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Two different uses of the word Church are being used in this thread.
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MarkEllingson said:
Two different uses of the word Church are being used in this thread.
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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
When does a human life begin?
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IronWill
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I lean towards the moment of conception, but another thought gives me pause. Scripture says, in Leviticus I believe, that "life is in the blood." So that could indicate that when blood begins coursing through one's veins, at that point there is life. Which is an interesting theory. And I believe in any case, the baby would still be under two weeks old.
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I have heard the argument of 'the life is in the blood' before, and having read Leviticus I am certain that using this verse to decide when human life begins would be a gross misinterpretation.
The part of Leviticus which refers to the blood is dealing specifically with animal sacrifices. Jews are told not to drink the blood of the victim because 'the life is in the blood'. This is a reference to sacrificial practice and is related to our lives as a precursor to communion. Surely, we find eternal life through the Blood of Christ. It has nothing to do with when human life begins, and everything to do with salvation and sacrifice.
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Saint Melania
The Church is Christ with us.
Life begins at conception, as Jeremiah 1:5 points out. At that moment the DNA is complete to form a new person.
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david_x
I So Hate Consequences!!!!
That is not true, when they join there is a new set of genetic information. The things that seperate them from us is age, development, and their features.
Age: They are yonger than everyone that has been born. Since So and so is over 100 she is less of a person, since so and so is not 21 they are less of a person. Humanity tries to protect those who are not as strong, not hurt them.
Development: They don't have some of our features, so. (Before puberty so and so is less than human. Some people have fewer cromosomes that means they are less than human, technically meaning that people with downs syndrome are more human.)
Features: They don't have a heart. (So and so gave their kidney away, they are less than human. So and so stepped on a mine, go ahead and kill him because he doesn't have a leg anymore.)
Questions?
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sparassidae
In Christ Alone
Good points david_x
Also, think of it this way- if you are in any doubt you should err on the side of caution (ie conception)
Also, think of it this way- if you are in any doubt you should err on the side of caution (ie conception)
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KittyCatCurledUp
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Something I have always wondered about the idea of life beginning at conception:
What of the fertilized egg that, due to inhospitable conditions in the body, does not implant in the uterus and is purged during the body's regular menstrual cycle? (For example, if the uterine wall is not sufficiently lined due to hormal imbalance.)
This is a natural part of a woman's biological process -- who knows how many times it happens due to extreme stress, or a recent illness, etc. Many factors can throw off the body's hormonal secretions, and it is not something that a woman would even be aware of.
I'm not defending one side or the other, I was just curious as to how people would consider the status of the fertilized egg.
What of the fertilized egg that, due to inhospitable conditions in the body, does not implant in the uterus and is purged during the body's regular menstrual cycle? (For example, if the uterine wall is not sufficiently lined due to hormal imbalance.)
This is a natural part of a woman's biological process -- who knows how many times it happens due to extreme stress, or a recent illness, etc. Many factors can throw off the body's hormonal secretions, and it is not something that a woman would even be aware of.
I'm not defending one side or the other, I was just curious as to how people would consider the status of the fertilized egg.
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KittyCatCurledUp
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So the underlying question is: to what end do you think God is applying this new life, if its existence has been completely, utterly unnoticed by the outside world, since there was no way it could have been noticed due to the biological circumstances?
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The same purpose that each of us has. To know, love and serve God and be happy with Him forever. God protects these children from our sinful and fallen world, Jesus' death and resurrection means that they can enter into the presence of God in the next life.
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ScottBot
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I wish I had the answers to those questions. I really do. I wish I knew why 32 people were needlessly shot while trying to better themselves. I want to know why a person think that blowing themselves and 74 other people up will bring them closer to God. I wonder why people say violets are blue, when they are in fact violet.
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KittyCatCurledUp
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This is the best answer that I have ever received on this subject.
A light bulb went on when I read your response -- I was thinking more along the lines of how our existence impacts the world. But of course -- the briefest space of life imaginable can yield a relationship with God that exists independently of our world, but resounds just as deeply with Him.Thank you very much for that!
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I've read through more post and i have not seen anyone offer facts on this issue, just theory.
Theory is fine to discuss but just remember with theory their are no right or wrong answers. If you believe life begins at conception and another person does not thats fine, we all have our own opinions, but you cant say they are wrong, or u are right, based on theory.
Theory is fine to discuss but just remember with theory their are no right or wrong answers. If you believe life begins at conception and another person does not thats fine, we all have our own opinions, but you cant say they are wrong, or u are right, based on theory.
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chnchris
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The only theory is that life does not begin at conception!
Conception: fertilization; inception of pregnancy.
Pregnant: having a child or other offspring developing in the
body; with child or young, as a woman or female mammal.
"with child," 1545, from Latin, prægnantem (nom. prægnans,
originally prægnas) "with child,"
If it's not a baby, you're not pregnant!
[SIZE=+1]Fact: Individual life begins with conception by the union of the couple's sex cells or gametes.The 23 chromosomes of the paternal sperm (male pronucleus) fuses with the 23 chromosomes of the maternal oocyte (egg or female pronucleus) at fertilization to create a single cell embryo or zygote containing 46 chromosomes.
The new human zygote has the inherent capacity or potential to become a fully rational and cognizant person!
Each one represents a unique, irreplaceable, never-to-be-reduplicated human being!
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That is still not a scientific fact. You just gave definitions. They can be helpful but remember definitions and words change over time.
No doubt its a living organism at conception with the potential to become a human being. But at what point can we say it is a human being with feeling, nerves, etc? Cause at the moment of conception its just a tiny sperm and an egg (i won't consider that to be a human being).
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