When did the Church which is Christs Body begin?

Marilyn C

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That is not what Romans 16:7 actually states literally.

Those 2 are in Christ, just like Peter and the other 11 apostles post Acts.

But Peter and the 11 are not in the Body of Christ. If you can accept that, that means you can also accept that Andronicus and Junia need not be in the Body of Christ.
Yes, I do accept that the 12 apostles of the Lamb, are not in the Body of Christ, as the Lord told them they have another inheritance.

Now Andronicus and Junia were ascension apostles before Paul, as also was Barnabas, (Acts 9: 27, 14: 14)
 
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Guojing

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Yes, I do accept that the 12 apostles of the Lamb, are not in the Body of Christ, as the Lord told them they have another inheritance.

Now Andronicus and Junia were ascension apostles before Paul, as also was Barnabas, (Acts 9: 27, 14: 14)

I don't understand the term "ascension apostles".

You seem to be using it frequently. What exactly does that term mean and what are the scripture references for that term?
 
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Marilyn C

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I don't understand the term "ascension apostles".

You seem to be using it frequently. What exactly does that term mean and what are the scripture references for that term?
Oh, sorry. The term ascension apostles or ministries refers to the ministries of the ascended Lord. When He ascended He `gave some to be ......` (Eph. 4: 11) They were for the equipping of the saints to do the work of the ministry. (Eph. 4: 12)
 
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Guojing

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Oh, sorry. The term ascension apostles or ministries refers to the ministries of the ascended Lord. When He ascended He `gave some to be ......` (Eph. 4: 11) They were for the equipping of the saints to do the work of the ministry. (Eph. 4: 12)

So you regard them as apostles with the small s, meaning anyone deemed as an apostle that is not Paul nor the the 12 post Acts.

So if you can accept that Peter and the 11 are not in the Body of Christ, why is it difficult then to believe that those 2 mentioned in Romans 16:7 may fall into that category as well?

The fundamental question is, if those 2 were in the Body of Christ before Paul, does that mean you also believe the Body of Christ was not a mystery that was first revealed to Paul?
 
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Marilyn C

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So you regard them as apostles with the small s, meaning anyone deemed as an apostle that is not Paul nor the the 12 post Acts.

So if you can accept that Peter and the 11 are not in the Body of Christ, why is it difficult then to believe that those 2 mentioned in Romans 16:7 may fall into that category as well?

The fundamental question is, if those 2 were in the Body of Christ before Paul, does that mean you also believe the Body of Christ was not a mystery that was first revealed to Paul?
The mystery of the Body of Christ was revealed to Paul, (which we both agree on). However, that does not mean that Christ the Head did not start to build His called-out ones, (in the Body) before that. Paul was given the doctrine, the understanding of what the Lord was doing. And we know from God`s word that that doctrine was over a period of time. So, do we say the Body of Christ had not started till all the doctrine was known? No.

The Lord is not limited to when people know of what He is doing. God was giving Israel time to repent and receive the Holy Spirit. But, we see in Acts 28 that the leaders could not agree and thus not only rejected the Lord but also the Holy Spirit.
 
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Dan Perez

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Yes, I do accept that the 12 apostles of the Lamb, are not in the Body of Christ, as the Lord told them they have another inheritance.

Now Andronicus and Junia were ascension apostles before Paul, as also was Barnabas, (Acts 9: 27, 14: 14)
To be an apostle and to be considered , one to take Judas , position , that one had to be an eye witness of Jesus resurrection , Acts 1:21 and 22 .

dan p
 
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Marilyn C

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To be an apostle and to be considered , one to take Judas , position , that one had to be an eye witness of Jesus resurrection , Acts 1:21 and 22 .

dan p
Hi dan,

Good point and one that needs to be addressed. Yes in Acts 1: 21 & 22 we see that those of the 12 (pre-cross apostles) were to have witnessed Jesus Christ`s life, death and resurrection. That is what they were to witness of. That is foundational. The 12 are a special group that the Lord had for a special purpose, (witness of His resurrection) and also their inheritance, (Matt. 19: 28) to rule over the 12 tribes of Israel.

