When does Marian veneration and devotion go too far? When is the line crossed?

[Optimax]

The bible itself is the product of men. It did not drop from heaven, nor was it given by an angel and recited by men. Why pretend that Apostolic Tradition is any less a revelation from God than what is written in the bible?

Notice that Scripture is inspired by God.

Notice that "tradition" is not even mentioned.

2 Tim 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
KJV

 

[MoreCoffee]

Notice that Scripture is inspired by God.

Notice that "tradition" is not even mentioned.

If you're thinking about what Paul wrote to Timothy in a letter then include the context where Paul speaks about his teaching - 2 Timothy 3:10-15 10 But you have followed my teaching, my conduct, and my purpose in life; you have observed my faith, my patience, my love, my endurance, 11 my persecutions, and my sufferings. You know all that happened to me in Antioch, Iconium, and Lystra, the terrible persecutions I endured! But the Lord rescued me from them all. 12 Everyone who wants to live a godly life in union with Christ Jesus will be persecuted; 13 and evil persons and impostors will keep on going from bad to worse, deceiving others and being deceived themselves. 14 But as for you, continue in the truths that you were taught and firmly believe. You know who your teachers were, 15 and you remember that ever since you were a child, you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I see what you mean. It is odd how some make it sound as if anything that men have done is wicked and ought to be ignored. What leaves me wondering is that so many who use the mantra about traditions-of-men also advocate speaking in tongues and modern day prophets. There's a level of inconsistency that is breathtaking in that.

I tire quickly of those that will take any and every opportunity to attack Churches. True colors and all... nothing but willful and obstinate.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[marie alice]

I would consider it very strange if a Church that was established in 38ad did not know more Christian history than what is presented in the bible.

Please point out to me the scriptural evidence that the apostles prayed to Mary. I'll wait.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Please point out to me the scriptural evidence that the apostles prayed to Mary. I'll wait.

There's not any. Do you expect a Church that is 2000 years old not to know anything that is extra-biblical?

My faith is not based on scripture only.

Orthodox Christianity = traditional Christianity


BTW ~ Welcome to 'Christian Forums' and 'General Theology for orthodox Christians'.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[Standing Up]

How do you "know" that?

There's a Greek word for cousin, but it wasn't used. The Greek word for brother was.

 

[MoreCoffee]

There's a Greek word for cousin, but it wasn't used. The Greek word for brother was.

So what?

Same thing happens in the LXX for people who are not brothers with the same mother (and/or father). You've already been told that but looks like you ignored it.

 

[Standing Up]

So what?

Same thing happens in the LXX for people who are not brothers with the same mother (and/or father). You've already been told that but looks like you ignored it.

That was in Hebrew, this is in Greek. I keep explaining that. There's a Greek word for cousin, if they wanted to convey that idea. They didn't. They used the word for brother.

It's no big deal whether Mary and Joseph "knew" each other, certainly not to the point of ignoring the obvious words.

 

[marie alice]

The bible itself is the product of men.

The bible is the inspired word of God! God used those holy men to pen His testimony to us. The holy bible is not a creation of man!

It did not drop from heaven, nor was it given by an angel and recited by men. Why pretend that Apostolic Tradition is any less a revelation from God than what is written in the bible?

Any Tradition which negates the pure gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ as found within His written word is to be summarily rejected.

 

[MoreCoffee]

All that "Tradition" of man is what deceives by making the word of God of none effect.

The bible itself is the product of men. It did not drop from heaven, nor was it given by an angel and recited by men. Why pretend that Apostolic Tradition is any less a revelation from God than what is written in the bible?

The bible is the inspired word of God! God used those holy men to pen His testimony to us. The holy bible is not a creation of man!

Any Tradition which negates the pure gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ as found within His written word is to be summarily rejected.

What on earth is this stuff?

The bible is the product of men, you say as much "holy men to pen...". But honestly a view of inspiration that dehumanises the men who wrote the scriptures to mere penmen is ridiculous.

Theopneustos (given by God's Spirit) doesn't stop Paul from writing obscure stuff that Peter says is difficult to understand. Penmen! ha!

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

The bible is the inspired word of God! God used those holy men to pen His testimony to us. The holy bible is not a creation of man!


Any Tradition which negates the pure gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ as found within His written word is to be summarily rejected.

To paraphrase... anything and everything that might even sound Catholic is rejected.

Nice.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[Thekla]

That was in Hebrew, this is in Greek. I keep explaining that. There's a Greek word for cousin, if they wanted to convey that idea. They didn't. They used the word for brother.

It's no big deal whether Mary and Joseph "knew" each other, certainly not to the point of ignoring the obvious words.

The LXX is the OT in Greek (translated before the birth of Christ, and quoted more frequently than the Masoretic type in the NT); in the LXX OT the term adelphos is used for cousins.

 

[MoreCoffee]

That was in Hebrew, this is in Greek. ...

Come on!

You know that the LXX is Greek. You're not fooling us!

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

We don't find "One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church" in the bible either, but we all agreed that we believed in it when we signed on.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[marie alice]

What on earth is this stuff?
The bible is the product of men, you say as much "holy men to pen...". But honestly a view of inspiration that dehumanises the men who wrote the scriptures to mere penmen is ridiculous.

You might want to take that up with God. He allowed those who penned the bible to use their own individual style when writing. One can detect this in reading the various missives. But those who penned the bible did so under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. It appears you don’t know what that means.

Theopneustos (given by God's Spirit) doesn't stop Paul from writing obscure stuff that Peter says is difficult to understand. Penmen! ha!

*sigh* you might want to occasionally cite the scripture to which you’re referring:

Second Peter 3:15 “And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction”.

Using word search isn't always the brightest thing to do.

 

[MoreCoffee]

...
*sigh* you might want to occasionally cite the scripture to which you’re referring

Why? I know where the passages are and so do you. Why add clutter?

 

[marie alice]

Why? I know where the passages are and so do you. Why add clutter?

Oh, please. If you had posted the verse in question you would have noticed how silly your original post was.

Do you really consider posting scripture to be clutter? That's just sad.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Do you really consider posting scripture to be clutter? That's just sad.

It is clutter if the passages ought to be well known - and the passages I alluded to were well known - otherwise a full quote is advisable unless it is too long to expect my interlocutor to read. But fear not, your pity is not needed. Keep up the good work of being condescending in your posts. See how it works for you.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Oh, please. If you had posted the verse in question you would have noticed how silly your original post was.

Do you really consider posting scripture to be clutter? That's just sad.

Could you please be just a little less condescending?

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[Sword of the Lord]

Cool thread guys. I'm out.

(and this is why we can't have anything nice at CF)