When are you saved?

[Serapha]

Hi there!



I am still looking for the answer to the question:


In the CoJCoLDS, when is one "saved"?


~malaka~

 

[twhite982]

Hi there!



I am still looking for the answer to the question:


In the CoJCoLDS, when is one "saved"?


~malaka~

We can explain when one is considered a member of the church or what is required to enter the temple, but a blanket statement cannot be put on individual salvation for this only God can judge.

We do however believe that salvation is a process, which works through justification and santification via the Holy Spirit.

I nor anyone else can look upon someone in the LDS church or not and say "Look, that person is saved".

We can explain what ordinances are required for exaltation if that is what you are asking for.

Its a hard question to pin down and I don't feel one can accurately do so.

TW

 

[baker]

TW,


You bring up an interesting issue when you say:

"I nor anyone else can look upon someone in the LDS church or not and say "Look, that person is saved".

Can you or those bestowed with the priesthood power determine if an individual is "temple worthy"?

Your thoughts?

 

[Toms777]

Hi there!



I am still looking for the answer to the question:


In the CoJCoLDS, when is one "saved"?


~malaka~

First, we must be born again.

John 3:3-8
3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." 4 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?" 5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
NKJV

To be born again, we must believe in the truth of the testimony and gospel of Jesus Christ.

John 3:32-36
32 And what He has seen and heard, that He testifies; and no one receives His testimony. 33 He who has received His testimony has certified that God is true. 34 For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure. 35 The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand. 36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
NKJV

It must be the true gospel, not a different gospel.

Gal 1:6-9
6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
NKJV

A different gospel cannot save.

It must be the true Jesus, not a different Jesus:

2 Cor 11:3-4
4 For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted--you may well put up with it!
NKJV

A different Jesus, one who is not God come in the flesh (1 Tim 3:16) cannot save, because it must be the sacrifice of the perfect lamb of God that is sacrificed for our sins. No other sacrifice is sufficient. If it were, Jesus would niot have needed to die on the cross to pay the price for our sins.

What is this gospel that saves?

1 Cor 15:1-7
15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep.
NKJV

Is is simply just "believeing"?

James 2:18-20
19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe--and tremble!
NKJV

No, even the demons believe. It is more. Is it confessing that Jesus is Lord?

Acts 16:16-19
17 This girl followed Paul and us, and cried out, saying, "These men are the servants of the Most High God, who proclaim to us the way of salvation." 18 And this she did for many days. But Paul, greatly annoyed, turned and said to the spirit, "I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her." And he came out that very hour.
NKJV

No, it is not simply proclaiming.

It is to believe in your heart that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, God manifest in the flesh has come, died on the cross fro your sins, and you have received Him, not just believed but received Him as Lord and Saviour - in that moment you are born again, a new creation and have received salvation because your sins have been washed away and you are now righteousness before God, not our righteousness, but His righteousness imputed to us.

Rom 4:24-25
It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.
NKJV

 

[twhite982]

TW,


You bring up an interesting issue when you say:

"I nor anyone else can look upon someone in the LDS church or not and say "Look, that person is saved".

Can you or those bestowed with the priesthood power determine if an individual is "temple worthy"?

Your thoughts?

Those who have the position to judge are to be able to discern whether the person is worthy.

An interview is first to be had with the bishop. I believe 10 questions are asked and the bishop listens to the spirit and judges off of these questions. The person being interviewed is under more responsibility to answer truthfully and also be a judge of himself/herself. The bishop gives his recommendation to the stake president, who basically ask the same questions, he also listens to the spirit and judges from that.

The interviewee ultimately has responsibilty to answer truthfully as this person signs his/her own name to the recommend card to attest they are worthy.

The Lord will not hold either the bishop or stake president responsible if they did the best they could if the person wasn't temple worthy. The responsibility will be on the individual.

We are all human and mistakes are possible.

There are of course certain behaviors that are unacceptable to a temple goer and if someone was guilty of these unacceptable behavior and I had knowledge of it I would be under obligation to the Lord to follow the council of Paul in confronting this individual, regardless if I'm in a leadership position or not.


Hope this answered your questions.

TW

 

[baker]

TW,

Thanks. So I understand, I think I follow you in that ultimately it is up to the interviewee to answer truthfully. But is it not the ultimate responsibilty of the priesthood holder to discern if the individual is worthy?

Also, who must this person be worthy of?

 

[Der Alte]

We can explain when one is considered a member of the church or what is required to enter the temple, but a blanket statement cannot be put on individual salvation for this only God can judge.

