When did the Israelites begin keeping the Sabbath?

[BobRyan]

The question is if the Apostles didn't teach Sabbath keeping why is it some feel they have to teach it now?

Heb 4 "There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God"
Act 18:4 - every Sabbath Paul preached the gospel to gentiles and Jews.

James 2- to break one commandment is to break them all.

That is what the Apostles were saying.

I don't see how that part is even a little bit confusing

 

[BobRyan]

We know the Israelites didn't proselytize.

We see that they proselytized in the book of Acts (see chapter 13, chapter 17, chapter 18). And Jesus said they were proselytizing in his day in Matt 23.

They had so many chances to tell other nations about the Sabbath, given only to them by God

No wonder we see non-Christian Gentiles worshipping with Jews in the synagogues every Sabbath - in Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18 ...

 

[Bob S]

Heb 4 "There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God"

Hebrews was written for 6the enlightenment of the Jews. Jews were already observing the Sabbath. They rested on the Sabbath keeping in according to the Law, yet Hebrews tells the Jews that they have never entered the rest God had for them. Is the writer teaching Sabbath keeping? Why would Jews need to be taught? They had been observing the Sabbath for centuries.

Your answer is completely deceiving as being the true meaning of Chapter 4. The rest Jews did not accept was/is Jesus.

Act 18:4 - every Sabbath Paul preached the gospel to gentiles and Jews

Sabbath is not the Gospel. Teaching that God came to this Earth to save mankind is the Gospel. Paul merely used Sabbath because that is where He could find a large group to spread the Gospel.

.

James 2- to break one commandment is to break them all.

James was referring to the Royal Law of Love which includes murder and adultery not just the nine commands of morality.

That is what the Apostles were saying.

It is more like what you are saying not them.

I don't see how that part is even a little bit confusing

I understand Bob. I was confused for many years because I accepted SDA teachings hook, line, and sinker. It wasn't until I started studying Scripture without the church's guidance that I found the real meaning of the Gospel. The Gospel is not about keeping days, it is all about salvation. Jesus is not asking us to observe days, He is asking us to love others as He loves us.

Just think if all mankind loved as Jesus taught we could proclaim what a wonderful world this really is. As it is Satan has caused man to hate each other. How much hate will it take before our Savior says enough? Come, Lord Jesus!

 

[BobRyan]

Hebrews was written for 6the enlightenment of the Jews.

All scripture is given by inspiration from God AND is to be used for doctrine and correction (2 Tim 3:16)

Jews were already observing the Sabbath.

Yep. Interesting that the Disciples were all Jews.

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the commandments of God"
Where - the "first commandment with a promise - is Honor your father and mother" Eph 6:2

They rested on the Sabbath keeping in according to the Law

No doubt.

As the Jewish Apostle John wrote "sin IS the transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4

, yet Hebrews tells the Jews that they have never entered the rest God had for them

Except Jews such as all the Jews of Heb 11.

Which included Moses and Elijah standing in glory with Christ in Matt 17 - before the cross event even happened.

. Is the writer teaching Sabbath keeping? Why would Jews need to be taught?

For the same reason Paul says "Honor your father and mother" in Eph 6:2

They had been observing the Sabbath for centuries.

no doubt.

Your answer is completely deceiving

depends on whether you feel the need to toss out that commandment of God or not.

Sabbath is not the Gospel.

Neither is "do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7.

God's Law is not "deleted" because it is not "the gospel" all by itself. Yet it is included in one of the key New Covenant promises found in Jer 31 and in Heb 8.

But in the Gospel covenant - Jer 31:31-34 we find the "Law written on the heart" - as Paul notes in Heb 8:6-12

Rom 3:31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? Far from it! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

yep - that is what the New Covenant does

31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers on the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “For this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord:
1. “I will put My law within them and write it on their heart;
2. and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
3. 34 They will not teach again, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord,
4. “for I will forgive their wrongdoing, and their sin I will no longer remember.”

Teaching that God came to this Earth to save mankind is the Gospel.

