When does the resurrection of the dead take place?

[YSam44]

You also dodged the Lazarus issue. Did he die once or twice?

He didn't die the second death did he?

 

[ewq1938]

Christ is the firstborn (resurrected) among many brethren (notice "first") He, Christ also has pre-eminance
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. So no!!!! Abraham, Sarah, David, Enoch, Elijah, and all the others could not have received eternal life before Christ...

Enoch and Elijah could because they were not resurrected because they never died. They were changed into immortals and no scripture forbids that before Christ's resurrection.

 

[ewq1938]

two after the return of Christ...that is 2 + 1 = 3 ....okay, I see you found all three now... LOL

There is only two after Christ's return. You keep claiming a third but you have never presented all three yet.

 

[All4Christ]

@YSam44 - at the Transfiguration Elijah and Moses appeared with Jesus. Jude speaks of the Archangel Michael fighting with the devil over the body of Moses (which refers to an apocryphal book called the Assumption of Moses). This explains how Moses would no longer be in the grave prior to Jesus' resurrection. If Elijah wasn't translated to Heaven - if he died a normal death - how was he able to appear at the transfiguration?

 

[YSam44]

It is your teaching. Paul says the ones alive and remaining won't die but be changed. You insert that they will die very briefly. That is called Eisegesis.

No he doesnt say they wont die, he said they are not asleep, in other words they are currently living, while the others sleep when the big event happens...aaaah ha

 

[ewq1938]

No Paul says they cannot change or quicken until they die... v 36 36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die

I'm talking about this passage:

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

Sleep here is die, and these will not die.

 

[ewq1938]

He didn't die the second death did he?

He died , was resurrected, then died again....dying two times proving the "appointed to die but once" does not apply to all. Some died more than once, some will never die at all.

 

[mmksparbud]

Enoch nor Elijah were made immortal at this time

Where in the bible does it say Enoch was translated, did not see death, but was not given immortality then??? What part of "did not see death" do you not understand"?--Are you calling Paul a liar??

 

[YSam44]

Then show the third one.

its the second death...found in Rev 21

 

[YSam44]

He died , was resurrected, then died again....dying two times proving the "appointed to die but once" does not apply to all. Some died more than once, some will never die at all.

He plainly did not die the second death... with is the lake of fire... no one has gone to the lake of fire as of yet... God only proved he has the power of life and death... Jesus raised the dead... this is not a new thing... resurrection we are speaking of is that in 1 cor 15 mortality putting on immortality... dont get confused on the subject

 

[YSam44]

Where in the bible does it say Enoch was translated, did not see death, but was not given immortality then??? What part of "did not see death" do you not understand"?--Are you calling Paul a liar??

Hmmm, calling Paul a liar.... thats vague... all of scripture is God breathed...so it would be God who would be made out a liar if this were my intention... Heb 11.39-40 show plainly that Enoch did not recieve immortality at that time... go look it up

 

[ewq1938]

its the second death...found in Rev 21

Death is the opposite of a resurrection obviously.

 

[YSam44]

He died , was resurrected, then died again....dying two times proving the "appointed to die but once" does not apply to all. Some died more than once, some will never die at all.

Then you plainly do not know what the second death is... go read it for yourself... Rev 21 if you need other scriptures I can provide them for you if you wish

 

[YSam44]

Death is the opposite of a resurrection obviously.

no life and death are opposites

 

[ewq1938]

He plainly did not die the second death...

I know. I never said he died that death but he did die twice as a mortal human being.

dont get confused on the subject

You are the only one confused.

 

[mmksparbud]

No he doesnt say they wont die, he said they are not asleep, in other words they are currently living, while the others sleep when the big event happens...aaaah ha

No he meant sleep as death--

Joh 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
Joh 11:12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
Joh 11:13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
Joh 11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
#2837 κοιμάω koimao {koy-mah'-o} from G2749; TDNT - n/a; v
—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) to cause to sleep, put to sleep
2) metaph.
2a) to still, calm, quiet
2b) to fall asleep, to sleep
2c) to die

—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)
From G2749; to put to sleep, that is, (passively or reflexively) to slumber; figuratively to decease:—(be a-, fall a-, fall on) sleep, be dead.
—Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)

• #2837.
• κοιμα´ω
• koimaō from 2749; to put to sleep, fall asleep:—
• NASB - asleep(3), dead(1), fallen asleep(7), fell asleep(3), sleep(2), sleeping(2).

 

[YSam44]

Enoch and Elijah could because they were not resurrected because they never died. They were changed into immortals and no scripture forbids that before Christ's resurrection.

See post 136

 

[YSam44]

No he meant sleep as death--

Joh 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
Joh 11:12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
Joh 11:13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
Joh 11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
#2837 κοιμάω koimao {koy-mah'-o} from G2749; TDNT - n/a; v
—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) to cause to sleep, put to sleep
2) metaph.
2a) to still, calm, quiet
2b) to fall asleep, to sleep
2c) to die

—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)
From G2749; to put to sleep, that is, (passively or reflexively) to slumber; figuratively to decease:—(be a-, fall a-, fall on) sleep, be dead.
—Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)

• #2837.
• κοιμα´ω
• koimaō from 2749; to put to sleep, fall asleep:—
• NASB - asleep(3), dead(1), fallen asleep(7), fell asleep(3), sleep(2), sleeping(2).

I know what sleep means have been saying it all along... go look at the context... they are plainly dead and have been dead quite some time... but it does not negate the fact that Paul states in the same chapter 36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: Paul says it is not changed except it die first... so please dont ask me if I am calling Paul a liar...

 

[YSam44]

I know. I never said he died that death but he did die twice as a mortal human being.



You are the only one confused.

a number of people have physically died twice...those that Christ rose... Jonah died twice... we are talking of a resurrection to immortal life and then the second death (final death)

 

[YSam44]

I'm talking about this passage:

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

Sleep here is die, and these will not die.

In order for mortality to sow on immortality, or corruption to sow on incorruption one must die as in verse 36 same chapter