When does a human life begin?

[ig3L]

Biblically speaking, when does life begin? I am pro-life myself, and that seems to be the default position in the Church, but I am not sure that I can point to any particular scripture that mandates that position. But, still I feel that there just seems to be something deeply troubling about creating a life only to kill it. A common statement is that "abortion is murder." This is only biblically true, however, if life begins before the abortion occurs. So it seems to me that a pivotal quesiton in this issue is when does life begin. Please cite scripture whereever possible.

 

[cutie76]

At Conception.

From a spiritual and medical stand, it is obvious to me.

Once the egg and sperm meet cells begin to divide and a baby is being formed - by GOD.

Psalm 139:13-14

For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother's womb.
I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.

Another example is that of Elizabeth carrying John the Baptist in her womb:

Luke 1:41-44

When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. In a loud voice she exclaimed: "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy.

Think of it like a seed that is planted in the ground. Even though you cannot see anything above the ground for days or weeks there is still LIFE growing under the ground.

I'm sure there are many more scriptures, but these are the ones I know off the top of my head.

You may want to do a search on SEED in Bible Gateway and you will find how important the seed is to GOD.

 

[biblestudy123]

At Conception.

From a spiritual and medical stand, it is obvious to me.

Once the egg and sperm meet cells begin to divide and a baby is being formed - by GOD.

Psalm 139:13-14

For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother's womb.
I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.

Another example is that of Elizabeth carrying John the Baptist in her womb:

Luke 1:41-44

When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. In a loud voice she exclaimed: "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy.

Think of it like a seed that is planted in the ground. Even though you cannot see anything above the ground for days or weeks there is still LIFE growing under the ground.

I'm sure there are many more scriptures, but these are the ones I know off the top of my head.

You may want to do a search on SEED in Bible Gateway and you will find how important the seed is to GOD.

None of those verses even imply human life begans at conception. Cells in a mothers womb can not leap when they are one day old.
Also, about 1 in 4 births end in miscarriage within the first couple months. Should we consider these deaths and have funerals?

 

[chnchris]

Biblically speaking, when does life begin? I am pro-life myself, and that seems to be the default position in the Church, but I am not sure that I can point to any particular scripture that mandates that position. But, still I feel that there just seems to be something deeply troubling about creating a life only to kill it. A common statement is that "abortion is murder." This is only biblically true, however, if life begins before the abortion occurs. So it seems to me that a pivotal quesiton in this issue is when does life begin. Please cite scripture whereever possible.

This is why one must use both Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture as a guide to the fullness of the Christian faith.
Scripture alone doesn't cover everything and is not scriptural.

Early Church Teachings on Abortion:

"You shall not kill an unborn child or murder a newborn infant." - Didache. 100 AD​

"You shall love your neighbor more than your own life. You shall not slay the child by abortion." - Barnabas [c. 70-138], Epistles.
"For us [Christians], murder is once and for all forbidden; so even the child in womb, while yet the Mother's blood is still being drawn on to form the human being, it is not lawful for us to destroy. To forbid birth is only quicker murder...He is a man, who is to be a man; the fruit is always present in the seed." - Tertullian, 197, Apologeticus.
"Those women who use drugs to bring about an abortion commit murder and will have to give an account to God for their abortion." - Athenagoras of Athens, letter to Marcus Aurelius in 177, Legatio pro Christianis [Supplication for the Christians].
"There are women who, by use of medicinal potions, destroy the unborn life in their wombs, and murder the child before they bring it forth. These practices undoubtedly are derived from a custom established by your gods; Saturn. Though he did not expose his sons, certainly devoured them." - Minucius Felix, theologian [c. 200-225] Octavius.
"If we would not kill off the human race born and developing according to God's plan, then our whole lives would be lived according to nature. Women who make use of some sort of deadly abortion drug kill not only the embryo but, together with it, all human kindness." - Clement of Alexandria, priest and the "Father of Theologians" [c. 150-220]. Christ the educator.
"Sometimes this lustful cruelty or cruel lust goes so far as to seek to procure a baneful sterility, and if this fails the fetus conceived in the womb is in one way or another smothered or evacuated, in the desire to destroy the offspring before it has life, or if it already lives in the womb, to kill it before it is born." - St. Augustine, Bishop of Hippo [354 to 430], De Nuptius et Concupiscus [On Marriage and Concupiscence).
"Some virgins [unmarried women], when they learn they are with child through sin, practice abortion by the use of drugs, frequently they die themselves and are brought before the ruler of lower world guilty of three crimes: suicide, adultery against Christ, and murder of an unborn child." - St. Jerome [c. 340-420], Letter to Eustochium.
"The hairsplitting difference between formed and unformed makes no difference to us. Whoever deliberately commits abortion is subject to the penalty for homicide." - St. Basil the Great [329- 379], "First Canonical Letter," Three Canonical Letters.
"Those who give drugs for procuring abortion, and those who receive poisons to kill the fetus, are subjected to the penalty for murder." - Trullian Quinisext Council (692), Canons.