Indeed - Man has fallen into sin- "Sin is transgression of the Law of God" 1 John 3:4.
Because of that - all mankind needs the gospel Rom 3:19-20
Which brings about the 4 promises we find in the NEW Covenant what we see in Jer 31 and in Heb 8.

Paul merely used Sabbath because that is where He could find a large group to spread the Gospel.

"every Sabbath" Acts 18:4 Paul was preaching the Gospel to both gentiles and Jews. In a worship service, Gospel proclamation -- "every Sabbath"

Acts 13 - GENTILES ask for "more gospel preaching " to be scheduled again for them "THE NEXT Sabbath" -- at which point " almost the entire town showed up" Acts 13:44

It was not the Jews making that request for "Next Sabbath" in Acts 13 -- it was the Gentiles.

James was referring to the Royal Law of Love which includes murder and adultery not just the nine commands of morality.

Turns out - the commandments against murder and adultery are included in those TEN Commandments.

(Turns out there is no such term as "The NINE Commandments" in all of scripture - as we all know)

Deut 5:22 "God spoke the TEN Words and added no more"

I was confused for many years

No doubt.

It wasn't until I started studying Scripture without the church's guidance that I found the real meaning of the Gospel.

I look forward to having a discussion with you where you are studying the scriptures and paying attention to the details as we see them in scripture. I applaud your decision to do that.

 

[Bob S]

• Yesterday at 6:51 PM
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    Hebrews was written for 6the enlightenment of the Jews.

    Bob R wrote: All scripture is given by inspiration from God AND is to be used for doctrine and correction (2 Tim 3:16)
    
    
    Bobs: All scripture is not for all people. Your answer is without merit Bob Ryan.
    
    

    Jews were already observing the Sabbath.

    Bob R wrote: Yep. Interesting that the Disciples were all Jews.
    
    1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the commandments of God"
    Where - the "first commandment with a promise - is Honor your father and mother" Eph 6:2
    
    Bobs: Answer has no merit.
    

    They rested on the Sabbath keeping in according to the Law

    No doubt.
    
    As the Jewish Apostle John wrote "sin IS the transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4
    
    Bobs: Answer has no merit.
    

    , yet Hebrews tells the Jews that they have never entered the rest God had for them

    Bob R wrote: Except Jews such as all the Jews of Heb 11.
    
    Which included Moses and Elijah standing in glory with Christ in Matt 17 - before the cross event even happened.
    
    Bobs: Another non answer. The writer wrote that Jews had never entered God's rest, but they were Sabbath rest observers. So, the real fact is that the writer was not referring to keeping the Seventh-Day Holy, he was referring to another kind of Rest. If you're not able to see the facts of the matter then it is really useless to proceed.
    
    
    
    

 

[BNR32FAN]

The argument that God's Sabbath was not known until Sinai is based upon a false assumption. Here is more evidence this is so.

Exodus 5: 5 And Pharaoh said, Behold, the people of the land now are many, and ye make them rest from their burdens.

The word rest comes from the Hebrew word meaning:

[*StrongsHebrew*]
7673
שׁבת
shâbath shaw-bath'
A primitive root; to {repose} that {is} desist from exertion; used in many implied relations ({causatively} figuratively or specifically): - (cause {to} {let} make to) {cease} {celebrate} cause (make) to {fail} keep ({sabbath}) suffer to be {lacking} {leave} put away ({down}) (make to) {rest} {rid} {still} take away.

The word translated as Sabbath in the 4th commandment comes from:

[*StrongsHebrew*]
7676
שׁבּת
shabbâth shab-bawth'
Intensive from H7673; {intermission} that {is} (specifically) the Sabbath: - (+ every) sabbath.

Thus the word Sabbath in the OT is just an intensification of what Pharoah accused Moses and Aaron of doing to the Israelites. Therefore the Sabbath was known before Sinai.

Also the 10 commandments were known long before then.

Genesis 39: 7 ¶ And it came to pass after these things, that his master’s wife cast her eyes upon Joseph; and she said, Lie with me.
8 But he refused, and said unto his master’s wife, Behold, my master wotteth not what is with me in the house, and he hath committed all that he hath to my hand;
9 There is none greater in this house than I; neither hath he kept back any thing from me but thee, because thou art his wife: how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?

