When atheists say that God commanded genocide in the Old Testament, here's how you...

[Michie]

...can respond

#2

10-30-13

Most atheists today display a remarkable inability to discern different genres throughout Scripture. They attempt to read Genesis through the same lens as the Psalms, Deuteronomy, 2 Samuel, the Gospel of Luke, and Revelation. And most of the time, this lens is the lens of modern journalism.

When atheists say that God commanded genocide in the Old Testament, here's how you can respond...

 

[TheOtherHockeyMom]

...can respond

#2

10-30-13


When atheists say that God commanded genocide in the Old Testament, here's how you can respond...

There's some good stuff there, but I think the author is looking to place the blame in the wrong place...blaming sympathies for not considering genre, when I think that most damage in that department is done by the fundamentalist Christians....promoting things like YEC and a Levitical view of sexuality.

 

[Michie]

There's some good stuff there, but I think the author is looking to place the blame in the wrong place...blaming sympathies for not considering genre, when I think that most damage in that department is done by the fundamentalist Christians....promoting things like YEC and a Levitical view of sexuality.

What do you mean the Levitical view of sexuality?

 

[MKJ]

What do you mean the Levitical view of sexuality?

Using Leviticus to condemn homosexuals without equally condemning anyone who wears mixed fibers, without any real explanation.

 

[Michie]

Using Leviticus to condemn homosexuals without equally condemning anyone who wears mixed fibers, without any real explanation.

How can anyone compare homosexuality with mixed fibers? Thou shall not fornicate & commit adultery is part of Levitical law as well & Christians still forbid it.

 

[ebia]

...can respond #2 10-30-13 When atheists say that God commanded genocide in the Old Testament, here's how you can respond...

When atheists drag this stuff out they aren't looking for a response.

On the other hand, I don't think church congregations do enough to grapple with this stuff - lectionaries and therefore sermons/homilies skip over most of it.

 

[Tallguy88]

How can anyone compare homosexuality with mixed fibers? Thou shall not fornicate & commit adultery is part of Levitical law as well & Christians still forbid it.

Because wearing mixed fibers, eating shellfish, etc are all forbidden by Leviticus.

 

[Dusky Mouse]

How can anyone compare homosexuality with mixed fibers? Thou shall not fornicate & commit adultery is part of Levitical law as well & Christians still forbid it.

Can you imagine? You're at the gates of Heaven and you're denied entry because that cotton polyester jogging suit did ya in!

 

[MKJ]

How can anyone compare homosexuality with mixed fibers? Thou shall not fornicate & commit adultery is part of Levitical law as well & Christians still forbid it.

Because the same kinds of passages in the same book forbid them, with similar levels of ferocity. Leviticus is quite clear that wearing mixed fibers is a big no-no.

Christians don't follow many of the rules from Leviticus, so quoting from it as if it is a slam dunk answer on homosexuality is not all that enlightening, and looks like cherry-picking.

Fundamentalists do it a lot though, without ever really explaining why Christians have kept some of the rules, but not others. So non-Christians tend to think it is pretty silly at best, and blatantly hypocritical at worst..

 

[Michie]

Because wearing mixed fibers, eating shellfish, etc are all forbidden by Leviticus.

Jesus said it is not what goes in your mouth that makes you unclean but what comes out of it. Peter's dream?

Seriously there were some things done till Jesus came. Some foundational, others, not so much.

 

[Michie]

Can you imagine? You're at the gates of Heaven and you're denied entry because that cotton polyester jogging suit did ya in!

I've read from sources I no longer recall that a lot of these laws were to keep God's people more aware of their walk with the Lord & to be set part as God's chosen people. Not to mention health reasons.

Anyone that compares the foundational teachings of Christianity with shellfish & mixed fibers does not seem to understand the NT.

This thread is about genocide. Not yet another thread about homosexuality, mixed fibers, lobster, crab, clams, shrimp, etc.

 

[MKJ]

Jesus said it is not what goes in your mouth that makes you unclean but what comes out of it. Peter's dream?

Seriously there were some things done till Jesus came. Some foundational, others, not so much.

So how do you decide which is which?

The fundamentalists typically don't offer any convincing answers. In many cases because their understanding of Scripture doesn't clearly give an answer.

And why would non-Christians know?

Really, if you want to talk about the Church and homosexuality, you can't just quote from Leviticus. You need to get into a much deeper discussion than that.

And a discussion of the logic behind the kinds of rules in the OT is not a light one either.

 

[Memento Mori]

I agree with Michie.

Leviticus may be just as vehement about wearing mixed fibers as it is about homosexuality, but do we really think there has ever been confusion about what constitutes a ceremonial precept and what constitutes a moral precept? Those laws of Israel which had the objective moral order for their basis must necessarily be universal. I don't see anything wrong with quoting Leviticus as an authority on homosexuality. Obviously I wouldn't quote to non-Christians, who would just mock Scripture, but otherwise yeah.

 

[Michie]

So how do you decide which is which?

The fundamentalists typically don't offer any convincing answers. In many cases because their understanding of Scripture doesn't clearly give an answer.

And why would non-Christians know?

Really, if you want to talk about the Church and homosexuality, you can't just quote from Leviticus. You need to get into a much deeper discussion than that.

And a discussion of the logic behind the kinds of rules in the OT is not a light one either.

Natural Law.

Seriously, this OP addresses a single subject. Must we drag homosexuality into everything?

 

[Michie]

I agree with Michie.

Leviticus may be just as vehement about wearing mixed fibers as it is about homosexuality, but do we really think there has ever been confusion about what constitutes a ceremonial precept and what constitutes a moral precept? Those laws of Israel which had the objective moral order for their basis must necessarily be universal. I don't see anything wrong with quoting Leviticus as an authority on homosexuality. Obviously I wouldn't quote to non-Christians, who would just mock Scripture, but otherwise yeah.

Exactly.


Homosexuality is mentioned in NT as well. But how about the genocide atheists like to bring up?

 

[Maynard Keenan]

So how do you decide which is which?

Everyone decides for himself and then declares that answer to be obvious.

 

[Tigg]

Forget homosexuality. That is not the question. Read the OT and you find many places where God says kill men women and children - genocide - and even the animals. I have no xplanation. If anyone does, I would like to hear it.

 

[MKJ]

Forget homosexuality. That is not the question. Read the OT and you find many places where God says kill men women and children - genocide - and even the animals. I have no xplanation. If anyone does, I would like to hear it.

Pretty much what the guy said in the article.

The OT in many places is recording the Hebrew's experience of God as much as God himself.

 

[Tigg]

Pretty much what the guy said in the article.

The OT in many places is recording the Hebrew's experience of God as much as God himself.

Have read the article but not the books recommended.

Your sentence of "The OT in many places is..." is true but does not explain why the genocide or mass killings down to even the animals. I guess God may do what He will as He is the creator. But I do not have an explanation beyond that. To make way for the Jewish people so they wouldn't fall into what others were doing, is one explanation I have heard. But that, for me don't cut it.

TY for your post however.

 

[TheOtherHockeyMom]

I think this thread is more about how to read the various genres in the Bible, what we take as command, as history, as fable, etc...