JMJ +

chris

 

[Ave Maria]

When does the fetus become a person? When it takes its first breath of air some would argue. See these articles below for more information:

http://www.rcrc.org/pdf/RCRC_EdSeries_Personhood.pdf

http://www.rcrc.org/pdf/RCRC_EdSeries_Fetus.pdf

 

[Assisi]

about 1 in 4 births end in miscarriage within the first couple months. Should we consider these deaths and have funerals?

Yes. A lot of children in Africa die before they are ten. Should we consider these as deaths and have funerals?

The Bible does not tell us straight out when life begins from a medical standpoint. But we can work it out if we have a clear Biblical understanding the human soul. Look at the creation of Adam. He became a human with a soul when God breathed life into him, right? One minute he was a collection of matter and the next he was a living, human man.
So we must ask ourselves: what are the differences between a collection of matter and a human soul? This way we can determine if we are looking at a clump of cells or a human soul, right? Well, humans with souls can move and grow and live. This is precisely what embryos and fetuses spend all their time doing. From the moment of conception we can see growth...we can see life. Abortion is murder because life begins at conception.

If you do not believe that life begins at conception, then when does it begin? All you can do is draw an arbitrary line in the sand. You say that many pregnancies end in the first few months, this is true. Does this mean that these are not people who have died? We lost our child 12 weeks. Was it a little person? Or a clump of matter? It had arms and legs and a head and organs (and even finger nails!). What about at 11 weeks? What about at 10? 9? 8? When? The time when there is a notable difference from inanimate to alive is conception - no later.

 

[xtreN]

Amen cutie76 at conception.

 

[biblestudy123]

Yes. A lot of children in Africa die before they are ten. Should we consider these as deaths and have funerals?

The Bible does not tell us straight out when life begins from a medical standpoint. But we can work it out if we have a clear Biblical understanding the human soul. Look at the creation of Adam. He became a human with a soul when God breathed life into him, right? One minute he was a collection of matter and the next he was a living, human man.
So we must ask ourselves: what are the differences between a collection of matter and a human soul? This way we can determine if we are looking at a clump of cells or a human soul, right? Well, humans with souls can move and grow and live. This is precisely what embryos and fetuses spend all their time doing. From the moment of conception we can see growth...we can see life. Abortion is murder because life begins at conception.

If you do not believe that life begins at conception, then when does it begin? All you can do is draw an arbitrary line in the sand. You say that many pregnancies end in the first few months, this is true. Does this mean that these are not people who have died? We lost our child 12 weeks. Was it a little person? Or a clump of matter? It had arms and legs and a head and organs (and even finger nails!). What about at 11 weeks? What about at 10? 9? 8? When? The time when there is a notable difference from inanimate to alive is conception - no later.

You would say that a sperm cell plus an egg is a human being? (the moment they connect)
No doubt its a living organism but saying its a human being is a bit much. I havent researched this question in awhile but at conception it is not a human being. That is something you were told, probably by your church or parents, but their is nothing scientific to back that up. Every i've talked to in the science and medical field does not believe human life begans at conception (even the christians).
If i get some free time i'll try to research this more to give you a better answer. From my previous research i concluded that by 6 months it is for sure a human life but at conception it is not. So somewhere between their human life begans.

 

[Assisi]

You would say that a sperm cell plus an egg is a human being? (the moment they connect)

Yes.

No doubt its a living organism but saying its a human being is a bit much.

Why is that? What is it that makes us human?
At conception all genes are present, and the foundation for every part of the body is present and the areas which are pre determined to be head, mouth, bottom etc are recognisable. The cells begin to split which means growth (which means a soul...), and the 'organism' is a separate being from the mother. How does this not equal a new person?? If it is not a person, what is it?

I havent researched this question in awhile but at conception it is not a human being. That is something you were told, probably by your church or parents, but their is nothing scientific to back that up. Every i've talked to in the science and medical field does not believe human life begans at conception (even the christians).

Actually I have a degree in science and have studied conception in depth in biology class, it's not something I 'just heard from parents and church' . I know many doctors and scientists who believe that life begins at conception, (some are not even Christian).

