betterorworse
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Jesus is proof of judgement on the world, no excuses.
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Incorrect, the greek word is katargoumenēn καταργουμένην, which is a present participle. It is present. It is literally translated as 'is fading'
Incorrect, the greek word is katargoumenon καταργούμενον, which is a present participle. it is literally translated as 'is fading away'
Let's look at the tense of the verbs in hebrews 8:13
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is growing old and aging is ready to vanish away.
He has made obsolete - perfect indicative active - past tense
pepalaiōken πεπαλαίωκεν
Growing old - present participle - present tense
palaioumenon παλαιούμενον
Aging - present participle - present tense
gēraskon γηράσκον
Vanish away - Present participle - present tense
aphanismou ἀφανισμοῦ.
How could their be 2 peoples and under 2 different covenants, if the old was done away with.
Additionally are there any verses that specifically state the old covenant was done away with at the cross?
Just go back to the beginning of chapter 7, paul is speaking specifically to the Jews. A jew couldn't be bound to the law and to Christ, that would be adultery. How could a Jew be bound to law after the cross, if it ended when Christ died?
Romans 7:1-3 Or do you not know, brothersa—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives? 2For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage.b 3Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress.
For us, even if we wanted to attempt to serve the law of Moses in this present day, we couldn't as the temple was destroyed in 70 ad. It is literally impossible to follow the law of moses today.
Nobody truly knows Biblical Greek because they did not grow up writing and speaking Biblical Greek.
For we will not be held accountable to knowing God’s Word in another language we cannot truly know. But we will be held accountable to God in the Word of God in our own language.
Anyways, not that you probably care, or will ever check it out, there are actually many evidences that prove the KJV is divine in origin.
For I have given you the plain meaning of God’s Word in the language we are now communicating in.
If you don’t accept that, then that is your choice (but it will have consequences).
If you are interested, I can provide them for you. But I know most do not want to hear that.
If you have the Holy Spirit then all sin is willful. All of it.
https://www.christianforums.com/thr...old-covenant-end.8078338/page-3#post-73091158
^^^ you agreed with my above post. So I'm going on this premise, that you understand that portion of the new covenant.
Prior to committing sin the Holy Spirit warns us, tells us x is wrong to do and to avoid x.
If, for any reason you still do x, then you have done so with full knowledge, and any time you do a thing with full knowledge then it was willful.
We are human, we are faulty. There are going to be times someone still does x.
God forgives us even so, if we go to God with a contrite spirit in full repentance..
Your doctrine attempt to deny God's people of forgiveness, and cut them off from the Throne of God.
Now, thank God you and your doctrine doesn't control who receives forgiveness from the Throne of God or else we'd all be in hell, but this is the point. There is no excuse for any sin, all sin if full of the Holy Spirit is willfull.
And, the fact is, there is still forgiveness for God's people even still so long as the repentance is sincere.
So you have never lied, cheated, hated, put things before God, stole, coveted....after becoming a Christian?
Wow, must be nice, I guess you can be thankful your not a sinner like me.No. Why, have you??? If you have, you don't have a foundation to stand on.
Wow, must be nice, I guess you can be thankful your not a sinner like me.
Yes, I have. I am not proud of my failings. I continue everyday to ask for forgiveness and the strength to overcome. I do not want to sin, but thanks be God that I have an advocate for when I do. I long for the day when God will rescue me from this wretched body.
Also, You didn't answer my question. Was John writing to the 'little children' so that they may not unintentionally sin?
1 John 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin
So, in other words, we have no idea if our current translations are correct. If nobody truly knows biblical greek, how could scholars translate it?
So Jehovah Witnesses are not held accountable for believing an inaccurately translated bible?
The KJV was translated from the Textus Receptus, which was Greek.
You have given me your opinion on the KJV translation of the Greek word. It is not a fact though. The fact is that the greek word for καταργουμένην (is fading) is a present participle. You can choose to deny that if you want. but it doesn't change the fact.
That's a subjective statement. I could say the same about you. If you don't accept the true meaning of the greek word that is your choice.
Since this is not the topic of OP, here is not best place for that. But if you want to start a new thread, I would happy to hear it there.
Unintentionally sinning is part of our imperfections
Jesus said to be perfect.
We can obtain perfection while living in our fleshly bodies?That takes time.
