When do you know if God is on your side?

[Curious Atheist]

This could possibly open a large can of worms leading to quotes of scripture etc. So with that in mind can we keep to a few examples? Please provide your own so as to not be bias.

I have two examples where America is concerned.

Firstly, the 'manifest destiny' where European settlers believed God wanted them to take America for their own and wipe out/subdue the indigenous, who had been their for thousands of years.
So, was this God's will? Was God on the side of the European settlers and for whatever reason didn't mind the slaughter of American Indians?

Secondly, when George Bush said God wanted him to invade Iraq, was this really God's will? How do you know one way or the other and what difference does it make?


I predict opinions will differ even with only these examples. So my question is how you can possibly tell which is the correct moral decision? Would there be any difference, ie if God wasn't behind the settlers would the taking of America proved impossible/trickier as they were going against God? I don't think any would argue it would have been, so really what is the difference?

It just seems that many actions are justified because ‘God is on their side’ but when so many disagree, what measure is used to tell? I don't think I need to give examples of the evil done in God's name for you to know what I am referring to.



I can bring in another question I asked before here (and didn’t get a satisfactory answer) which is that if Jesus was resurrected and stood in front of you, how could you tell it was Jesus? Bearing in mind that Jesus was one of many hundreds at the time who claimed to be divine and had their own followings. Also bearing in mind that throughout human history to this day humans have claimed to have divine powers or be Jesus themselves. Some are fooled, others remain sceptical so how would you know?


Thanks


James

 

[elman]

This could possibly open a large can of worms leading to quotes of scripture etc. So with that in mind can we keep to a few examples? Please provide your own so as to not be bias.

I have two examples where America is concerned.

Firstly, the 'manifest destiny' where European settlers believed God wanted them to take America for their own and wipe out/subdue the indigenous, who had been their for thousands of years.
So, was this God's will? Was God on the side of the European settlers and for whatever reason didn't mind the slaughter of American Indians?

Secondly, when George Bush said God wanted him to invade Iraq, was this really God's will? How do you know one way or the other and what difference does it make?


I predict opinions will differ even with only these examples. So my question is how you can possibly tell which is the correct moral decision? Would there be any difference, ie if God wasn't behind the settlers would the taking of America proved impossible/trickier as they were going against God? I don't think any would argue it would have been, so really what is the difference?

It just seems that many actions are justified because ‘God is on their side’ but when so many disagree, what measure is used to tell? I don't think I need to give examples of the evil done in God's name for you to know what I am referring to.



I can bring in another question I asked before here (and didn’t get a satisfactory answer) which is that if Jesus was resurrected and stood in front of you, how could you tell it was Jesus? Bearing in mind that Jesus was one of many hundreds at the time who claimed to be divine and had their own followings. Also bearing in mind that throughout human history to this day humans have claimed to have divine powers or be Jesus themselves. Some are fooled, others remain sceptical so how would you know?


Thanks


James

God is on the side of the righteous--the loving and gentle who are compassionate and concerned about the needs of others.

 

[IndieVisible]

When Jesus returns, every one will know it's Him, even you

 

[ReligionRevolution]

The first two questions have the same answer:

Imagine a father, with 12 children. Out of these children, one is stronger than the others. He does more for his father, he faster than his siblings and works harder. The only thing is the strongest child also requires monies for a certain condition he has. One day, the other children get together and talk. One brother says "Brothers and sisters, we have to kill father's favorite. He does too much and I think in the long run this will help father by making him see we do things for him too." A sister sees this logic as acceptable. "Yes, father may not like it now, but by killing our brother we save hundreds of gold a year. That will surely please him!"

Do you see where this is leading? You know as well as I do no father would have his children kill his children. Not hard to surmise that these children, while intending well, are not acting in their father's will.

Now to the last question:

"if Jesus was resurrected and stood in front of you, how could you tell it was Jesus? Bearing in mind that Jesus was one of many hundreds at the time who claimed to be divine and had their own followings. Also bearing in mind that throughout human history to this day humans have claimed to have divine powers or be Jesus themselves. Some are fooled, others remain sceptical so how would you know?"

You know a tree by its fruit. I have no idea what others answered but indeed it is that simple. IF you bite an apple on a pear tree guess what? It is no pear tree.

