When did the created world become our enemy?

[Light of the East]

I ask this because it seems that those who eschew the created world and the legitimate pleasures in it are those who find God in this life. There seems to be a synergy between ascetic practice and spirituality, as if to eat and enjoy certain foods, to participate in the world's pleasures, including a spouse and children, is an impediment to true spiritual growth.

What makes me think of this is reading stories of the Mount Athos monks. They practice fasting, much prayer, quiet, reflection, and other disciplines, including being solitary and away from the world. Yet they are the ones performing true miracles.

So to the unenlightened, it seems that the very world that God created for our enjoyment, and which St. Paul said was made for us, is really and in actuality a hindrance to coming to a deep and true knowledge of God.

How did this happen?

It seems you have two choices - enjoy the world and its legitimate pleasures but do not come to a deep knowledge of God, or deny those pleasures, engage in serious ascetic practice, and develop a deep relationship with the unknown God.

Comments?

(AGAIN - PLEASE, ONLY COMMENTS FROM THOSE IN THE ORTHODOX CHURCH!!!!)

 

[mukk_in]

I ask this because it seems that those who eschew the created world and the legitimate pleasures in it are those who find God in this life. There seems to be a synergy between ascetic practice and spirituality, as if to eat and enjoy certain foods, to participate in the world's pleasures, including a spouse and children, is an impediment to true spiritual growth.

What makes me think of this is reading stories of the Mount Athos monks. They practice fasting, much prayer, quiet, reflection, and other disciplines, including being solitary and away from the world. Yet they are the ones performing true miracles.

So to the unenlightened, it seems that the very world that God created for our enjoyment, and which St. Paul said was made for us, is really and in actuality a hindrance to coming to a deep and true knowledge of God.

How did this happen?

It seems you have two choices - enjoy the world and its legitimate pleasures but do not come to a deep knowledge of God, or deny those pleasures, engage in serious ascetic practice, and develop a deep relationship with the unknown God.

Comments?

(AGAIN - PLEASE, ONLY COMMENTS FROM THOSE IN THE ORTHODOX CHURCH!!!!)

I'd say that this decaying world turned against us when Adam turned his back on God. Peace in Christ and Merry Christmas .

 

[Tolworth John]

So to the unenlightened, it seems that the very world that God created for our enjoyment, and which St. Paul said was made for us, is really and in actuality a hindrance to coming to a deep and true knowledge of God.

Strange, jesus and the disciples lived fully in the world and had a real and deep knowledge of God.

Whether we have material things or don't have them is not why we don't know God, but it is the intent of our spirit that hidders us.

 

[~Anastasia~]

It's not quite so simple as that.

Yes, those who do true miracles tend to be the ones who bear the grace of the Holy Spirit, and they often get there through asceticism.

But it's not by way of hating the world as if it's evil. A proper appreciation of the created world is actually part of the process of theosis in some writings - to see God's hand in creation, enjoy it with thankfulness and giving glory to Him. (Theoria)

The problem is when our enjoyment is selfish and just feeds our appetite for pleasure, turning our attention that much more to self and exciting those pleasurable responses so that we seek them the more next time.

Everything can be tailored to the individual. It's not a one-size-fits-all appriach to discipline and faith. What was beneficial to a particular Saint might not be something we need to do ... and vice versa - we may struggle with something and need a discipline to deal with it that that particular Saint never struggled with.

There are instances where the Saints delight in creation. It doesn't necessarily separate us from God to do so. It's all in us as individual persons, our struggles and tendencies, and how we enjoy creation that determines the effect.

 

[ArmyMatt]

the ascetics of the Holy Mountain don't hate the world per say, only it's fallenness. by denying the love for the fallen side, we all actually show our love for the world as God created it to be, and therefore we accept it as a gift from God and re-offer it to Him, only to accept even more of the bounty from God again.

it ain't the world that's the problem, it's what we do with it that is.

 

[Chesterton]

So to the unenlightened, it seems that the very world that God created for our enjoyment, and which St. Paul said was made for us, is really and in actuality a hindrance to coming to a deep and true knowledge of God.

St. Paul also spoke of those "whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things". I always liked "their god is their belly"; it sums up a really big idea in a few words. And since Rus is gone, G. K. Chesterton said "we should thank God for beer and Burgundy by not drinking too much of them."