When does Marian veneration and devotion go too far? When is the line crossed?

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I am not going to walk on egg shells around here. Report me if you want. I'm not attacking anyone. I merely stated that those who make statements should be able to back them up.

I note that you have not answered any questions. You're just attacking posters.

Walk the walk then and answer the questions.

Do you know ANYTHING about the hours and liturgical services as given by the Apostles?

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[Albion]

Before we move on to newer ones, has anyone answered this question yet?

Since the bible is the only source that contains the infallible word of God, why would I use anything else?

 

[Sword of the Lord]

Edit: NM

 

[marie alice]

I note that you have not answered any questions.

I've addressed every question put to me .. except yours. There is no rule, however, that I must. So I won't.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Before we move on to newer ones, has anyone answered this question yet?

Where does the Bible say that it is the only source of the infallible word of God?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I've addressed every question put to me .. except yours. There is no rule, however, that I must. So I won't.

Then stop telling others that they need to walk the walk.

You may want to take note of where you are in the forums. This is an area for traditional (orthodox) Christianity. You are going to see Catholics and Greek Orthodox here and THEY are not believers of 'bible only' theology.

I have 22k+ posts in this area... we will see each other. You're lack of respect for the people who belong here is quite evident. So is your lack of Christian education and that is why you CANT answer my questions.

I would like to have a civil conversation about the OP and how it relates to the hours and liturgical services. But you don't know what that is... I'm happy to help with that, but not with the snide comments and stupidity that you are currently using as a posting style.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[Albion]

Where does the Bible say that it is the only source of the infallible word of God?

How does that theory grant permission for -- or even logically suggest -- making the opinions of men its equal?

 

[Sword of the Lord]

I love the Bible. I actually carry it with me wherever I go. But I also ackowledge history.

 

[marie alice]

Then stop telling others that they need to walk the walk.

Please do not presume to tell me what to do.

You may want to take note of where you are in the forums. This is an area for traditional (orthodox) Christianity. You are going to see Catholics and Greek Orthodox here and THEY are not believers of 'bible only' theology.

What’s your point?

I have 22k+ posts in this area... we will see each other. You're lack of respect for the people who belong here is quite evident. So is your lack of Christian education and that is why you CANT answer my questions.

And I’ve just about had it with you and your pompous attitude. You are attacking me with unfounded allegations. And who are you to tell me that I don't belong here?

I would like to have a civil conversation about the OP and how it relates to the hours and liturgical services. But you don't know what that is... I'm happy to help with that, but not with the snide comments and stupidity that you are currently using as a posting style.

I have not yet answered your question on the liturgical services so how can you say I don’t know what it is? By the way, calling me stupid is not very Christian behavior, is it?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Please do not presume to tell me what to do.



What’s your point?



And I’ve just about had it with you and your pompous attitude. You are attacking me with unfounded allegations. And who are you to tell me that I don't belong here?


I have not yet answered your question on the liturgical services so how can you say I don’t know what it is? By the way, calling me stupid is not very Christian behavior, is it?

I turned the tables on you. Thought you'd like to see how it feels to be on the receiving end.

Care to continue without the personal attacks? Me too.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I love the Bible. I actually carry it with me wherever I go. But I also ackowledge history.

I wouldn't expect anyone except a liturgist to understand that what you mentioned in the OP was an abbreviated stavrotheotokion. It bears explaining. I hope you can see that it wasn't intended to be a salvitic statement of it's own but a small part of a much greater prayer.

Christ did the same when on the cross he spoke the line from Psalm 22.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[Optimax]

If you're thinking about what Paul wrote to Timothy in a letter then include the context where Paul speaks about his teaching - 2 Timothy 3:10-15 10 But you have followed my teaching, my conduct, and my purpose in life; you have observed my faith, my patience, my love, my endurance, 11 my persecutions, and my sufferings. You know all that happened to me in Antioch, Iconium, and Lystra, the terrible persecutions I endured! But the Lord rescued me from them all. 12 Everyone who wants to live a godly life in union with Christ Jesus will be persecuted; 13 and evil persons and impostors will keep on going from bad to worse, deceiving others and being deceived themselves. 14 But as for you, continue in the truths that you were taught and firmly believe. You know who your teachers were, 15 and you remember that ever since you were a child, you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Notice that traditions were not mentioned there either.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

2Th 2:15

Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

2Th 3:6

Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[mkgal1]

Are you suggesting that there is another source besides scripture that contains the infallible, inerrant word of Almighty God?

If you’re gonna talk the talk, you better be prepared to walk the walk.

It's called historical context (for example of one element that needs to be used in addition to the Bible) ---as Michael already brought up.

 

[Albion]

It's called historical context (for example of one element that needs to be used in addition to the Bible).

It sounds to me like you are referring to something needed in order to properly understand the Bible, not a different and additional source of guidance besides the Bible.

 

[Thekla]

Notice that traditions were not mentioned there either.

Not explicitly, but considering Paul's repeated (throughout the epistles) exhortation to imitate, reconsider this statement: But you have followed my teaching, my conduct, and my purpose in life; you have observed my faith, my patience, my love, my endurance, 11 my persecutions, and my sufferings.

 

[Optimax]

Not explicitly, but considering Paul's repeated (throughout the epistles) exhortation to imitate, reconsider this statement: But you have followed my teaching, my conduct, and my purpose in life; you have observed my faith, my patience, my love, my endurance, 11 my persecutions, and my sufferings.

"Not explicitly" means it is not there.

The verse talks about different subjects explicitly.

 

[sonshine234]

Since the bible is the only source that contains the infallible word of God, why would I use anything else? Are you suggesting that there is another source besides scripture that contains His inerrant word?

So you can't give proof. You know the Bible was not always around and St. Paul says not just to use Scripture, but what they taught also. You'll find no where does it say to use the Bible alone, but many Protestants want to, they use a man made tradition of the Bible alone, but do not follow Scripture itself, where it says that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth not a book.

The Scriptures are a word of God, Christ is the Word of God

 

[sonshine234]

I am not going to walk on egg shells around here. Report me if you want. I'm not attacking anyone. I merely stated that those who make statements should be able to back them up.

Then stop cowering and back up your assertion that we should only use the Bible alone

 

[sonshine234]

Most of these Protestant American types don't even know about Orthodoxy, let alone early Christianity. They think their southern twang, Bible thumping pastors are what has always been.

Very true, I was there at one time myself