 

[ViaCrucis]

It's easy to claim that God is on "our side". That's how much evil is perpetrated in the world.

I'm far less interested in God being on my side as I am that I be on God's side. My side is fickle, often selfish and ambivalent toward the needs of others. I can be quite impatient and I sometimes don't exactly always see the the best in others. So I'd hope that, in fact, God isn't on my side. I would prefer to be on His, and to view my fellow man as He does, with love, compassion, and perfect grace. So that I might be kind to all, no matter what. That I might forsake myself for others' sake. That I might become more patient, more generous, more selfless, and more reflective of the Jesus whom I profess to follow.

When my actions look like the Jesus who was kind, generous, loving, compassionate, just, good, non-judging, patient, merciful, selfless, and gentle then I'll be more on God's side and less on mine.

If I claimed God was on my side, then, quite frankly I'd be saying God is as big of an a&&hole as I can often be.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Curious Atheist]

Do you see where this is leading? You know as well as I do no father would have his children kill his children. Not hard to surmise that these children, while intending well, are not acting in their father's will.

So how do you establish this? What if someone was asked by God to build a giant boat for example. How would you see this as 'from God' or just craziness?


You know a tree by its fruit. I have no idea what others answered but indeed it is that simple. IF you bite an apple on a pear tree guess what? It is no pear tree.

Are you suggesting that he would somehow prove he was Jesus? Would this not take away our free will to not believe in him? ie the reason given why God is absent in the eyes of anyone who doesn't belong to your religion.

 

[Curious Atheist]

It's easy to claim that God is on "our side". That's how much evil is perpetrated in the world.

I'm far less interested in God being on my side as I am that I be on God's side. My side is fickle, often selfish and ambivalent toward the needs of others. I can be quite impatient and I sometimes don't exactly always see the the best in others. So I'd hope that, in fact, God isn't on my side. I would prefer to be on His, and to view my fellow man as He does, with love, compassion, and perfect grace. So that I might be kind to all, no matter what. That I might forsake myself for others' sake. That I might become more patient, more generous, more selfless, and more reflective of the Jesus whom I profess to follow.

When my actions look like the Jesus who was kind, generous, loving, compassionate, just, good, non-judging, patient, merciful, selfless, and gentle then I'll be more on God's side and less on mine.

If I claimed God was on my side, then, quite frankly I'd be saying God is as big of an a&&hole as I can often be.

-CryptoLutheran

very honest post! I am sure we can all relate. However this is what i meant by the 'can of worms', could you refer to a specific example? If I said God told me to do xxxx how would you know? What if God sent a message to prepare for the return of Jesus but no-one believes the message? Like the many Americans who thought the world would end, or the countless who think 2012 spells doom for us all.

 

[Curious Atheist]

When Jesus returns, every one will know it's Him, even you

But what about my free will?

 

[drich0150]

This could possibly open a large can of worms leading to quotes of scripture etc. So with that in mind can we keep to a few examples? Please provide your own so as to not be bias.

I have two examples where America is concerned.

Firstly, the 'manifest destiny' where European settlers believed God wanted them to take America for their own and wipe out/subdue the indigenous, who had been their for thousands of years.
So, was this God's will?

If it wasn't do you think it would have happened?

Was God on the side of the European settlers and for whatever reason didn't mind the slaughter of American Indians?

We are told that it is God who places governments into power and it is God who topples them. So apparently so.

Secondly, when George Bush said God wanted him to invade Iraq, was this really God's will?

The same applies here. You could also turn this and say it was God's will that Hitler came to power as well. Why? Because God is not the cosmic force of good that pop culture understands Him to be. God is a being that wants for us to have the Heart and mind to spend eternity with Him. He also knows, as do some of us that in order for us to come to that decision we must be wholly educated in the ways of wickedness, sin and Evil so that we may completely understand it and how it stands in contrast to what He offers.

That is what this world this life is for. It is aplace that we are allowed to let evil run rampant in our hearts. So is it in God's will to let evil men come to power? Yes, just like it is in His will to stop Evil men. all for the sake of a generational education of sin and Evil. Fore we must know what true sin and Evil is in order to choose an eternal existence with it or without it.

