What's wrong with 'Christian'?

[simchat_torah]

There seems to be some debate lately whether Messianic Jews should (or do) reject the term 'christian'. To be honest, I never 'rejected' the term, but opted to not use it because of what it has come to mean today.

However, this recent discussion sparked my interest and I began reading a number of materials out of an honest inquiry of the word... and why should I reject it or claim it. Personally, I wanted to get to the bottom of it because I didn't want to offend those who felt they were following their 'true calling' as christians, and yet I didn't want to offend those who feel the word should be tossed out of our vocabulary as descriptive of a Messianic.

So, the Quest begins.

I started with one of the more definitive works in MJ'ism, David Stern's Messianic Jewish Manifesto:

According to Scripture the word “Christian” does not denote Jewish believers in Yeshua at all. The New Testament calls them followers of “this way” (Acts 9:2, 22:4) and “Nazarenes” (Acts 24:5)… the New Testament does not call Jewish believers “Christians”. According to New Testament usage the term “Christian” is reserved for Gentile believers in the Jewish Messiah Yeshua.

Acts 11:19-26 tells how in Antioch some Jewish believers… did not limit their proclamation of Yeshua as the Messiah to Jews, as had been the norm previously, but broke new ground… Many of these Gentiles came to believe… the other Gentiles in Antioch… coined the word christianoi (Christians),… Thus the term “Christian” was invented by Gentiles to describe Gentiles in a Gentile environment. The New Testament tells us explicitly that “the disciples
were first called Christians in Antioch.” [Acts 11:26]

*Messianic Jewish Manifesto; David Stern; p. 32*

It seems from this context that 'christian' was explicitly used to describe the Gentile converts. Stern continues:

“Messianic” comes from the Hebrew mashiach, which means "anointed.” “Christian” comes from Greek christos, which is the [Greek] New Testament’s translation of mashiach AND MEANS THE SAME THING. …in the New Testament the term “Christian,” which appears only three times, apparently denotes being a Gentile believer in Yeshua, so that scripturally “Jewish Christian” is a contradiction in terms.

*Messianic Jewish Manifesto; David Stern; p. 20*

Here, Stern makes a point that it is almost 'wrong' to label a Jewish believer as 'christian'.

It was said that Martin Chernoff, an important figure in Messianic History, felt that the true term was 'Hebrew Christian'. Chernoff either changed his mind while he was in presidency of the MJAA (previously known as the HCAA) or the quote used was taken out of context. It was Chernoff himself that spearheaded a movement in the early 70's (while he was president of MJAA) to change the name from Hebrew Christian Alliance of America to Messianic Jewish Alliance of America. In an effort to find meaning in the traditions of Judaism, to define the movement, and to incorporate more substanance of Jewish worship, Chernoff and many at MJAA officially changed the name and began shaping the movement into a more Jewish scope... what they felt was more true to it's origins.

Martin Chernoff became the President of the HCAA (1971-1975), and led the group towards Messianic Judaism (1) (his sons, Joel and David, also served as Presidents - 1979-1983 and 1983-1987, respectively).(2) In June of 1973, a motion was made to change the name of the HCAA to the Messianic Jewish Alliance of America (MJAA); however, a two-thirds majority vote was necessary to effect the name change, and only 62% was received at this time. Two years later, though, there was enough support, and in June of 1975, the name was officially changed to the MJAA. (3)

(1)Robert I. Winer, The Calling: The History of the Messianic Jewish Alliance of America (Wynnewood PA: MJAA, 1990),pp. 47-49.
(2)p. 59
(2) p. 50.

Why did they make this name change? Some point to the fact that 'christian' was not representative of Jewish believers. Others, including Chernoff and his sons, felt that a more passionate direction needed to be established towards traditional Judaism.

"the name change was significant as more than just a semantical expression;it represented an evolution in the thought processes and religious and philosophical outlook toward a more fervent expression of Jewish identity."

David A. Rausch, Messianic Judaism: Its History, Theology, and Polity (Lewiston, NY: Edwin Mellen, 1982), p. 77

So, out of a sense of definition the name was changed... not just an ourward name, but a name that would affect the inward expression of worship and relationship. David Stern has been quoted numerous times on the following statement, and is probably his most famous:

I am religious. Not Orthodox, not Conservative, not Reform, not Reconstructionist but Messianic.

He made it obvious that he did not express his faith through the term 'christian' but instead opted to declare Messianic. He even went so far as to contrast messianic with other sects of Judaism, not with christianity.

