When does the Church start ?

[Bro in Christ]

To be a Christian one must!

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

this deals with Eternal life which is stated in 1 jn 5:11-13 however OT saints were seeking it!

Mark 10:30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

so at that time they did not have the greatest promises as Heb 11:39-40, 2 peter 1:4 stated

Question How does a christian get Eternal life today?

1 cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized [put into] into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

is this water or spirit baptism is the natural question ...

acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

this implys that the indwelling of God was going to happen very soon!

Jn 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I [am] in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Jn 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me[Christ] :


these are a couple of key verses told the night before he is put on the cross

Jews require signs .... 1 cor 1:22

acts 2:16 But this is like that which was spoken by the prophet Joel [same spirit different event]; 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

did this event happen .... No but they did talk in differnt laugueges clearly

acts 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

what works ... death to pay for their sins burrial and resurrection

Why was Peter chosen to be the first stone on the foundation of Christ by being the voice in acts 2:14

Matt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven:

1 peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

even though Peter turn the key then Paul taught the majority of doctrine .. this reminds me of 1 cor 3:5-8 one plants the seed another watereth , but God giveth the increase

 

[ptomwebster]

...

Matt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; ...

Two different rocks here; Christ is The Rock on which the Church was built, Peter is a little pebble, like sand.

 

[Bro in Christ]

true but Peter was the first pebble benginning the church since he got to turn the key vs 19

 

[Danoh]

To be a Christian one must!

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

this deals with Eternal life which is stated in 1 jn 5:11-13 however OT saints were seeking it!

Mark 10:30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

so at that time they did not have the greatest promises as Heb 11:39-40, 2 peter 1:4 stated

Question How does a christian get Eternal life today?

1 cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized [put into] into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

is this water or spirit baptism is the natural question ...

acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

this implys that the indwelling of God was going to happen very soon!

Jn 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I [am] in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Jn 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me[Christ] :


these are a couple of key verses told the night before he is put on the cross

Jews require signs .... 1 cor 1:22

acts 2:16 But this is like that which was spoken by the prophet Joel [same spirit different event]; 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

did this event happen .... No but they did talk in differnt laugueges clearly

acts 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

what works ... death to pay for their sins burrial and resurrection

Why was Peter chosen to be the first stone on the foundation of Christ by being the voice in acts 2:14

Matt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven:

1 peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

even though Peter turn the key then Paul taught the majority of doctrine .. this reminds me of 1 cor 3:5-8 one plants the seed another watereth , but God giveth the increase

Hopefully, you are not so married to all that, that when someone comes along to share with you the Acts 9 Perspective on all of it, you are still able to do as in Acts 17:11, 12 - actually:

1] Receive it with all readiness of mind: that you might only then;
2] Search the Scriptures daily whether those things are so: that you might only then;
3] Therefore believe.

Of course, regrettably, the Acts 28 position is still stuck in a very poor understanding of Paul's use of Isaiah 6, in Acts 28. But, by all means hear them out as well.

But first search out the Scriptures daily on your own in search of those principles of sound Bible study actually contained within Scripture itself, and until you actually have clear principles you find yourself actually aware of as you study.

When you do, you to will find, that the main principle is that all Scripture is to be studied in light of Romans through Philemon and not, as the various groups all wind up doing - reading the balance of Scripture, into Romans through Philemon,

Study out for example, John's Grace in light of Romans 15, and study out Romans 15 in light of Romans 11, and so on.

Clearly, there is a dividing line, for example, between Romans 15:8-12 and Romans 15:13 forward. And that dividing line is Romans 11:25-27, not only written some ten chapters before the close of Acts at chapter 28, but obviously preached to Roman's readers even earlier than that!

It is in light of Romans 11, that the Apostle of the Gentiles: Paul starts off Romans 15:13 with the words, "Now the God of hope..." In light of what he has already laid out in Romans 9-11 as to what has temporarily become of God's Prophesied Plans for the Gentiles, through a one day redeemed Israel; what has become of that, by His Own Glorious Hand, as outlined by Him through this seemingly odd new Apostle - of the Gentiles - Paul, in Romans 9-11, as well as elsewhere in those Epistles He inspired Paul to write prior to the close of the events depicted in the book of Acts.

In short, yes, "compare spiritual things with spiritual" - yes, let Scripture interpret Scripture, yes, and "as it is written," but also, in light of the very light sent unto the Gentiles towards that very goal - through the writings of that, seemingly, one Apostle too many; the Apostle of the Gentiles: Paul.

Those Thirteen Epistles are the dividing line between God's instruction in righteousness under His Prophesied Plan and Purpose [Genesis thru Early Acts and Hebrews through Revelation], and His Once Kept a Mystery Since the World Began until the Apostle of the Gentiles: Paul [Romans through Philemon].

Hopefully, before you respond to all that not as a rejection right off because it all sounds so off in contrast to what you currently believe, but you instead at least actually receive it, actually studying out the above Romans example.