When it gets to grammatical hair-splitting, those hairs are being split on points that are ultimately irrelevant.
Nobody's salvation hangs on being an advanced scholar of koine Greek.
We must ask forgiveness for all of our sins.
Well, since you state you have not broke any of the 10 commandments after becoming a Christian...
Jesus replied, “ ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19honor your father and mother,’c and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’d ”
20“All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”
Have you sold ALL of your possessions and given to the poor yet?
21Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
We can obtain perfection while living in our fleshly bodies?
It appears you are preaching the doctrine of perfectionism, which is a false doctrine.
*** AGAIN, you did not answer my question:
Was John writing to the 'little children' so that they may not unintentionally sin?
1 John 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin
We must ask forgiveness for all of our sins.
Have you sold ALL of your possessions and given to the poor yet?
21Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
*** AGAIN, you did not answer my question:
Was John writing to the 'little children' so that they may not unintentionally sin?
1 John 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin
I agree, but in a general sense. You can't be specific if you don't know you've sinned.
Yes, the Spirit leads us into all truth, but not all on day one. It took me 23 years to get out of a false religion. Then another year to get me out of the legalistic denomination I was in next. Then 6 years to become filled with the Spirit. And only at that last point was I a true Christian. But even then I didn't know everything that God considered sin. The only thing that changed from before was my will to sin was gone. I was dead to sin.
My greatest concern for the Church is knowing that in all my attending church and studying the Bible for the first 30 years of my life, I wasn't saved from sin yet. I was merely in being drawn by the Holy Spirit. Many in the Church at large will know much, but with all their knowledge they have no power. To them Jesus will say, I never knew you. In our eyes they are saved. In God's eyes, they are not. Whose eyes matter?
Giving is not the problem. I'm broke from all the giving. But even Ananias and Saphira gave. They just didn't give all they said they were giving. They lied.
I did to. What more do you want? What don't you understand?
Chapter one is about the importance of walking in the light. Those are God's children. But as 1 John 1:7 shows, that even when you are walking in the light, the blood of Jesus continues to cleanse us from sin.
THOSE are the sins 1 John 2:1 is talking about. They are not willful sins, as the Spirit will not lead you into willful sin.
But even unintentional sin can be avoided by cooperation with the Spirit
So no one is a true Christian yet until they have received the power to no longer willfully sin?
Correct, giving is not the problem. However, one saying they are 'doing' everything right is a problem.
there is always something that we, even after becoming, Christian do not do perfectly, even if we say we follow the 10 commandments perfectly.
You did? maybe I missed it, Which post # before this did you answer my question prior to post 94?
Was John writing to the 'little children' so that they may not unintentionally sin?
1 John 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin
That is your opinion, which you are entitled to. To prove your opinion, Where does 1 john 2:1 state 'unintentional'?
so if one can avoid unintentional sin and and wilfull sin, then you believe perfection can be obtained in the flesh prior to the resurrection? That is a false doctrine known as perfectionism.
I see your testimony:I agree, but in a general sense. You can't be specific if you don't know you've sinned.
And I see your concern about the Church:Yes, the Spirit leads us into all truth, but not all on day one. It took me 23 years to get out of a false religion. Then another year to get me out of the legalistic denomination I was in next. Then 6 years to become filled with the Spirit. And only at that last point was I a true Christian. But even then I didn't know everything that God considered sin. The only thing that changed from before was my will to sin was gone. I was dead to sin.
My greatest concern for the Church is knowing that in all my attending church and studying the Bible for the first 30 years of my life, I wasn't saved from sin yet. I was merely in being drawn by the Holy Spirit. Many in the Church at large will know much, but with all their knowledge they have no power. To them Jesus will say, I never knew you. In our eyes they are saved. In God's eyes, they are not. Whose eyes matter?
The OT was full of Law and conditional covenants and prophesy of the Messiah that were given to Israel..not to the other NATIONS.
Correct, it doesn't.It doesn't there in so many words
but John does show us in the fifth chapter about sins unto death, and sins NOT unto death.
Then in the Old Testament is shows what sins unto death are - willful sins.
Taking verses out of context, and you will get into false doctrine
There are so many verses about "perfectionism in the New Testament, I don't know how you missed them all. But, of course, you must also believe them. Exactly what religion you are? Even modern Christianity is made up of different doctrines. Are you Calvinist? That would explain a lot.