I haven't even begun to tap into the differences between what christianity has become today and what the original messianic Judaism stood for. That's a whole other discussion that would take some depth. I'm focusing more on the modern view in this thread (though I'm sure that's going to change... lol)

Now, my questions to everyone here are:

How do you/we label ourselves?
Do you feel it is inherrently wrong for a Jewish Believer to be labelled "christian"?
Is it a matter of preference or does it go beyond that?
Which does Messianic Judaism reflect more closely: christianity or Judaism?

Well, I hope this is a good kick off for discussion.
Shalom,
Yafet.

 

[Sabian]

So Christian is a man made term and so is Messianic Jew.
I still choose Child of YAH.
I'm looking forward to one FAMILY.
And I fail to see the FATHER's name in Term Christian or Messianic Jew.
I think we should be called by the FATHER's name.
Very Interesting research.
The term Child of YAH fits me fine.

 

[iitb]

How do you/we label ourselves?
I, personally, hate labels. Always the pessimist, I feel that as soon as people know how to label you they can figure out why they hate you.

To answer your question, when cornered on the topic, I choose the label "Messianic." I'm not ethnically Jewish, but I also don't feel that Christianity accurately represents what I believe.

Do you feel it is inherrently wrong for a Jewish Believer to be labelled "christian"?
Christianity has little to do with Judaism.

Is it a matter of preference or does it go beyond that?
It's definitely more than preference.

Which does Messianic Judaism reflect more closely: christianity or Judaism?
I think it varies from congregation to congregation. There are both Jewish and christian influences, that cannot be denied. It just depends...

 

[KelsayDL]

Well, the christians I see today bend their knees before idols, allow homosexuals to preach, hide child molestors in their leadership and allow athiests to teach the word of God to them, teach that God is a hypocrite and possibly a liar, teach without knowing it that Yeshua is not the Messiah.

All things are permissable in christianity, yes?

Apparently.

There is nothing wrong with the term christian. Theres just something wrong in christianity.

I don't label myself as anything anymore.

Maybe just a seeker.

 

[Shamash Of Yeshua]

How do you/we label ourselves?
When I came to the realization of Messianic Judaism I started by calling myself Messianic and thinking maybe Messianic Jew(Yet changed thought after much reading) I named myself Shamash Of Yeshua and have thought lately that I should have called myself Shamash of YHVH. Yet Yeshua is our King, Lord Yeshua setup as King by YHVH.

Do you feel it is inherrently wrong for a Jewish Believer to be labelled "christian"?
In terms of how Christianity came to be over the last 1700+ years, I would have to say yes it is wrong to name a Jewish believer in Yeshua or for that fact anyone to be named Christian. For the connotations the name implies from over the centuries leans toward Traditions of MAN.

Is it a matter of preference or does it go beyond that?
I don't understand which question this question applies to. So I will have to say beyond preference.

Which does Messianic Judaism reflect more closely: christianity or Judaism?
I would say that Messianic Judaism reflects more of what the true nature of what The Messiah Yeshua and the Apostles have taught in line with Judaism corrected. For we know that Yeshua did in fact correct most sects of Judaism, yet I don't see Yeshua creating a NEW Religion. I see Yeshua correctly teaching what YHVH was instructing since Moses.

Shalom,

Tag

 

[SonWorshipper]

Excellent Topic Yafet!



Now to your questions, (which right now will be short as I am preparing for Shabbat and also showing my house today to two prospects, pray that we will get a contract soon!)

How do you/we label ourselves?

Privately I consider myself a true believer. A believer in what? The whole word of G-d and the Holy Messiah who was given to us through a very specific plan that must be not set aside but followed and rejoiced in (Torah). As such I have come to call myself Messianic, or a Messianic believer or a covenant member of Messianic Judaism congregation. Messianic for short! I think that anyone that believes in Torah and all it entails, both the "Old" and the "New" and continue to follow what is written in there, upholding the L-rds Sabbaths, feasts, and other laws of living, should not call themselves Christian. Messianic seems to denote enough of a distinction to connote that and if others ask and you reply "Messianic" then you are given the chance to explain your beliefs.

Do you feel it is inherently wrong for a Jewish Believer to be labeled "Christian"?

Well that depends. If said Jewish believer is a believer of the things in Christianity, then I feel that they are no longer wanting to be identified with their heritage and have accepted another's Holy Days and Sabbaths and should call themselves Christian to denote that. I have seen many that take on the term Christian and say that they have "Jewish Heritage".

Is it a matter of preference or does it go beyond that?

Preference to the label? For whom? The Believer or others? I think that your expression of faith should define what you are called. If you celebrate Easter and Christmass, and Lent then you should call yourself Christian no matter if Jew or Gentile. If however you express your faith the same as Y'shua, by the things that He did on earth, celebrating Passover, and Sukkot, etc then I believe that this is the Judaism that was a continuation of what was given at Mt Sinai, and you should, Jew or Gentile call yourself Messianic.