Then when the Lord ascended, He was made Head of the Body and gave ministries of Himself to equip the believers to do the work of the ministry. These apostles were given after the Lord ascended and were for the Body of Christ. They wont be ruling over the 12 tribes of Israel. (Eph. 4: 11 & 12)

Marilyn.
 
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Guojing

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The mystery of the Body of Christ was revealed to Paul, (which we both agree on). However, that does not mean that Christ the Head did not start to build His called-out ones, (in the Body) before that. Paul was given the doctrine, the understanding of what the Lord was doing. And we know from God`s word that that doctrine was over a period of time. So, do we say the Body of Christ had not started till all the doctrine was known? No.

So you believe those 2 in Romans 16:7, they knew they were in the Body of Christ when they were saved, and that they are going to receive a different inheritance from Israel?
 
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Marilyn C

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So you believe those 2 in Romans 16:7, they knew they were in the Body of Christ when they were saved, and that they are going to receive a different inheritance from Israel?
As I said they were in the Body of Christ but did not have the full understanding of what this great purpose was. Many today and over the centuries did not have a full understanding either. That doesn`t make them any less in the Body, for it is the Holy Spirit that sets us in the Body. (1 Cor. 12: 18)
 
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Marilyn C

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Any scripture that actually says that? I presume no?
`And they continued steadfastly in the apostle`s doctrine...` (Acts 2: 42)

That `doctrine` was that Jesus was Lord and Christ. (Acts 2: 36) That is foundational. (1 Cor. 3: 11) Then we see Saul persecuting the believers. (Acts 8: 3) So, obviously the Lord had not revealed to Paul about the Body of Christ.

Then when Saul received his sight physically and spiritually from the Lord we see that the churches had peace and were edified. They walked in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit, and they were multiplied. (Acts 9: 31) And all this before Saul/Paul received the revelation of the Body of Christ.

Marilyn.
 
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Antonio39

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I say that the first questions should be !

#1 Who was the first person saved by GRACE OF GOD ? Acts 9:6 .

#2 Does the bible say , who is the PATTERN of the ONES coming to believe on him unto EVERLASTING LIFE , 1 Tim 1:16 .

#3 Then who was the one APOINTED to be THE APOSTLE TO THE GENTILES ?

#4 Who was the was the dispensation of the MYSTERY first given to , Rom 16:26 , for the OBEDIENCE of FAITH .

#5 Who was th ones that INFORMS all believers how all believers saved by GRACE re PLACED into the B O C , IN 1 Cor 12:13 .

#6 Who is the one that says WE ARE PART OF CHRIST , 1 Cor 12:9--27 and this is why I am Acts 9:6 , DISPENSATIONALIST .

dan p
Or you're a member of Christs body who holds an acts 9 view.
 
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Guojing

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Then when Saul received his sight physically and spiritually from the Lord we see that the churches had peace and were edified. They walked in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit, and they were multiplied. (Acts 9: 31) And all this before Saul/Paul received the revelation of the Body of Christ.

Marilyn.

So your belief is based on your particular interpretation of Acts 9:31, alright then.
 
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Guojing

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Actually, it is based on Eph. 1: 22 when the Father made the ascended Lord Head of the Body.

But nothing in that verse is saying that those 2 guys in Romans 16:7 are in the Body of Christ.

We only know they are in Christ before Paul.

So if you agree that the mystery of the Body of Christ was first revealed to Paul, it makes no sense to then conclude that those 2 are in the Body of Christ
 
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Marilyn C

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But nothing in that verse is saying that those 2 guys in Romans 16:7 are in the Body of Christ.

We only know they are in Christ before Paul.

So if you agree that the mystery of the Body of Christ was first revealed to Paul, it makes no sense to then conclude that those 2 are in the Body of Christ
So, God`s word tells us that when Jesus ascended to the Father, the Father made Him Head of the Body, (Eph. 1: 22). Then we are told that He sent His Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth. (John 16: 13).