.

Moses asked Pharaoh if they could go into the wilderness for 3 days so that they could offer sacrifices for The Lord because that’s what God told him to do in chapter 3. There’s nothing that indicates that this is referring to the Saturday Sabbath.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The argument that God's Sabbath was not known until Sinai is based upon a false assumption. Here is more evidence this is so.

Exodus 5: 5 And Pharaoh said, Behold, the people of the land now are many, and ye make them rest from their burdens.

The word rest comes from the Hebrew word meaning:

[*StrongsHebrew*]
7673
שׁבת
shâbath shaw-bath'
A primitive root; to {repose} that {is} desist from exertion; used in many implied relations ({causatively} figuratively or specifically): - (cause {to} {let} make to) {cease} {celebrate} cause (make) to {fail} keep ({sabbath}) suffer to be {lacking} {leave} put away ({down}) (make to) {rest} {rid} {still} take away.

The word translated as Sabbath in the 4th commandment comes from:

[*StrongsHebrew*]
7676
שׁבּת
shabbâth shab-bawth'
Intensive from H7673; {intermission} that {is} (specifically) the Sabbath: - (+ every) sabbath.

Thus the word Sabbath in the OT is just an intensification of what Pharoah accused Moses and Aaron of doing to the Israelites. Therefore the Sabbath was known before Sinai.

Also the 10 commandments were known long before then.

Genesis 39: 7 ¶ And it came to pass after these things, that his master’s wife cast her eyes upon Joseph; and she said, Lie with me.
8 But he refused, and said unto his master’s wife, Behold, my master wotteth not what is with me in the house, and he hath committed all that he hath to my hand;
9 There is none greater in this house than I; neither hath he kept back any thing from me but thee, because thou art his wife: how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?

.

Again we don’t know what commandments were given. I would say it’s possible but I wouldn’t say it is definite since there’s no evidence to support it.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Really? Saying he couldn't commit a sin against God isn't evidence of knowing the 10 commandments? Explain how Joseph knew it was a sin outside of knowing the 10 commandments as sin is the transgression of the law.

Adam & Eve sinned against God yet they didn’t break the 10 commandments. God said to Cain “if you do not do well sin is crouching at the door”. Apparently Cain knew what sin was so it would seem that some commandments were probably given but I wouldn’t start pretending that I know what they were.

 

[BNR32FAN]

God in His own Words said the Sabbath started at Creation and Jesus reminded us the Sabbath was made for mankind.

God brings us back to Creation week right in the Sabbath commandment because He never wants us to forget where we came from and Who created us, its why the devil hates the Sabbath so much and constantly attacks and made a counterfeit sabbath, because God's Sabbath shows God is the Authority over all heaven and earth and only He has the power to Create- when we obey Him the way He asks it shows we submit to His Authority -He is our God- we are His people Eze 20:20

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Man was created on the sixth day Gen 1:26 in the image of God to follow Him, hence the command to also rest and keep the Sabbath day holy, thus saith the Lord. Exo 20:8-11

Jesus reminds us that the Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27- man came first, then the Sabbath before Jew or Gentile and was part of God's perfect plan before sin entered and spoiled everything and deceived Eve like he has with the majority Rev 12:9.

Arguing that the Sabbath didn't start at Creation is an argument one will have to take up with a much Higher Authority! God was clear as He could be about this. Just like He is clear the Sabbath is never going anywhere for His faithful servants Isa 56:1-7 Isa 66:22-23 God changes not. Heb 13:8

God rested on the 7th day, nowhere do the scriptures say that anyone rested on the 7th day before Exodus or that God ever have such a commandment before Exodus. When you make statements like this it shows how desperate you are to formulate doctrines that are not supported by the scriptures. Just let the scriptures say what they say and be content with it.

 

[BobRyan]

Bob R wrote: All scripture is given by inspiration from God AND is to be used for doctrine and correction (2 Tim 3:16)


Bobs: All scripture is not for all people. Your answer is without merit Bob Ryan.

You have free will - you can ignore all the scripture that you wish.
I choose to read it and pay attention to the details.

Bob R wrote: Yep. Interesting that the Disciples were all Jews.