Which does Messianic Judaism reflect more closely:Christianity or Judaism?

Neither. I believe that it is the true form of Judaism that has what lines up with the word from both and tosses the rest out!

 

[simchat_torah]

I appreciate the excellent responses. I'll wait to see what others have to say before moving along. I'm also glad that everyone is being honest, yet I don't want to step on toes and offend anyone.

I think I'll clarify a bit here concerning my questions.... I see there might be some confusion.

How do you/we label ourselves?

This question is posed both at the 'movement' (we) and at us as individuals(you). How do we label the movement? Hebrew Christianity as proposed by some? Or Messianic Judaism as proposed by others?

What do you tell others? Simply saying "seeker" or "believer" does not involve any connotations, which can be good or bad. Both of those carry no definition, and are empty enough that you get to define it totally on your own. This is fine by me... but since we 'communicate' as human beings, eventually you'll have to define where you stand. Thus, where do you personally fall in the mix? Are you in line with Christianity with a *twist* in your theology, or in line with Judaism with a *twist* in your theology? Sure, you can explain your twist, but eventually, you will resemble one of the two.

Do you feel it is inherrently wrong for a Jewish Believer to be labelled "christian"?

This one is more specifically addressing those of Jewish descent. Typically a "Jewish Believer" is a title reserved for those who go beyond Messianic Judaism and practice Orthodoxy (or another form of 'observant' judaism) yet believe in the Messiah. It's more of an evolved term as of late, and BrookLaw could explain it in more depth than myself. But just to clarify, I'm asking is it wrong for a person of Jewish descent who practices Judaism to be called a "christian" if they believe in the Messiah.

Is it a matter of preference or does it go beyond that?

Do these labels only go skin deep? Is it something that you would only prefer to be called, but either way is fine? Or is one way explicitly correct and one way explicitly wrong?

Which does Messianic Judaism reflect more closely: christianity or Judaism?

You may not feel that Messianic Judaism is either Judaism or Christianity fully, however... which one does it look like more? Do you honestly feel that it lies directly in the middle between these two poles? Or does it lean more closely to one end? Should it be all the way to one end of the spectrum?

I hope these clarifications help, and feel free to change the scope of your answer if this post helps you understand my questions a bit better.

Oh, and have a very very peaceful Shabbat everyone.
Baruch HaShem,
Yafet.

 

[Superman]

Thus the term “Christian” was invented by Gentiles to describe Gentiles in a Gentile environment.

I see where this has some credence, but I highly doubt that the Greeks at Antioch would classify Jewish believers of Jesus from the Gentile believers of Jesus with two different terms.

Anyone who professed Jesus as Savior is gonna be called a "Christian" in Antioch. People were not named "Christians" for their ethnic backgrounds, but for what they believed. The guy you cite even alludes to that, quoting that the disciples were called Christians. Jews that preached Jesus came to Antioch to preach in the first place, including Barnabas. You mean to tell me that the pagans called them something else?

Can you see two guys in Antioch saying "Hey, look at that Christian over there." And his friend says "No, that's not a Christian, thats a Messianic Jew!"

That's not very realistic...

What is more likely is that anyone who talked about Jesus, regardless of ethnic background, was called a "Christian." That makes more sense.

All that said, it doesn't bother me too much if what I call "the fulfilled Jew" (a Jew that has accepted all the promises of God, ie, Jesus) doesn't want to be called a Christian. However, Paul consistanly preached that we are one body in Christ, no Jew, no Greek classifications. And as a Gentile, I do feel a bit "excluded" or "segregated" from my Jewish brothers, because they would rather not identify themselves too close to me.

Reminds me of the confrontation Paul had with Peter in Galatians...

 

[sojeru]

Hi Sabian

And I fail to see the FATHER's name in Term Christian or Messianic Jew.

So you dont see HASHEM in "Y'HWdi Meshechi "?
wow- bro, remember not to limit things to the english.

 

[Henaynei]

Shalom,

I ask forgivness ahead of time, for I tend to run-on in posting since I write as I think (my, that is a scarry thought!!)

Paul consistently preached that we are one body in Christ, no Jew, no Greek classifications.

Sha'ul also said that there was "neither male nor female." So, the distinction between the sexes no longer exists?? Of course not. Just another case of scripture taken out of context and used to support a taught/learned position rather than what the scripture actually teaches.

Re-reading the whole context of the section referred to above will show that section of scripture is specifically addressing distinctions as pertains to salvation only. It has to do with our individual standing before G-d, not G-d ordained roles or positions in this world/community.

THIS was the battle that Sha'ul fought constantly. That is, that all, no matter who or what, have equal access to salvation and eternal life, and stand on equal footing before the Throne of grace through Yeshua's sacrifice to cover our failure to obey G-d.