Jesus also gave some to be apostles, some...... (Eph. 4: 11) for the equipping of the believers. (v. 12). Then we read of some of these apostles in Acts 14: 14, (Barnabus and Paul). Earlier we noted that Barnabus was already a believer, an apostle, before Paul. (Acts 9: 27).

Paul said it was by REVELATION that he was made known of the Body of Christ. (Eph. 3: 3) And that means he was given understanding of what the Lord, the Head was doing. It does not mean that that was when the Body of Christ had begun. Remember Paul went into the desert to be taught of the Lord, so it was an understanding that was being revealed to him by the Lord. (Gal. 1: 17)

Marilyn.
 
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Guojing

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Paul said it was by REVELATION that he was made known of the Body of Christ. (Eph. 3: 3) And that means he was given understanding of what the Lord, the Head was doing. It does not mean that that was when the Body of Christ had begun. Remember Paul went into the desert to be taught of the Lord, so it was an understanding that was being revealed to him by the Lord. (Gal. 1: 17)

Marilyn.

The problem with having that view is that you have to ignore or downplay what Paul said in 1 Timothy 1:16

Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

So if you already accept that the Body of Christ was mystery first revealed to Paul, and you also come across this particular statement, it will take a leap of logic to somehow believe that those 2 in Romans 16:7 were in the Body of Christ before Paul
 
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Marilyn C

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The problem with having that view is that you have to ignore or downplay what Paul said in 1 Timothy 1:16

Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

So if you already accept that the Body of Christ was mystery first revealed to Paul, and you also come across this particular statement, it will take a leap of logic to somehow believe that those 2 in Romans 16:7 were in the Body of Christ before Paul
Yes, Paul is a pattern for longsuffering, and other apostles are a pattern for other aspects of Christ. Barnabus was a great encourager, Timothy a good student, (& apostle, 1 Thess. 1: 1, 2: 6) Silvanus a good discipler, (took John Mark under his wing whereas Paul put him aside), etc.
 
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Antonio39

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Yes, Paul is a pattern for longsuffering, and other apostles are a pattern for other aspects of Christ. Barnabus was a great encourager, Timothy a good student, (& apostle, 1 Thess. 1: 1, 2: 6) Silvanus a good discipler, (took John Mark under his wing whereas Paul put him aside), etc.
i still don't see how a pattern of longsuffering is proof that it began at pauls salvation all the scriptures written during the acts period clearly are speaking about prophecy pauls tribulation language is the same as mathew 24. also, it's the same hope of the Parousia. well After acts its a different Greek word used and it's the appearing, notice you can't find coming in pauls post acts epistles. so we agree paul is the only one who received the mystery, but it doesn't mean it happens when he was saved. we need some doctrinal references no what we think so i am pre pairing my position on here from the start even questioning my own position in the process to make sure i believe the truth. so prove your position and take the time to do it.
 
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Antonio39

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The inheritance of the body of Christ is with him as the image of God the firstborn over all (creation) the powers of the cosmos. This is why in Eph.1:20-23 quotes psalm 8, it is the inheritance of the corporate new man over all creation (Eph.2:15, with the authority of God (right hand authority, Eph.2:6-8), this is our inheritance. And when the body is built up in righteousness Christ who is hide in God will be made manifest and we with him in glory sharing in the glory of the theophany (Col.3:1-4; Eph. 3:5-6) as the corporate new man(Eph.4:24;Col.3:10), then the times will come for Christ to fulfill the prophetic program and restore Israel (Eph.1:10-14), the body of Christ will be the holy and without blemish offering, for the restoration of the cosmos that was over throne my the devil, on the day of redemption(Eph.1:3-14,4:30;Col.1:12-21). this has nothing to do with Israel, of Abraham, or the new Jerusalem that was during the Acts period, that language is absent in Pauls post acts ministry.
 
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