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the commandments of God"
Where - the "first commandment with a promise - is Honor your father and mother" Eph 6:2

Bobs: Answer has no merit.

You have free will - you can ignore all the scripture that you wish.
I choose to read it and pay attention to the details.

BobRyan said: As the Jewish Apostle John wrote "sin IS the transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4

Bobs: Answer has no merit.

You have free will - you can ignore all the scripture that you wish.
I choose to read it and pay attention to the details.

BobRyan wrote IN response to "Jews as NT Christians" : Christian Jews such as all the Jews of Heb 11.

Which included Moses and Elijah standing in glory with Christ in Matt 17 - before the cross event even happened.

Bobs: Another non answer.

You still have free will -
I still choose to read scripture and pay attention to the details.

The writer (in Heb 4) wrote that Jews had never entered God's rest,

Except for Christian Jews such as all the Jews of Heb 11, and of course Moses in Heb 3 "Faithful" as Paul points out both in Heb 3 and Heb 11.

but they were Sabbath rest observers

Indeed. And they were also engaged in opposing the idea of taking God's name in vain.
We call can see that.,

Deut 6:5 - Love God with all your heart -- OT
Lev 19:18 - Love your neighbor as yourself - OT
Jer 31:31-34 -- NEW Covenant - OT

. So, the real fact is that the writer was not referring to keeping the Seventh-Day Holy

Need a text for that

 

[SabbathBlessings]

God rested on the 7th day, nowhere do the scriptures say that anyone rested on the 7th day before Exodus or that God ever have such a commandment before Exodus. When you make statements like this it shows how desperate you are to formulate doctrines that are not supported by the scriptures. Just let the scriptures say what they say and be content with it.

Weird you would think Adam and Eve didn't rest with God on the very first Sabbath, but instead rebelled and did their own thing after they were just created by God.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Weird you would think Adam and Eve didn't rest with God on the very first Sabbath, but instead rebelled and did their own thing after they were just created by God.

I’m really glad we’re having this discussion because it shows everyone how far you are willing to go to push your doctrines. You’re literally making this up completely from your own imagination.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I’m really glad we’re having this discussion because it shows everyone how far you are willing to go to push your doctrines. You’re literally making this up completely from your own imagination.

God rested and hallowed the seventh day Sabbath at Creation Exo 20:11 right after making man in His own image to follow Him. Gen 1:26 The Sabbath was made for man Mar 2:27, man came first Gen 1:26 than the Sabbath Gen 2:1-3, you are free to believe what you want, but I am placing my faith in Jesus that Adam and Eve rested with God on the Sabbath He said was made for them (and us) instead of rebelling the day after they were made.

 

[BNR32FAN]

God rested and hallowed the seventh day Sabbath at Creation Exo 20:11 right after making man in His own image to follow Him. Gen 1:26 The Sabbath was made for man Mat 2:27, man came first Gen 1:26 than the Sabbath Gen 2:1-3, you are free to believe what you want, but I am placing my faith in Jesus that Adam and Eve rested with God on the Sabbath He said was made for them (and us) instead of rebelling the day after they were made.

No you’re adding to scripture things that are not there. It’s really simple to prove me wrong. Just quote where God commanded Adam to keep the sabbath or quote a verse that says that Adam rested on the sabbath. Neither of these verses exist.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

No you’re adding to scripture things that are not there. It’s really simple to prove me wrong. Just quote where God commanded Adam to keep the sabbath or quote a verse that says that Adam rested on the sabbath. Neither of these verses exist.

I don’t think you’re understanding- God made man in His image- what do you think Adam and Eve did when they were just created in the image of God, His likeness when God on the seventh day Sabbath rested, that we are told the Sabbath was made for man, that God just created Gen 1:26. Did Adam and Eve tell God, thanks for making the Sabbath for us, but no thanks, we don’t keep the Sabbath, that is made for Jews or use all the ridiculous arguments man uses now against obeying God. You would need to prove your case they did something different than what God did after they were just made in His likeness.

 

[BobRyan]

Weird you would think Adam and Eve didn't rest with God on the very first Sabbath, but instead rebelled and did their own thing after they were just created by God.