However, he still understood and kept the separations that G-d has placed for the Jew in His instructions (Torah). Sha'ul kept the Shabbat, the feasts and festivals, kosher and continued to make sacrifices in the Temple. Yet, did he see himself as better or superior to the non-Jewish believer? You know he did not!

Like the entire body of Torah instructions, these things were given to the Jews *for the purpose of separating the Jew for all time from the non-Jew, in this world.* If that makes you angry or uncomfortable take it up with the author - G-d. Scripture states over and over that this is so, though you have to include all of scripture to see it (i.e. Torah). This is what the statement "be ye Holy (separate, distinct, set apart) even as I am Holy" means.

In today's world people are very uncomfortable when they are not included in a valued group, or others separate themselves. In order to quell such actions, or to help themselves overcome self-generated feelings of inferiority prompted when distinctions that don't include them are made, often persons who keep such distinctions are labeled as elitists or other terms meant to detract or belittle the distinctions or persons who keep them. Simply, it makes us feel better.

The fact is that separate DOES NOT MEAN BETTER. It just means separate or different in some facet or function. Often it means a greater burden or greater responsibility - but it doesn't mean better.

By way of example:
I am the oldest child, just as the Jew is the "first born" of HaShem. Like me, for Jews it was not a position that was deliberately chosen and neither is it an office yearned for, trust me! (As Tevia said, "couldn't you chose somebody else for a change?") What is does mean is that I have greater responsibility to the family, just as the Jew has a greater responsibility to obey G-d. I have a greater burden to keep the traditions of the family and to represent the family to the world. The family name and reputation depends more greatly on my actions than that of the younger siblings, in general. I get away with less, the rules are more unbendable for the first born than the other children, etc.
Just ask most kids about this and they can more clearly articulate the role of first born and the envy based on mis-understood responsibilities vs. supposed privilege than can any theologian.

An other example:
The president of a company is no more important than the vice-president. The company by-laws sets out different and separate roles and responsibilities. The VP can choose to feel inferior but that is a problem with him, not the president or the person who chose the president, or with the by-laws.
Just as with Torah, and Jews who believe or non-Jews who believe, being first born, or the president in no way means that one is inherently better or that the other is less. Just because one *feels* inferior in no way means it is so.

And as a Gentile, I do feel a bit "excluded" or "segregated" from my Jewish brothers, because they would rather not identify themselves too close to me

The term christian, in today's world, is a term of believers of the Hellenistic or historically Greek cultural community. That means believers whose culture is based on all or most of what we know as the "Western" culture. Jewish, historically and by at least some definitions, is specifically non-Hellenistic. (See the histories of Khanukkah for discussions and views on this point.)

I do not see how a Jew refusing to be called a christian means that "they would rather not identify themselves too close to me." Do they fail to call themselves human, or sinners or in need of salvation?? How then does not calling themselves christian then do this? They are not christians, they are Jews.

I am a gentile. And, while I identify much more closely to the non-Hellenistic community, I identify myself as a Messianic Gerah Toshav - that is, a non-Jewish woman who is learning to obey Torah. I do not and never have identified myself as a Jew. I am not Jewish - even though I am mistaken for a Jew even by Jews sometimes because I keep more of Torah than many of them do - and I clearly state the truth when I am asked.

If and when HaShem allows, I will convert and take on the entire mantel of Judaism/Torah and the burden of *being Jewish.* Until then it is my valued opportunity to surround, protect, stand by and support Jews, Judaism and Israel, as a non-Jew. I in no way feel inferior or "second class" to any Jew I know. (Well, maybe Leonard Nimoy, but then who doesn't feel inferior to Mr. Spock?? But then, I'd have to admit that I don't actually *know* him either!)

I am excluded and segregated from being Jewish until G-d allows me to convert. It is G-d who has excluded and segregated me as it is He who saw to it that I was not born Jewish.

If an African failed to allow someone to call them Nordic would that too seem separationist? And how would it make the one insisting on such a claim seem to be in the eyes of the African? Is the African better than the Nordic? Is a lion better than a tiger? But calling a tiger a lion is just plain ignorant of the facts as G-d created them, nu?

Why blame the Jew for choices and rules/commandments that G-d made?

 

[Henaynei]

Shalom,

I ask forgivness ahead of time, for I tend to run-on in posting since I write as I think (my, that is a scarry thought!!)

Paul consistently preached that we are one body in Christ, no Jew, no Greek classifications.

This is an old hackneyed statement and incomplete.

Sha'ul also said that there was "neither male nor female." So, the distinction between the sexes no longer exists?? Of course not. Just a case of scripture taken out of context and used to support a taught/learned position rather than what the scripture actually teaches.