I predict opinions will differ even with only these examples. So my question is how you can possibly tell which is the correct moral decision?

You guys need to stop looking at "morality" as some absolute standard. It is not. What is absolute is God. It is to this standard in which we must measure our decisions and actions. If they measure up then we know our actions are with in the expressed will of God and if they do not then we know we are in sin.

Would there be any difference, ie if God wasn't behind the settlers would the taking of America proved impossible/trickier as they were going against God?

Yes the Indians would have over powered the settlers or would have been hostile to them rather than welcoming.

It just seems that many actions are justified because ‘God is on their side’ but when so many disagree, what measure is used to tell?

The bible.

I can bring in another question I asked before here (and didn’t get a satisfactory answer) which is that if Jesus was resurrected and stood in front of you, how could you tell it was Jesus?

How do you know if you are confronted by Christ? Because your knee will bow and your tongue will confess that He is indeed Lord. Their will be no doubt when He reveals Himself to you.

Bearing in mind that Jesus was one of many hundreds at the time who claimed to be divine and had their own followings. Also bearing in mind that throughout human history to this day humans have claimed to have divine powers or be Jesus themselves. Some are fooled, others remain sceptically so how would you know?

During that time "He" was the only one with Nail scared hands and feet with a wound in His left side walking around performing miricales, speaking to large crowds and literally was seen to ascend into Heaven. All the "other guys" fell alittle short in that area..

 

[ViaCrucis]

very honest post! I am sure we can all relate. However this is what i meant by the 'can of worms', could you refer to a specific example? If I said God told me to do xxxx how would you know? What if God sent a message to prepare for the return of Jesus but no-one believes the message? Like the many Americans who thought the world would end, or the countless who think 2012 spells doom for us all.

For those of us who are steeped in the historic confessions and teachings of Christianity there are certain things that are a little simple: if someone says something that contradicts what Christians have received and believed for the last two thousand years then it's probably not from God. Of course we could be wrong, but then that means everything we've believed has been wrong and therefore, what would be the point in being part of and confessing the historic Christian faith?

So, for example, when Bush claimed God was on his side and told him to invade Iraq my response would be to point to Jesus, talk about what the Church Fathers taught and that why would the same God who, in Jesus, teaches us to love our enemies and whose Apostles and early Church forbade the use of violence (even military violence) tell Bush to invade a country and stay there even when it was found out that the original motive was a fabrication?

St. Clement of Alexandria said, "In peace, not in war, are we [Christians] trained."

St. Justin Martyr said that we who formerly were violent and murderous have turned our swords into plowshares and spears into pruning hooks.

Origen of Alexandria told Celsus that a Christian does a far better service to the king through prayer and peace than by being a soldier and fighting in the king's wars.

St. Martin of Tours said, "I am a soldier of Christ, it is not permitted of me to fight."

St. Marcellus of Tangiers was martyred for throwing off his military belt and profaning Rome.

St. Hippolytus of Rome taught that if a catachumen joined the military or if already in the military followed an order that required him to kill or do harm that meant being barred from receiving Baptism; even being a civil judge and condemning a man to die could warrant excommunication.

There's also this video which is still probably one of the best things I've ever seen on the internet.

George W Bush Battles Jesus Christ - YouTube

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Curious Atheist]

[FONT=&quot]This could possibly open a large can of worms leading to quotes of scripture etc. So with that in mind can we keep to a few examples? Please provide your own so as to not be bias.


[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We are told that it is God who places governments into power and it is God who topples them. So apparently so.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Do you ever wonder why God would do this to an innocent race of people? Doesn’t this also cause animosity towards natives as surely God prefers the settlers? Or do you not question God’s decisions and assume it’s part of a larger plan?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The same applies here. You could also turn this and say it was God's will that Hitler came to power as well. Why? Because God is not the cosmic force of good that pop culture understands Him to be. God is a being that wants for us to have the Heart and mind to spend eternity with Him. He also knows, as do some of us that in order for us to come to that decision we must be wholly educated in the ways of wickedness, sin and Evil so that we may completely understand it and how it stands in contrast to what He offers. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]