If i get some free time i'll try to research this more to give you a better answer. From my previous research i concluded that by 6 months it is for sure a human life but at conception it is not. So somewhere between their human life begans.

I would be very interested to see your material and your sources. I would like to know your 'criteria' for who counts as a human, with some Biblical support.

 

[biblestudy123]

Yes.


Why is that? What is it that makes us human?
At conception all genes are present, and the foundation for every part of the body is present and the areas which are pre determined to be head, mouth, bottom etc are recognisable. The cells begin to split which means growth (which means a soul...), and the 'organism' is a separate being from the mother. How does this not equal a new person?? If it is not a person, what is it?


Actually I have a degree in science and have studied conception in depth in biology class, it's not something I 'just heard from parents and church' . I know many doctors and scientists who believe that life begins at conception, (some are not even Christian).


I would be very interested to see your material and your sources. I would like to know your 'criteria' for who counts as a human, with some Biblical support.

Thousands of sperm die in men every day. Hundreds of eggs will die in a women’s life time. At the moment of conception it’s just a sperm and an egg. There is no development. I don’t see how you can say that is a human being with a soul.

There are no bible verses that give us clear detail on when life begins. In Gen 2:7 it would appear that life with a soul begins when a person takes their first breath:
the LORD God formed the man [e] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

But Gen 2 is a story and not a literal account on when life begins.

I’d like to hear some more facts on when the nervous system and brain are developed.

 

[Assisi]

Thousands of sperm die in men every day. Hundreds of eggs will die in a women’s life time. At the moment of conception it’s just a sperm and an egg. There is no development. I don’t see how you can say that is a human being with a soul.

Sure an egg is not a person, a sperm is not a person, but a fertilised egg becomes something different immediately. For a start, genetic code is immediately unique

There are no bible verses that give us clear detail on when life begins. In Gen 2:7 it would appear that life with a soul begins when a person takes their first breath:

It was not that Adam took his first breath, it was that God breathed life into him. God gives us each a soul and genesis does not imply that breathing is essential to 'ensoulment'

 

[PlainMeteorologist]

Another Scripture supporting the idea that life begins at conception is Jeremiah 1:5:

Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee...

But Gen 2 is a story and not a literal account on when life begins.

Why would you think Genesis 2 is not literal?

 

[biblestudy123]

Another Scripture supporting the idea that life begins at conception is Jeremiah 1:5:

Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee...



Why would you think Genesis 2 is not literal?

Jeremiah never says human life begins at conception. I think we can all agree that human life begans while in the mothers womb but at what point: 6 weeks, 10, 18???
If you want to take Gen 2:7 literal then it would appear human life begans when we take our first breath, the day we are born. I disagree with that.

 

[Prawnik]

If one would consult the traditions of the Church and the teachings of the Church Fathers, the issue becomes quite clear. Abortion at any time is prohibited.

This is the real reason why the "default" Christian position is pro-life and has held abortion to be murder. This is a holdover from older Traditions.

 

[Daza]

What about in instances where the mother's life is threatened? Even the Church is on the fence on this one, if not in support of abortion.

Daza

 

[chnchris]

What about in instances where the mother's life is threatened? Even the Church is on the fence on this one, if not in support of abortion. Daza

Where are you getting this?
The Church is firm on all abortions being wrong.

 

[Daza]

http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=749

When the mother's life is threatened, who's life takes precedence? The infants or the mother's? That is the question at stake in emergency abortion ethics.

Daza

 

[Ave Maria]

Where are you getting this?
The Church is firm on all abortions being wrong.

Why do you say "the Church" as though you were referring to the entire body of Christian believers? It is certainly not true that the entire body of Christian believers is against abortion. There are many Christians (unfortunately) who are pro-choice. This is quite tragic. The only way that I can see abortion being justified is if the life of the mother is at serious risk and all other options have been used to try and save the life of the mother and the child.

 

[Daza]

Please read the link I provided in its entirety.

 

[PlainMeteorologist]

Jeremiah never says human life begins at conception. I think we can all agree that human life begans while in the mothers womb but at what point: 6 weeks, 10, 18???
If you want to take Gen 2:7 literal then it would appear human life begans when we take our first breath, the day we are born. I disagree with that.

Jeremiah 1:5 says that God knew Jeremiah before the prophet was even formed in his mother's womb--so life had definitely begun by conception.

Genesis 2:7 says life began when God breathed life into Adam--he "became a living soul." This does not mean life began when Adam took his first breath, but rather when God created his soul.