That section of scripture is specifically addressing distinctions as pertains to salvation only not roles or positions in this world/community.

THIS was the battle that Sha'ul fought constantly. That is, that all, no matter who or what, have equal access to salvation and eternal life, through Yeshua's sacrifice to cover our failure to obey G-d.

However, he still understood and kept the separations that G-d has placed for the Jew in His instructions (Torah). Sha'ul kept the Shabbat, the feast and festivals, kosher and continued to make sacrifices in the Temple. Yet, did he see himself as better or superior to the non-Jewish believer? You know he did not!

Like the entire body of Torah instructions, these things were given to the Jews *for the purpose of separating the Jew for all time from the non-Jew.* If that makes you angry or uncomfortable take it up with the author - G-d. Scripture states over and over that this is so, though you have to include all of scripture to see it (i.e. Torah). This is what the statement "be ye Holy (separate, distinct, set apart) even as I am Holy" means.

In today's world people are very uncomfortable when they are not included in a valued group, or others separate themselves. In order to quell such actions or to make themselves overcome self generated feelings of inferiority prompted when distinctions that don't include them are made often persons who keep such distinctions are labeled as elitists or other terms meant to detract or belittle the distinctions or persons who keep them. Simply, it makes us feel better.

The fact is that separate DOES NOT MEAN BETTER. It just means separate. Often it means a greater burden or greater responsibility - but it doesn't mean better.

I am the oldest child, just as the Jew is the "first born" of HaShem. Like me, for Jews it was not a position that was deliberately chosen and neither is it an office yearned for, trust me! (As Tevia said, "couldn't you chose somebody else for a change?") What is does mean is that I have greater responsibility to the family, just as the Jew has a greater responsibility to obey G-d. I have a greater burden to keep the traditions of the family and to represent the family to the world. The family name and reputation depends more greatly on my actions than that of the younger siblings, in general. I get away with less, the rules are more unbendable for the first born than the other children, etc.

Just ask most kids about this and they can more clearly articulate the role of first born and the envy based on mis-understood responsibilities vs. supposed privilege than can any theologian.

An other example:

The president of a company is no more important than the vice-president. The company by-laws sets out different and separate roles and responsibilities. The VP can choose to feel inferior but that is a problem with him, not the president or the person who chose the president, or with the by-laws.

Just as with Torah, and Jews who believe or non-Jews who believe, being first born, or the president in no way means that one is inherently better or that the other is less. Just because one *feels* inferior in no way means it is so.

And as a Gentile, I do feel a bit "excluded" or "segregated" from my Jewish brothers, because they would rather not identify themselves too close to me

The term christian, in today's world, is a term of the Hellenistic or historically Greek cultural community. That means all or most of what we know as the "Western" culture. Jewish, historically and by at least some definitions, is specifically non-Hellenistic. (See the histories of Khanukkah for discussions and views on this point.)

I do not see how a Jew refusing to be called a christian means that "they would rather not identify themselves too close to me." Do they fail to call themselves human, or sinners or in need of salvation?? How then does not calling themselves christian then do this? They are not christians, they are Jews.

I am a gentile. And while I identify much more closely to the non-Hellenistic community I identify myself as a Messianic Gerah Toshav - that is, a non-Jewish woman who is learning to obey Torah. I do not and never have identified myself as a Jew. I am not Jewish - even though I am mistaken for a Jew even by Jews sometimes because I keep more of Torah than many of them do.

If and when HaShem allows, I will convert and take on the entire mantel of Judaism and the burden of *being Jewish.* Until then it is my valued opportunity to surround, protect, stand by and support Jews, Judaism and Israel. I in no way feel inferior or "second class" to any Jew I know.

I am excluded and segregated from being Jewish until G-d allows me to convert. It is G-d who has excluded and segregated me as it is He who saw to it that I was not born Jewish.

If an African failed to allow someone to call them Nordic would that too seem separationist? And how would it make the one insisting on such a claim seem to be in the eyes of the African? Is the African better than the Nordic? Is a lion better than a tiger? But calling a tiger a lion is just plain ignorant of the facts as G-d created them, nu?

Why blame the Jew for choices and rules/commandments that G-d made?

 

[sojeru]

Hi Hanaynei

Sha'ul kept the Shabbat, the feasts and festivals, kosher and continued to make sacrifices in the Temple. Yet, did he see himself as better or superior to the non-Jewish believer?

here, read this:
ALIENS

By Greg Killian
​

I am trying to understand how Gentile believers "fit" with God's plan for Israel.



1616 ger, gare; or (fully) geyr, gare; from 1481; prop. a guest; by impl. a foreigner:-alien, sojourner, stranger. ^ gur. See 1482.