We do however believe that salvation is a process, which works through justification and santification via the Holy Spirit.

I nor anyone else can look upon someone in the LDS church or not and say "Look, that person is saved".

We can explain what ordinances are required for exaltation if that is what you are asking for.

Its a hard question to pin down and I don't feel one can accurately do so.

TW

Paul knew, for a fact, that he and others were saved.

Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

2 Co 2:15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

2 Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;​

 

[twhite982]

TW,

Thanks. So I understand, I think I follow you in that ultimately it is up to the interviewee to answer truthfully. But is it not the ultimate responsibilty of the priesthood holder to discern if the individual is worthy?

Ultimately Yes. The interviewer does try to discern by the spirit for his own confirmation on the individual.

Also, who must this person be worthy of?

Do you mean what must he be worthy of?

If that is the case I can't remember the exact questions off the top of my head.

TW

 

[twhite982]

Paul knew, for a fact, that he and others were saved.

Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

2 Co 2:15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

2 Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

*** 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;


​

These verse you quoted seem to refer to salvation from sins.



I guess I was referring more towards salvation unto eternal life. Which is why I stated that no man can know of our standing other than God and to whom He reveals it.

This salvation unto eternal life Paul was very well aware of as stated towards the latter end of his life.

2 Tim 4:6-8:

6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Once we accept Jesus as our Lord and have faith in His atonement made on our behalfs we can have salvation from our sins. The ordinances naturally follow, the first being baptism.

TW

 

[Der Alte]

These verse you quoted seem to refer to salvation from sins.

I guess I was referring more towards salvation unto eternal life. Which is why I stated that no man can know of our standing other than God and to whom He reveals it.

This salvation unto eternal life Paul was very well aware of as stated towards the latter end of his life.

2 Tim 4:6-8:

6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Once we accept Jesus as our Lord and have faith in His atonement made on our behalfs we can have salvation from our sins. The ordinances naturally follow, the first being baptism.

TW

I am not aware of any scriptural distinction between salvation, "from sin" and "unto eternal life"

 

[Spiceman]

One is saved when he is actually in the kingdom of heaven, until that time any man can fall from grace while he is on earth IMHO.

 

[REY]

Hi there!



I am still looking for the answer to the question:


In the CoJCoLDS, when is one "saved"?


~malaka~

Salvation is obtain only one way .
Is it sum up by one word

Faith!

 

[twhite982]

One is saved when he is actually in the kingdom of heaven, until that time any man can fall from grace while he is on earth IMHO.

Thanks Spiceman, This is what I was referring to.

TW

 

[Godisgood]

Unless I am mistaken, the term "saved" means to be resurrected according to the teachings of TCpJCoLdS. Much different than what other churches teach: that we are saved from God's wrath and eternal seperation from God. Correct me if I am wrong about what the Mormon church teaches.

I personally believe in the security of the believer.

John 10:28 "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand."

John 6:39 "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day."

John And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Heb. 6:19 "Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; "

Heb. 6:9

John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

1 John 4:17-19 "Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. 19 We love him, because he first loved us. "


When a person's conversion from self/sin to the Lordship of Christ occurs, the person knows for sure. That is the salvation experience.

Do LDS' have a definition for sanctification?

 

[Serapha]

One is saved when he is actually in the kingdom of heaven, until that time any man can fall from grace while he is on earth IMHO.

Hi there!


thank you!

~malaka~

 

[twhite982]

Unless I am mistaken, the term "saved" means to be resurrected according to the teachings of TCpJCoLdS. Much different than what other churches teach: that we are saved from God's wrath and eternal seperation from God. Correct me if I am wrong about what the Mormon church teaches.

Hi Godisgood, its nice to see you again, its been a while.

Hope you don't mind me making a few comments on your post.

I personally don't have a universal definition of saved unless I use the greek meaning of it, which means to be rescued. Then the question would be in what sense is that term being used.

The resurrection is a form of salvation, since we are rescued from physical death and allowed to appear before our God. Without this act of grace we would not make it out of our graves, but this type of salvation concerning the resurrection is not the all inclusive definition of the term.

Additionally I could say we are saved from our sins and that only Christ through His love and grace He offers all of us give us the opportunity to pay the price of sin through His merits not ours.

Then I could say that we are saved unto eternal life, when we are rewarded according to the deeds in the flesh. The driving force behind these "good" deeds is really God and our willing effort to follow His promtings to do these good works.

At no point, other than the resurrection of our physical bodies do we lose control of our agency and the choice is made for us. We are responsible for what we decide.