That is what this world this life is for. It is aplace that we are allowed to let evil run rampant in our hearts. So is it in God's will to let evil men come to power? Yes, just like it is in His will to stop Evil men. all for the sake of a generational education of sin and Evil. Fore we must know what true sin and Evil is in order to choose an eternal existence with it or without it.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]So God condones the genocide of millions of innocent people to prove there is evil in the world? Wasn’t there already enough evil? Didn’t God flood the world the last time people were too evil? This really doesn’t fit in with the teachings of Jesus. I don’t believe Jesus was divine, but he definitely talked a lot of sense and spread a good message of forgiveness and empathy. I cannot imagine Jesus supporting Hitler in the murder of millions of his own people, also millions of people lost their faith after WW2 and the death camps as they couldn’t believe a loving God would allow it to happen, was he just testing people’s faith? But I agree the only logical conclusion according to Christian teachings is that life is only here for us to feel pain and suffer, but I don’t think that is what is generally being preached.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You guys need to stop looking at "morality" as some absolute standard. It is not. What is absolute is God. It is to this standard in which we must measure our decisions and actions. If they measure up then we know our actions are with in the expressed will of God and if they do not then we know we are in sin.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I don’t think morals are absolute, as they clearly change over time or even culture to culture. For example you need to use your own morals to decide what parts of the bible to follow and what to ignore, like slavery, sexism, rape etc. Many will argue these are just stories whilst believing the good parts were real often dismissing most of the OT. This is you using your own morals, not following the word of the bible.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Yes the Indians would have over powered the settlers or would have been hostile to them rather than welcoming.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Would this mean you can only win when God is on your side? So God wanted Americans to lose to Vietnam? Does God also allow suicide bombings, or would he have intervened if he didn’t?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It just seems that many actions are justified because ‘God is on their side’ but when so many disagree, what measure is used to tell?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The bible.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I think you may lack the conviction of your own statement. Do you not decide which parts of the bible are true? Are there not thousands of interpretations? So how can you say the bible is a moral standard we can all follow when it is open to such debate?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]How do you know if you are confronted by Christ? Because your knee will bow and your tongue will confess that He is indeed Lord. Their will be no doubt when He reveals Himself to you. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Free will…? I have another problem with this as Jesus would not perform any miracle just to convince someone, he would ask for faith. Well he certainly did last time, I have been told time and time again God/Jesus requires faith to get in to heaven and will not be tested. Why would the second coming be any different? [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]During that time "He" was the only one with Nail scared hands and feet with a wound in His left side walking around performing miricales, speaking to large crowds and literally was seen to ascend into Heaven. All the "other guys" fell alittle short in that area..[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
I can give pretty much the same answer as the above, Jesus would not perform miracles to prove himself. Otherwise there would be testable proof of God, but there isn’t at all. Time and time again the contradictions keep coming through, either God will prove himself or he wants us to have faith so which is it? Or can we follow this to the logical conclusion that it may be more likely he isn’t there?

 

[Curious Atheist]

You know God was behind Noa when the flood cover the earth. So, it's a question of being prudent and not just tell everyone is crazy.

You are free not to believe in Jesus. You are also imprudent at the same time.

No, I don't know God was behind anything at all. I am not calling someone crazy, I am saying how do you distinguish between craziness and God's word. You have to admit if someone told you that the world would flood and you need to build an Arc big enough for millions and millions of animals you would question them. So why is this imprudent? It is just common sense to question the impossible.
Why didn't God kill animals that could float or swim by the way? Why did they get a free ticket whilsts land-based organism were wiped out? Bit weird really.

 

[Curious Atheist]

Read again, I didn't say it was imprudent to question. I said it was imprudent to call directly "crazy" with no questions someone that says God ask him to do so.

But that doesn’t answer my question. So what questions could you ask to establish that the message came from God? Bear in mind the thousands (or even hundreds of millions) of people who claim so today. Especially when the message could make absolutely no sense like Noah’s ark and also bearing in mind God needs to keep our free will in check so it couldn’t be a miracle.

Also, I don't know why God didn't kill the animals that could swim. I guess it's because he didn't intend to kill the animal that couldn't swim, but he wanted to much to kill most of the angry humans so he ask Noa to build an arch to, at least, save the basic species. Does it answer your question?