This first series of verses pertain to the "alien living among you (Israel)":



Shemot (Exodus) 12:48-49 "An alien living among you who wants to celebrate the LORD'S Passover must have all the males in his household circumcised; then he may take part like one born in the land. No uncircumcised male may eat of it. The same law applies to the native-born and to the alien living among you."



Bamidbar (Numbers) 9:14 "'An alien living among you who wants to celebrate the LORD'S Passover must do so in accordance with its rules and regulations. You must have the same regulations for the alien and the native-born.'"



He was allowed to celebrate Passover if all males in his household were circumcised. He had all the same rules that the Israelites had.





Shemot (Exodus) 12:14-20 "This is a day you are to commemorate; for the generations to come you shall celebrate it as a festival to the LORD--a lasting ordinance. For seven days you are to eat bread made without yeast. On the first day remove the yeast from your houses, for whoever eats anything with yeast in it from the first day through the seventh must be cut off from Israel. On the first day hold a sacred assembly, and another one on the seventh day. Do no work at all on these days, except
to prepare food for everyone to eat--that is all you may do. "Celebrate the Feast of Unleavened Bread, because it was on this very day that I brought your divisions out of Egypt. Celebrate this day as a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. In the first month you are to eat bread made without yeast, from the evening of the fourteenth day until the evening of the twenty-first day. For seven days no yeast is to be found in your houses. And whoever eats anything with yeast in it must be cut off from the community of Israel, whether he is an alien or native-born. Eat nothing made with yeast. Wherever you live, you must eat unleavened bread."



Eating yeast during Hag HaMatza was not optional.





Vayikra (Leviticus) 16:29-31 "This is to be a lasting ordinance for you: On the tenth day of the seventh month you must deny yourselves and not do any work--whether native-born or an alien living among you-- Because on this day atonement will be made for you, to cleanse you. Then, before the LORD, you will be clean from all your sins. It is a Sabbath of rest, and you must deny yourselves; it is a lasting ordinance.



He was required to observe the Day of Atonement.



Shemot (Exodus) 20:8-11 "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, But the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. For in six days the LORD made the heavens
and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.



Shemot (Exodus) 23:12 "Six days do your work, but on the seventh day do not work, so that your ox and your donkey may rest and the slave born in your household, and the alien as well, may be refreshed.



Devarim (Deuteronomy) 5:12-15 "Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the LORD your God has commanded you. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, But the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor the alien within your gates, so that your manservant and maidservant may rest, as you do. Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.



He was required to rest on Shabbat.





Vayikra (Leviticus) 17:8-9 "Say to them: 'Any Israelite or any alien living among them who offers a burnt offering or sacrifice And does not bring it to the entrance to the Tent of Meeting to sacrifice it to the LORD--that man must be cut off from his people.



The alien "had" to bring his sacrifice to the same place an Israelite did.





Vayikra (Leviticus) 17:10-14 "'Any Israelite or any alien living among them who eats any blood--I will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people. For the life of a
creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life. Therefore I say to the Israelites, "None of you may eat blood, nor may an alien living among you eat blood." "'Any Israelite or any alien living among you who hunts any animal or bird that may be eaten must drain out the blood and cover it with earth, Because the life of every creature is its blood. That is why I have said to the Israelites, "You must not eat the blood of any creature, because the life of every creature is its blood; anyone who eats it must be cut off."



He was forbidden to eat blood.





Vayikra (Leviticus) 17:15-16 "'Anyone, whether native-born or alien, who eats anything found dead or torn by wild animals must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be ceremonially unclean till evening; then he will be clean. But if he does not wash his clothes and bathe himself, he will be held responsible.'"



He was not allowed to eat already dead animals without becoming unclean.

(to be continued)

 

[sojeru]

Devarim (Deuteronomy) 14:21 Do not eat anything you find already dead. You may give it to an alien living in any of your towns, and he may eat it, or you may sell it to a foreigner (ger). But you are a people holy to the LORD your God. Do not cook a young goat in its mother's milk.



This is baffling...How do we have the same law and allow this?





Vayikra (Leviticus) 20:1-8 The LORD said to Moses, "Say to the Israelites: 'Any Israelite or any alien living in Israel who gives any of his children to Molech must be put to death. The people of the community
are to stone him. I will set my face against that man and I will cut him off from his people; for by giving his children to Molech, he has defiled my sanctuary and profaned my holy name. If the people of the community close their eyes when that man gives one of his children to Molech and they fail to put him to death, I will set my face against that man and his family and will cut off from their people both him and all who follow him in prostituting themselves to Molech. "'I will set my face against the person who turns to mediums and spiritists to prostitute himself by following them, and I will cut him off from his people. "'Consecrate yourselves and be holy, because I am the LORD your God. Keep my decrees and follow them. I am the LORD, who makes you holy.