Mark 2:27 "made for mankind" - where in Gen 2:2-3 -- "mankind" is just Adam and Eve
Ex 20:11 made a holy day binding on all mankind --- back in Gen 2:2-3 according to Ex 20:11

Baptist Confession of Faith - Section 19 - admits that this starts in Gen 2.

So also does D.L. Moody admit to it.

No you’re adding to scripture things that are not there. It’s really simple to prove me wrong. Just quote where God commanded Adam to keep the sabbath or quote a verse that says that Adam rested on the sabbath. Neither of these verses exist.

Almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued *"unit of TEN" for Christians today
[*]The Baptist Confession of Faith section 19
[*]The Westminster Confession of Faith section 19
[*]Voddie Baucham
[*]C.H. Spurgeon
[*]D.L. Moody
[*]Dies Domini by Pope John Paul II
[*]D. James Kennedy
[*]R.C. Sproul
[*]many others as well..

So then starting in Gen 2:2-3 it was forbidden to take God's name in vain.

But unlike that commandment - also for mankind - the one that Christ specifically says was "made for mankind" is the Sabbath commandment in Mark 2:27. Not mankind made for the Sabbath., In the 7 day week that saw the making of both.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Mark 2:27 "made for mankind" - where in Gen 2:2-3 -- "mankind" is just Adam and Eve
Ex 20:11 made a holy day binding on all mankind --- back in Gen 2:2-3 according to Ex 20:11

Baptist Confession of Faith - Section 19 - admits that this starts in Gen 2.

So also does D.L. Moody admit to it.


Almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued *"unit of TEN" for Christians today
[*]The Baptist Confession of Faith section 19
[*]The Westminster Confession of Faith section 19
[*]Voddie Baucham
[*]C.H. Spurgeon
[*]D.L. Moody
[*]Dies Domini by Pope John Paul II
[*]D. James Kennedy
[*]R.C. Sproul
[*]many others as well..

So then starting in Gen 2:2-3 it was forbidden to take God's name in vain.

But unlike that commandment - also for mankind - the one that Christ specifically says was "made for mankind" is the Sabbath commandment in Mark 2:27. Not mankind made for the Sabbath., In the 7 day week that saw the making of both.

I don’t create doctrines from my own imagination. My doctrines are supported by scripture. Now if you want to speculate that it is plausible that the 10 commandments were given to Adam that’s one thing but teaching it as a biblical fact is irresponsible theology. This is how heresies are formulated.

 

[BobRyan]

I don’t create doctrines from my own imagination. My doctrines are supported by scripture. Now if you want to speculate that it is plausible that the 10 commandments were given to Adam that’s one thing

I see .. so then speculating that "it would be sin for Adam to take God's name in vain" (for example) is ok in your POV? I would agree.

Not only that but in Gen 6,7,8 we see the distinction between clean and unclean animals - but no definition is in the text for the terms. It is not until Lev 11 that Moses tells his readers about the definition of the terms. I guess that is also "ok" to notice.

And it must be ok to notice - that the same author (Moses) is writing to the same audience (Israel) and so they have all the books by the time of his death. More than that they have all of Genesis from the very start and they have all of Leviticus at Sinai when Moses gives the books he has written to the Priests to be read to all of Israel. Meaning it is ok for him to use the terms "clean and unclean" in Gen 7 (for example) since the terms will be defined in the books given at Sinai.

but teaching it as a biblical fact is irresponsible theology.

Depends on how many Bible details you are determined to ignore - as I note in my comments above.

Is it any wonder then that - we see this -

Mark 2:27 "made for mankind" - where in Gen 2:2-3 -- "mankind" is just Adam and Eve
Ex 20:11 made a holy day binding on all mankind --- back in Gen 2:2-3 according to Ex 20:11


Baptist Confession of Faith - Section 19 - admits that this starts in Gen 2.
So also does D.L. Moody admit to it.

The wild notion that one has to observe the Bible's seventh day Sabbath to see the obvious Bible facts above is refuted by the example of the many Christian denominations that admit to those Bible facts without also choosing to honor the seventh-day Sabbath of the Bible.