If God didn’t want to kill the land animals I am sure he could have spared them, he can do anything. It does beg the question why he needed to drown creatures, why not just make them disappear in an instant? Why did he need to test Noah by building the Ark when he already would have known if he would have done so? He could have just spared Noah (and family), made everything evil go away and be done with it (could also ask why he rid us of evil then but won’t today). Not to mention the fact that two of each animal could not possibly fit (even eggs and babies), the inbreeding due to lack of genetic diversity would create terrible mutations followed by extinction. The story fails to make sense on every possible level or angle, even if he just took the ‘basic species’ as you put it, doesn’t that mean the other millions of species had to have evolved? Again, contradicting the creationist story.

Actually what I said was a trick question anyway, a flood like that would dilute the oceans and also kill all the fish. Did Noah have fish tanks on his ark also? But it does show how it is easy to make stuff up as you go along based on assumption doesn’t it

 

[Emmy]

Dear Curious Atheist. You had some good replies. I prefere short and to the point answers. I know that God approves all which is said, or done, or advocated, by selfless love and care, absolutely no conditions asked. Greetings fom Emmy, sister in Christ.

 

[Emmy]

Dear ViaCrucis. To have God on one`s side is wonderful and possible. That is why we are on this Earth, to LEARN to become as God WANTS us to be. I do admit it is not easy, but it is possible: God is Love and God wants loving children/sons and daughters. Jesus will give us His Love and Joy, and the Holy Spirit will give us His Love, also. Jesus told us to: " ask and ye will receive," then we thank God and share all Love and Joy( ours included) with all we know and all we meet. ( friends or not friends) If it was impossible for us to achieve, Jesus would not have told us: " Be ye as perfect as God is perfect." God wants us to do, to say, and to advocate, with love/kindness and consideration. We might never become " perfect as God" while on this Earth, BUT God will see how seriously we try to follow His Commandments to love. There also is God`s eternal Law of Justice, " What ye sow ye will reap," and in Matthew, chapter 22, verses 35-40, Jesus gives us the first and great Commandment: and the second is like it. " On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." I say this with love, ViaCrucis. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.

 

[razeontherock]

Firstly, the 'manifest destiny' where European settlers believed God wanted them to take America for their own and wipe out/subdue the indigenous, who had been their for thousands of years.
So, was this God's will? Was God on the side of the European settlers and for whatever reason didn't mind the slaughter of American Indians?

Secondly, when George Bush said God wanted him to invade Iraq, was this really God's will? How do you know one way or the other and what difference does it make?

You raise the issue of morality. US made treaties with NDN's, and didn't honor them. That was one of this Nation's first grave sins, with slavery being the other. We are paying dearly for both, and in the case of the NDN's, we are doing so monetarily. We didn't at all need to drive them from their land, and both where I live now and where I was raised, that was never done.

Handling both these issues would've slowed our growth as a Nation, preventing (or at least limiting) many evils.

Where we can know G-d was "on our side," was in our Revolutionary War, which our founding Fathers credited their success to G-d. Which is, by definition, saying they were NOT Deists, which has become a favorite hobby horse among academia

Iraq: somebody needed to stop Saddam. Nobody needed to uncover the WMD's, in the form of small arms dumps including RPG's, and abandon them, leaving them to be claimed by the 3rd largest army on the planet when returning home. Saddam was evil, not stupid!

 

[oi_antz]

It is fortunate for us that we don't all wear the yoke that the world leaders have to wear. With greater power comes greater responsibility and therefore more care needs to be executed for the decisions they make. This usually comes in the form of an advisory panel.

Ray showed an example of what happens when the conscience is overthrown in favor of evil, and it happens daily. Some people may be especially prone to that. What turns someone into a suicide bomber, or to bomb abortion clinics or to beat gays in the name of God - that is a tremendous question, I seriously hope we can get a satisfactory answer to that. So please remain patient with us while we put our heads together and we'll be able to boil it down. I would appreciate that

Obviously our relationship with God happens on His terms, but depends on our will. So while I am writing this, I am also mindful that God is watching and permitting my every action. I see it this way so I remain loyal to Him. I must admit there are times when I get complacent and am less mindful of how I am representing God. I wonder whether this is why people can become so consumed by thoughts they are fed from external sources and rather than communicating directly with God, they feel as though God's will is given them by their fellow man. Do you follow what I'm saying? It is as though they have surrendered God's will to their pastor or some superior leader of their faith. So when the President says "it is God's will", we each have to decide whether he is right or wrong. If you know God (and you have as much 'right' to pursue this as anyone does), then you have a responsibility to be honest about what God says. That means to stand against your fellow man when you know they conflict with your conscience. You will notice me doing this from time to time.