He was not allowed to offer his children to Molech.





Vayikra (Leviticus) 22:17-20 The LORD said to Moses, "Speak to Aaron and his sons and to all the Israelites and say to them: 'If any of you--either an Israelite or an alien living in Israel--presents a gift for a burnt offering to the LORD, either to fulfill a vow or as a freewill offering, You must present a male without defect from the cattle, sheep or goats in order that it may be accepted on your behalf. Do not bring anything with a defect, because it will not be accepted on your behalf.



His burnt offering was the same as an Israelites'.





Vayikra (Leviticus) 24:10-23 Now the son of an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father went out among the Israelites, and a fight broke out in the camp between him and an Israelite. The son of the Israelite woman blasphemed the Name with a curse; so they brought him to Moses. (His mother's name was Shelomith, the daughter of Dibri the
Danite.) They put him in custody until the will of the LORD should be made clear to them. Then the LORD said to Moses: "Take the blasphemer outside the camp. All those who heard him are to lay their hands on his head, and the entire assembly is to stone him. Say to the Israelites: 'If anyone curses his God, he will be held responsible; Anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him. Whether an alien or native-born, when he blasphemes the Name, he must be put to death. "'If anyone takes the life of a human being, he must be put to death. Anyone who takes the life of someone's animal must make restitution--life for life. If anyone injures his neighbor, whatever he has done must be done to him: Fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth. As he has injured the other, so he is to be injured. Whoever kills an animal must make restitution, but whoever kills a man must be put to death. You are to have the same law for the alien and the native-born. I am the LORD your God.'" Then Moses spoke to the Israelites, and they took the blasphemer outside the camp and stoned him. The Israelites did as the LORD commanded Moses.



Blasphemer were to be stoned.

The same law applied to Israelites and aliens.





Bamidbar (Numbers) 15:14-16 For the generations to come, whenever an alien or anyone else living among you presents an offering made by fire as an aroma pleasing to the LORD, he must do exactly as you do. The community is to have the same rules for you and for the alien living among you; this is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. You and the alien shall be the same before the LORD: The same laws and regulations will apply both to you and to the alien living among you.'"



The sacrificial law applied to both the Israelite and the alien.



Bamidbar (Numbers) 15:22-31 "'Now if you unintentionally fail to keep any of these commands the LORD gave Moses-- Any of the LORD'S commands to you through him, from the day the LORD gave them and continuing through the generations to come-- And if this is done unintentionally without the community being aware of it, then the whole community is to offer a young bull for a burnt offering as an aroma pleasing to the LORD, along with its prescribed grain offering and drink offering, and a male goat for a sin offering. The priest is to make atonement for the whole Israelite community, and they will be forgiven, for it was not intentional and they have brought to the LORD for their wrong an offering made by fire and a sin offering. The whole Israelite community and the aliens living among them will be forgiven, because all the people were involved in the unintentional wrong. "'But if just one person sins unintentionally, he must bring a year-old female goat for a sin offering. The priest is to make atonement before the LORD for the one who erred by sinning unintentionally, and when atonement has been made for him, he will be forgiven. One and the same law applies to everyone who sins unintentionally, whether he is a native-born Israelite or an alien. "'But anyone who sins defiantly, whether native-born or alien, blasphemes the LORD, and that person must be cut off from his people. Because he has despised the LORD'S word and broken his commands, that person must surely be cut off; his guilt remains on him.'"



Unintentional or intentional sin...the alien is treated like an Israelite.



Devarim (Deuteronomy) 10:14-22 To the LORD your God belong the heavens, even the highest heavens, the earth and everything in it. Yet the LORD set his
affection on your forefathers and loved them, and he chose you, their descendants, above all the nations, as it is today. Circumcise your hearts, therefore, and do not be stiff-necked any longer. For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality and accepts no bribes. He defends the cause of the fatherless and the widow, and loves the alien, giving him food and clothing. And you are to love those who are aliens, for you yourselves were aliens in Egypt. Fear the LORD your God and serve him. Hold fast to him and take your oaths in his name. He is your praise; he is your God, who performed for you those great and awesome wonders you saw with your own eyes. Your forefathers who went down into Egypt were seventy in all, and now the LORD your God has made you as numerous as the stars in the sky.



