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Your point??? That different people have different ideas of what the Church actually teaches? Yeah? So what?Many Catholics would disagree with the above, but there is no denying that many would enthusiastically support the idea that Mary is a co-redeemer with God of all who are saved.
I didn't see where mkgal said anything about taking part in the planning. But she did partner with God. She said "Let it be done to me according to Your word."Wrong.
Such an opinion has been voiced, yes, but as appealing as such language is to many people, there's no scriptural or logical basis for believing she had any part in planning the Incarnation or God's plan of salvation--if that's what you were getting at.
Mary "cooperated" with God, it might be said, but so did plenty of other people who figure in the life of Christ.
I think you got it...Perhaps it is supposed to go something like this:
A woman is taking a walk in a park and hears splashing and yelling. She goes to see what it is, and she finds a man drowning in a lake, and he's yelling, "Help me! Save me!" Now, the problem is, she cannot swim; but she runs and finds somebody that can.
I didn't see where mkgal said anything about taking part in the planning. But she did partner with God. She said "Let it be done to me according to Your word."
Check Leviticus - the term there also refers to those who are of the same household. Mark uses the term adelphos for Herod and Phillip (stepbrothers, born of 'different wombs').
Household and relationship is reckoned through a common male - not female. If you know of any use of adelphos/i in the Scriptures - OT and/or NT where this is not the case, please post it (as I have yet to find any).
In the Scriptures, and Greek usage of the time, the actual relationship is not known through the general term "adelphos", but through additional description. (See Plato, as well as OT usage, for example.)
The use of adelphos (which covers at least ten different relationships) is not evidence for other children of Mary.
Exactly.
It's by our faith that we are credited as righteous. Mary's obedience to God's plan (and even just the recognition of her choice to have faith or not) is (IMO) huge. It's something that I believe no Christian should overlook.
Her participation in the beginning may be different than what is mentioned in the OP.....but I'm just bringing up the common unwillingness to explore a little more with an open mind (which is what Michael is doing.....exploring with an open mind). I think that's the necessary element needed for growth.
Remember to use the Greek, not the Hebrew, to understand the brothers (Greek) of Christ. IOW, Hebrew meanings don't apply to the Greek meaning, had they wanted to imply a cousin of Jesus, there was a Greek word to use for cousin. So, as Optimax said, following the bible, Jesus had at least 4 brothers and 2 sisters.
Why do we ask for her prayers? Because the Apostles did so, they held her very highly during her life and after her death continued to ask for her prayers as she had ascended to heaven before them.
Mary has already agreed to bear Jesus. She gave birth to him over 2,000 years ago. Nearly 2,000 years ago Jesus died on the cross and rose again 3 days later. All of this has happened. He has redeemed us. The words "save us" are saying that Mary, right now, can save us. She participated with God in our salvation, but she didn't save us, nor can she save us, which is what the cross is asking her to do; the cross that only means anything to us because her Son, our Lord, died on it to save us.
That still doesn't negate the possibility of half siblings, Standing Up.
There is not an iota of corroboration from the infallible word of God to substantiate your specious claim.
What we know it doesn't mean is cousin ...
You're right. There is not a scintilla of evidence that the Apostles prayed to the Virgin. For that matter, we have no firm idea when or where it was that she died.
There is not an iota of corroboration from the infallible word of God to substantiate your specious claim.
Eastern Tradition says it was in Ephesus that the Blessed Virgin Mary died.
What do you mean "There is not a scintilla of evidence that the Apostles prayed to the Virgin." Tradition tells us that they both asked for her prayers while she lived and they prayed for her prayers after she ascended.
The bible itself is the product of men. It did not drop from heaven, nor was it given by an angel and recited by men. Why pretend that Apostolic Tradition is any less a revelation from God than what is written in the bible?All that "Tradition" of man is what deceives by making the word of God of none effect.
I just upgraded my ignore list.
God be gracious to me a sinner.
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