Do anybody think that out of one in a million or three saints that will be eligable to take part in the mini first rapture of Jesus saints and Holy Ones they are one of them?That they are at present actually Holy enough to presume?//???
For that matter,how many of the 144000 odd Holy ones,that there are any left alive still?or are they all ready and waiting for their crowns?

DeirdreB · Jan 22, 2006

bertie said:
Do anybody think that out of one in a million or three saints that will be eligable to take part in the mini first rapture of Jesus saints and Holy Ones they are one of them? ...

Could someone first show me scriptural proof that there is a mini rapture or as some would like to refer to it as 2 raptures? And please do not quote scripture that talks about how we are raptured (i.e. theif in the night, twinkling of an eye, etc).

I personally do not care if Jesus told me to get on a greyhound bus, I just want to be with Him. What I am asking is for someone to reference scripture that speaks specifically about when the rapture takes place and if possible point me to scripture that suggests there will be two raptures.

Thanks and God Bless,
Deirdre

good4u · Feb 3, 2006

ForeverSaved said:
According to Rev. 3.10, only those Christians who keep the word of His patience will be raptured before the Tribulation.

"Because thou didst keep the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of trial, that [hour] which is to come upon the whole world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." (Rev. 3.10).

When do we see the rapture? Before the trumpets start in Revelation 8.

"...stood before the throne" (Rev. 7.9).

This is a vision of the raptured ones from which they first commence to enter into 3rd heaven before the trumpets of the Tribulation.

When are the Christians who are "left" (Matt. 24.40-41) to be raptured?

"...at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible..." (1 Cor. 15.52).

Do you see the picture of trumpets from the first rapture to the rapture at the 7th trumpet?

Lord may others see this truth also and stop arguing with each other. There ought to be noone here who will argue with this truth, so before posting please humble yourselves by the grace of God before.

No, you are in error. It is NOT the 7th trumpet -- that is during the Day of the Lord and believers are already GONE from earth. You misinterpret Scripture, as so many on this board do.

When are believers raptured? When the sun is darkened and the moon turns red as if it were blood...read what Jesus says in Matthew 24...He should know, don't you think?

holdon · Feb 3, 2006

good4u said:
When are believers raptured? When the sun is darkened and the moon turns red as if it were blood...read what Jesus says in Matthew 24...He should know, don't you think?

Well, I'll continue to argue for the truth as well....

Here is what I read in Mt 24:

24:29 But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.
24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the land lament, and they shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the one extremity of the heavens to the other extremity of them.

So, we see that the Son of man comes immediately after the great tribulation (see verse 21). Also, we know from Col. 3:4 that we will come with Him when that happens. Equally we see that in Rev. 19:14 the armies in fine linen (compare with 19:8) follow Him out of heaven. Also, Zecharia prophesied the same in Zech 14:5.

Anyway.... the saints must already be with Him when He comes out of heaven in Mt. 24:30. How do they get to be with Him: through the rapture. See 1 Thess 4:16,17

So, who are these elect that the angels will gather from the 4 winds? These are believing Israelites. They will be gathered into their land:

Zech 14:9 And Jehovah shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Jehovah, and his name one.
14:10 All the land from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem shall be turned as the Arabah; and Jerusalem shall be lifted up, and shall dwell in her own place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner-gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
14:11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; and Jerusalem shall dwell safely.

good4u · Feb 3, 2006

If you are replying to my post, holdon. You type in vain...I have you on my ignore list and for good reason.

holdon · Feb 3, 2006

good4u said:
If you are replying to my post, holdon. You type in vain...I have you on my ignore list and for good reason.

GOOD4U

jeffweeder · Feb 3, 2006

"Explain to us the parable of the tares[23][Or darnel, a weed resembling wheat] of the field."
http://www.christianforums.com/37 And He said, "The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man,
http://www.christianforums.com/38 and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one;
http://www.christianforums.com/39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end[24][Or consummation ] of the age; and the reapers are angels.
http://www.christianforums.com/40 "So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end[25][Or consummation ] of the age.
http://www.christianforums.com/41 "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all[26][Or everything that is offensive ] stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,
http://www.christianforums.com/42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
http://www.christianforums.com/43 "Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let[27][Or hear! Or listen! ] him hear.
http://www.christianforums.com/Hidden
A Dragnet
http://www.christianforums.com/ 47 "Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet cast into the sea, and gathering fish of every kind;
http://www.christianforums.com/48 and when it was filled, they drew it up on the beach; and they sat down and gathered the good fish into containers, but the bad they threw away.
http://www.christianforums.com/49 "So it will be at the end[28][Or consummation ] of the age; the angels will come forth and take[29][Or separate ] out the wicked from among the righteous, see also mtt 25:31-
http://www.christianforums.com/50 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
http://www.christianforums.com/51 "Have you understood all these things?" They said*[30][An * in the text marks verbs that are historical presents in the Greek which have been translated with an English past tense in order to conform to modern usage.] to Him, "Yes."
http://www.christianforums.com/52 And Jesus[31][Lit He ] said to them, "Therefore every scribe who has become a disciple of the kingdom of heaven is like a head of a household, who brings out of his treasure things new and old."

http://www.christianforums.com/
Jesus Revisits

icedtea · Feb 3, 2006

There is a verse which says we will be saved out of the tribulation. God's 7 years of judgment are against unbelievers, not us.
He returns at the end WITH HIS SAINTS.
I am curious though. Is everyone who had been saved raptured, as it says I will not lose a single one.

I used to read a marilyn agee webpage and she has been claiming pentecost as the rapture for 8 years now. Maybe she'll be right this year.

jeffweeder · Feb 4, 2006

In fact the scriptures seem to say the opposite =If they persecute me they'll persecute you, in this world you will have tribulation etc . The gospel is being proclaimed to the world ,so people can believe and recieve the gift of salvation, because Gods wrath is coming-:dont you realise that God is patient with you ,not wanting any to perish but all to come to repentance--today is the day of salvation, there may be no tomorrow.And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached to all tongues , AND THEN THE END WILL COME.

A Brother In Christ · Feb 4, 2006

good4u said:
No, you are in error. It is NOT the 7th trumpet -- that is during the Day of the Lord and believers are already GONE from earth. You misinterpret Scripture, as so many on this board do.

When are believers raptured? When the sun is darkened and the moon turns red as if it were blood...read what Jesus says in Matthew 24...He should know, don't you think?

Rapture of the church is a mystery... 1 cor 15:51-54

the mysteries were made known after acts

Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened.....

why 2 peter 3:10-13

good4u · Feb 4, 2006

A Brother In Christ said:
Rapture of the church is a mystery... 1 cor 15:51-54

the mysteries were made known after acts

Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened.....

why 2 peter 3:10-13

You wanna explain your problem, please?

A Brother In Christ · Feb 4, 2006

good4u said:
You wanna explain your problem, please?

what problem do you precieve that I have...

or are you unlearned ?

When Exactly Is the Rapture?

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