Sincerely,

Danoh
Eph. 4:16

 

[dan p]

1 cor 12:13 [/COLOR]For by one Spirit are we all baptized [put into] into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

is this water or spirit baptism is the natural question ...

Hi , and here in 1 Cor 12:13 answers how all enter , BAPTIZO/PLACED INTO , the body of Christ !!

But where did Grace of God begin ??

I get Acts 13:46 , Acts 18:6 and Acts 28:28 , but where did the Body of Christ begin ??

Most Acts 28 er , do not accept the first 7 epistles that Paul wrote are to the Body of Christ !!

Acts 20:24 , Paul is talking about the ministry that he received of the Lord Jesus , to testify of the Gospel of the Grace of God !!

Where did Grace begin ??

dan p

 

[Bro in Christ]

When was the law fulfilled... Gal 4:4-6 ...

 

[dan p]

When was the law fulfilled... Gal 4:4-6 ...

Hi , and where do I see SOMA CHRISTOS in Gal 4:4-6 ??

dan p

 

[Bro in Christ]

SOMA CHRISTOS? explain please

 

[dan p]

SOMA CHRISTOS? explain please

Hi , and it means Body of Christ , like in 1 Cor 12:27 !!

By the way , EKKLESIA does not mean Church !!

EK means out !!

KALEO means " A calling !!

EKKLESIA , means Assembly !!

dan p

 

[Bro in Christ]

1 cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. .... definition of 1 cor 12:27


what are you RANTING about ... please quote me?

 

[dan p]

true but Peter was the first pebble benginning the church since he got to turn the key vs 19

Hi , and this is where I am getting " church " from , is your use of it !!

All I did is mention to you that EKKLESIA does not mean " church ".

EKKLESIA is a Greek compound word !!

EK means " OUT ".

KALEO means " a calling ".

So EKKLESIA means Asembly and does not mean CHURCH , so check VINE'S DICTIONARY and see !!

If you check VINE'S you will find EKKLESIA under the word ASSEMBLY !!


I am really disappointed , as I wanted to hear from their LIPS how SAUL was saved and when ??


I guess they are Wanne=abees Acts 28 er's !!




dan p

 

[Bro in Christ]

Hi , and this is where I am getting " church " from , is your used of it !!

All I did is mention to you that EKKLESIA does not mean " church ".

EKKLESIA is a Greek compound word !!

EK means " OUT ".

KALEO means " a calling ".

So EKKLESIA means Asembly and does not mean CHURCH , so check VINE'S DICTIONARY and see !!

If you check VINE'S you will find EKKLESIA under the word ASSEMBLY !!




dan p

The Church was a mystery

 

[Danoh]

I continue to assert that the only way to arrive at what any word in Scripture is actually referring to is through Scripture.

In Spanish, for example, the word for “church,” is the word “iglesia,” which is not far from the Greek word “ekklesia.”

I look at that, and rather than jump on it in support of whatever, I instead remain where I have learned to remain.

In, “So what – nevertheless, what saith the Scripture, in light of the Mystery?”

Doing that – actually going to Scripture – for how the Holy Ghost used “the words which;” that’s right, that He “teacheth,” and what I find is that even if ekklesia had been translated, for example, “tomato,” the actual key to the Spirit’s intended meaning is to be found in how He used those words.

For the simple fact is, that words, both receive and determine their meaning, not by any one word itself, regardless of language, rather, by how they are used within a structure of words. These sentences are all an example of this.

Believe it or not, that has been much of my “Greek.”

Not much time at all, for I have long since learned to abide by the simple question, “Nevertheless, what saith the Scripture?,” and that, of course, in light of that capstone of all God’s revelation that would forever impact the meaning of all His words – the Mystery first made known by Him to and through the Apostle Paul, in Romans through Philemon.

I study His words out from that, in His Word, and when someone comes along and says, “well, the word ‘church’ did not exist back then, or this, or that, or that it meant the Lord’s house, not congregation or assembly, or what have you, and what I find I am left is” – “Nevertheless, what saith the Scripture?”

What then saith the Scripture on this? That God has declared in His Word He would one day dwell, be that, in Israel’s program, or the Body’s – in a temple, a building, a Lord’s house, made of flesh.

To me, that is a church; a Lord’s house.

Such a simple, ever bulls-eye dead center means of studying things out.

Who'd've guessed it - God not only wrote a book; but one with its own, built-in dictionary, that regardless of whether we translate a word "toh-may-toe," or "toh-mah-toh," nevertheless, what saith the scripture as a whole, remain, its own whole.

What is it then, that we like to appear smart by our other means; is that the issue?

Danoh
4:16

 

[Dispy]

When does the Church start ?

From you title, I mus assume you are referring to the Church, the Body of Christ, and I will respond based upon that assumption.

The Church, the Body of Christ, consists of Jews and Gentiles on equal footing, without distinction, and not under the Law. That church did not start until after the raising up/conversion of the Apostle Paul.

Since the Church, the Body of Christ, had been "kept secret since the world began", until revealed to Paul, it cannot be read into any Scripture prior to its being made known. Therefore, it cannot be read into the Gospels, or any of the OT. It surely cannot be found at Pentecost in Acts 2. According to Acts 2:16-21 it was the Tribulation that began at Pentecost.