Does this help? What are your thoughts?

 

[elman]

This could possibly open a large can of worms leading to quotes of scripture etc. So with that in mind can we keep to a few examples? Please provide your own so as to not be bias.

I have two examples where America is concerned.

Firstly, the 'manifest destiny' where European settlers believed God wanted them to take America for their own and wipe out/subdue the indigenous, who had been their for thousands of years.
So, was this God's will? Was God on the side of the European settlers and for whatever reason didn't mind the slaughter of American Indians?

Secondly, when George Bush said God wanted him to invade Iraq, was this really God's will? How do you know one way or the other and what difference does it make?


I predict opinions will differ even with only these examples. So my question is how you can possibly tell which is the correct moral decision? Would there be any difference, ie if God wasn't behind the settlers would the taking of America proved impossible/trickier as they were going against God? I don't think any would argue it would have been, so really what is the difference?

It just seems that many actions are justified because ‘God is on their side’ but when so many disagree, what measure is used to tell? I don't think I need to give examples of the evil done in God's name for you to know what I am referring to.



I can bring in another question I asked before here (and didn’t get a satisfactory answer) which is that if Jesus was resurrected and stood in front of you, how could you tell it was Jesus? Bearing in mind that Jesus was one of many hundreds at the time who claimed to be divine and had their own followings. Also bearing in mind that throughout human history to this day humans have claimed to have divine powers or be Jesus themselves. Some are fooled, others remain sceptical so how would you know?


Thanks


James

I guess when we are on the Lord's side, then we can know He is on our side.

 

[Emmy]

Dear CuriousAtheist. I agree wholeheartedly with elman. God is Love, and God cannot ever be others. God`s eternal Law of Justice metes out Blessings for deserving men and women, and fitting consequences for all deeds unloving and uncaring. I say this with love. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.

 

[HeathenWarrior]

This could possibly open a large can of worms leading to quotes of scripture etc. So with that in mind can we keep to a few examples? Please provide your own so as to not be bias.

I have two examples where America is concerned.

Firstly, the 'manifest destiny' where European settlers believed God wanted them to take America for their own and wipe out/subdue the indigenous, who had been their for thousands of years.
So, was this God's will? Was God on the side of the European settlers and for whatever reason didn't mind the slaughter of American Indians?

Secondly, when George Bush said God wanted him to invade Iraq, was this really God's will? How do you know one way or the other and what difference does it make?


I predict opinions will differ even with only these examples. So my question is how you can possibly tell which is the correct moral decision? Would there be any difference, ie if God wasn't behind the settlers would the taking of America proved impossible/trickier as they were going against God? I don't think any would argue it would have been, so really what is the difference?

It just seems that many actions are justified because ‘God is on their side’ but when so many disagree, what measure is used to tell? I don't think I need to give examples of the evil done in God's name for you to know what I am referring to.



I can bring in another question I asked before here (and didn’t get a satisfactory answer) which is that if Jesus was resurrected and stood in front of you, how could you tell it was Jesus? Bearing in mind that Jesus was one of many hundreds at the time who claimed to be divine and had their own followings. Also bearing in mind that throughout human history to this day humans have claimed to have divine powers or be Jesus themselves. Some are fooled, others remain sceptical so how would you know?


Thanks


James

I don't think that the gods take sides on most human matters. They are mostly concerned with making sure with live with honor and virtue. The terrible things that many humans have done to each other is of our own doings, our own selfish desires. Such as the desolation wrought on the Native Americans. Truly a sad example of humans being inhuman to each other.

As for Jesus, I would not know him instantly. But when I started seeing the love and morality of the caliber he showed, then I would begin to suspect something was up.