I personally believe in the security of the believer.

John 10:28 "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand."

John 6:39 "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day."

John And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Heb. 6:19 "Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; "

Heb. 6:9

John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

1 John 4:17-19 "Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. 19 We love him, because he first loved us. "

I believe in the security of the believer in Christ, but again our agency comes into play here. We must remain faithful to Him and endure to the end. This is not to say we will never make mistakes from the point where we start to follow our Savior and on from there. Actually my mistakes seem to be amplified since I'm more aware of the differences between right and wrong.

When a person's conversion from self/sin to the Lordship of Christ occurs, the person knows for sure. That is the salvation experience.

I like what you've said here and I too can see a miraculious change come into my life as I try to emmulate my Savior.

Do LDS' have a definition for sanctification?

I will give you my definition on santification.

Santification and justification in my mind go hand in hand and I feel I need to define justification as well. Justification is a legal term that is used to describe that God declares us free from the debt of sin. Something like if we are at point A in our spiritual walk and we want to get to point B, which is some distance away. God declares us arrived at point B even though we are still only at point A or somewhere along the path. Now santification is the actual process of the indwelling of the Holy Ghost within us that cleanes us of sin and makes us aware of improvements we need to more closely follow our Savior. The process of santification ACTUALLY brings us to point B where we wanted to be all along. This is my definition in a nutshell.

Good to see you again Godisgood and I hope everything is working out for you and your extended family.

TW

 

[k4c]

Hi there!



I am still looking for the answer to the question:


In the CoJCoLDS, when is one "saved"?


~malaka~

Hi Malaka,

Salvation has a two fold process. First is the coming out of darkness and into the light or coming of Egypt, bondage to sin. When we are born again all we get is eyes to see so that we can enter into the kingdom.

The second is the deliverance for iniquity or coming out of the wilderness.
People are saved when they understand that the old man must be put off and the new man must be put on.

Ephesians 4:22-24 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

When people understand this concept and are applying it, they are being saved. God calls us saved because in His eyes we are, but there is still a long road ahead.

Romans 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Romans 13:11 And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed.

God needs to bring us all to a maturity in our walk where we know Him and His Son in a personal, loving relationship and we have experienced that there is nothing better in this world then being in fellowship with them.

John 17:3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

In salvation, God does His part by giving us eyes to see the light (being able to understand His truth). Our part in salvation is to walk in that light (truth).

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Remember, God loves us and always has loved us. His desire is that we all come to this saving knowledge. It's us who fight against God, it's our sin nature the wars against the Spirit of God. Even while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Understanding this love and being able to experience this personal love in our lives with keep us from the sin the separates and kills.

2 Corinthians 5:14-15 For the love of Christ constrains us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.

1 Peter 1:9 receiving the end (completion) of your faith the salvation of your souls.

Truth in love,
John

 

[Serapha]

Hi Malaka,

Salvation has a two fold process. First is the coming out of darkness and into the light or coming of Egypt, bondage to sin. When we are born again all we get is eyes to see so that we can enter into the kingdom.

The second is the deliverance for iniquity or coming out of the wilderness.
People are saved when they understand that the old man must be put off and the new man must be put on.

Ephesians 4:22-24 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

When people understand this concept and are applying it, they are being saved. God calls us saved because in His eyes we are, but there is still a long road ahead.

Romans 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Romans 13:11 And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed.

God needs to bring us all to a maturity in our walk where we know Him and His Son in a personal, loving relationship and we have experienced that there is nothing better in this world then being in fellowship with them.

John 17:3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

In salvation, God does His part by giving us eyes to see the light (being able to understand His truth). Our part in salvation is to walk in that light (truth).

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Remember, God loves us and always has loved us. His desire is that we all come to this saving knowledge. It's us who fight against God, it's our sin nature the wars against the Spirit of God. Even while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Understanding this love and being able to experience this personal love in our lives with keep us from the sin the separates and kills.

2 Corinthians 5:14-15 For the love of Christ constrains us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.

1 Peter 1:9 receiving the end (completion) of your faith the salvation of your souls.

Truth in love,
John

Hi there!



Thank you so much for your thorough explanations. I know it takes a lot of time to explain so completely. However, I was looking for the specifics on the CoJCoLDS.


~malaka~

 

[k4c]

Hi there!



Thank you so much for your thorough explanations. I know it takes a lot of time to explain so completely. However, I was looking for the specifics on the CoJCoLDS.


~malaka~

Hi Malaka,

What do you mean by, the specifics on the CoJCoLDS?

Truth in love,
John