 

[dan p]

From you title, I mus assume you are referring to the Church, the Body of Christ, and I will respond based upon that assumption.

The Church, the Body of Christ, consists of Jews and Gentiles on equal footing, without distinction, and not under the Law. That church did not start until after the raising up/conversion of the Apostle Paul.

Since the Church, the Body of Christ, had been "kept secret since the world began", until revealed to Paul, it cannot be read into any Scripture prior to its being made known. Therefore, it cannot be read into the Gospels, or any of the OT. It surely cannot be found at Pentecost in Acts 2. According to Acts 2:16-21 it was the Tribulation that began at Pentecost.

Hi , and I mention EKKLESIA so we see that it means Assembly and not CHURCH !!

The RCC makes much ado about their being the ONLY Church , that Christ started in Matt 16:18 !!

But this EKKLESIA is and an Assembly of Jewish believers that SAUL was killing , up to Acts 9 !!


The New Man of Eph 2:15 is a New Assembly , called the Body of Christ !!

dan p

 

[Bro in Christ]

From you title, I mus assume you are referring to the Church, the Body of Christ, and I will respond based upon that assumption.

The Church, the Body of Christ, consists of Jews and Gentiles on equal footing, without distinction, and not under the Law. That church did not start until after the raising up/conversion of the Apostle Paul.

Since the Church, the Body of Christ, had been "kept secret since the world began", until revealed to Paul, it cannot be read into any Scripture prior to its being made known. Therefore, it cannot be read into the Gospels, or any of the OT. It surely cannot be found at Pentecost in Acts 2. According to Acts 2:16-21 it was the Tribulation that began at Pentecost.

If so why have not the mountians disappearred .. rev 16:18-20

 

[Dispy]

From you title, I mus assume you are referring to the Church, the Body of Christ, and I will respond based upon that assumption.

The Church, the Body of Christ, consists of Jews and Gentiles on equal footing, without distinction, and not under the Law. That church did not start until after the raising up/conversion of the Apostle Paul.

Since the Church, the Body of Christ, had been "kept secret since the world began", until revealed to Paul, it cannot be read into any Scripture prior to its being made known. Therefore, it cannot be read into the Gospels, or any of the OT. It surely cannot be found at Pentecost in Acts 2. According to Acts 2:16-21 it was the Tribulation that began at Pentecost.

If so why have not the mountians disappeared .. rev 16:18-20

Excellent question.

First of all, the Church, the Body of Christ, cannot be found in the book of the Revelation as it is the fulfillment of OT prophecy pertaining to the nation of Israel. The Church, the Body of Christ, will have been raptured to heaven prior to those events happening. Those events are still future.

Jesus came only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matt. 15:224), to fulfill all the promises made to the Jewish fathers (cf. Rom. 15:8). However, Israel, as a nation rejected their King and His kingdom. Therefore, God gave Israel temporary slumbering eyes (set aside), raised up Saul/Paul to usher in this present dispensation of Grace, which had been kept secret since the world began.

With the temporary setting aside of Israel, God interrupted the prophetic program pertaining to Israel, and the Tribulation. They will again both be resumed from the point of interruption after the rapture of the Church, the Body of Christ.

Hope this is helpful.

 

[dan p]

Hi , and 1 Peter 2:6-9 , say that the STONE the builders rejected , was Christ , which is all Jewish !!

In 1 Cor 3:10-11 , Paul lays another foundation , for the Body of Christ !!


So , where does Acts 28 start the Body of Christ ???

dan p

 

[Bro in Christ]

From you title, I mus assume you are referring to the Church, the Body of Christ, and I will respond based upon that assumption.

The Church, the Body of Christ, consists of Jews and Gentiles on equal footing, without distinction, and not under the Law. That church did not start until after the raising up/conversion of the Apostle Paul.

Since the Church, the Body of Christ, had been "kept secret since the world began", until revealed to Paul, it cannot be read into any Scripture prior to its being made known. Therefore, it cannot be read into the Gospels, or any of the OT. It surely cannot be found at Pentecost in Acts 2. According to Acts 2:16-21 it was the Tribulation that began at Pentecost.

???????

if the mountians move is in the future.... there is no word of tribulation in acts 2 ... none ... so what are you saying?

 

[Bro in Christ]

Hi , and 1 Peter 2:6-9 , say that the STONE the builders rejected , was Christ , which is all Jewish !!

In 1 Cor 3:10-11 , Paul lays another foundation , for the Body of Christ !!


So , where does Acts 28 start the Body of Christ ???

dan p

Yes I know Christ is the Big stone and peter is little stone .... starting the beginning of the church... How by the helper coming aka Holy Spirit

Romans 8:9 with out the spirit you are not HIS

1 cor 12:13 Holy Spirit puts you into Christ !

jn 14:16 after jesus left JC prays that the Holy Spirit will come

Maturity of baby christians happens in Acts 9 since they are showing fruits from the spirit by their works.