Tehillim (Psalms) 146:1-10 Praise the LORD. Praise the LORD, O my soul. I will praise the LORD all my life; I will sing praise to my God as long as I live. Do not put your trust in princes, in mortal men, who cannot save. When their spirit departs, they return to the ground; on that very day their plans come to nothing. Blessed is he whose help is the God of Jacob, whose hope is in the LORD his God, The Maker of heaven and earth, the sea, and everything in them--the LORD, who remains faithful forever. He upholds the cause of the oppressed and gives food to the hungry. The LORD sets prisoners free, The LORD gives sight to the blind, the LORD lifts up those who are bowed down, the LORD loves the righteous. The LORD watches over the alien and sustains the fatherless and the widow, but he frustrates the ways of the wicked. The LORD reigns forever, your God, O Zion, for all generations. Praise the LORD.



God loves the alien (The implication is that he is chosen).

I Melakim (Kings) 8:37-43 "When famine or plague comes to the land, or blight or mildew, locusts or grasshoppers, or when an enemy besieges them in any of their cities, whatever disaster or disease may come, And when a prayer or plea is made by any of your people Israel--each one aware of the afflictions of his own heart, and spreading out his hands toward this temple-- Then hear from heaven, your dwelling place. Forgive and act; deal with each man according to all he does, since you know his heart (for you alone know the hearts of all men), So that they will fear you all the time they live in the land you gave our fathers. "As for the foreigner who does not belong to your people Israel but has come from a distant land because of your name-- For men will hear of your great name and your mighty hand and your outstretched arm--when he comes and prays toward this temple, Then hear from heaven, your dwelling place, and do whatever the foreigner asks of you, so that all the peoples of the earth may know your name and fear you, as do your own people Israel, and may know that this house I have built bears your Name.





The alien was to be allotted a share of the land in which he settled:



Yechezkel (Ezekiel) 47:21-23 "You are to distribute this land among yourselves according to the tribes of Israel. You are to allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the aliens who have settled among you and who have children. You are to consider them as native-born Israelites; along with you they are to be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel. In whatever tribe the alien settles, there you are to give him his inheritance," declares the Sovereign LORD.



Consider also that Caleb received an inheritance and that he was NOT a descendent of Jacob:



Bereshit (Genesis) 15:12-21 As the sun was setting, Abram fell into a deep sleep, and a thick and dreadful darkness came over him. Then the LORD said to him, "Know for certain that your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own, and they will be enslaved and mistreated four hundred years. But I will punish the nation they serve as slaves, and afterward they will come out with great possessions. You, however, will go to your fathers in peace and be buried at a good old age. In the fourth generation your descendants will come back here, for the sin of the Amorites has not yet reached its full measure." When the sun had set and darkness had fallen, a smoking firepot with a blazing torch appeared and passed between the pieces. On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram and said, "To your descendants I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates-- The land of the Kenites, Kenizzites, Kadmonites, Hittites, Perizzites, Rephaites, Amorites, Canaanites, Girga*****s and Jebusites."



Bamidbar (Numbers) 32:12 Not one except Caleb son of Jephunneh the Kenizzite and Yahoshua (Joshua) son of Nun, for they followed the LORD wholeheartedly.'



Devarim (Deuteronomy) 1:36 Except Caleb son of Jephunneh. He will see it, and I will give him and his descendants the land he set his feet on, because he followed the LORD wholeheartedly."





5237 nokriy, nok-ree'; from 5235 (second form); strange, in a variety of degrees and applications (foreign, non-relative, adulterous, different, wonderful):-alien, foreigner, outlandish, strange (-r, woman).

 

[sojeru]

Devarim (Deuteronomy) 17:14-15 When you enter the land the LORD your God is giving you and have taken possession of it and settled in it, and you say, "Let us set a king over us like all the nations around us," Be sure to appoint over you the king the LORD your God chooses. He must be from among your own brothers. Do not place a foreigner (ish) over you, one who is not a brother Israelite.



This stranger is different too (this is our nokree).



Devarim (Deuteronomy) 15:1-5 At the end of every seven years you must cancel debts. This is how it is to be done: Every creditor shall cancel the loan he has made to his fellow Israelite. He shall not require payment from his fellow Israelite or brother, because the LORD'S time for canceling debts has been proclaimed. You may require payment from a foreigner, but you must cancel any debt your brother owes you. However, there should be no poor among you, for in the land the LORD your God is giving you to possess as your inheritance, he will richly bless you, If only you fully obey the LORD your God and are careful to follow all these commands I am giving you today.





Devarim (Deuteronomy) 23:19-20 Do not charge your brother interest, whether on money or food or anything else that may earn interest. You may charge a foreigner interest, but not a brother Israelite, so that the LORD your God may bless you in everything you put your hand to in the land you are entering to possess.

God Fearer
​

II Luqas (Acts) 10:1-8 At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion in what was known as the Italian Regiment. He and all his family were devout and God-
fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly. One day at about three in the afternoon he had a vision. He distinctly saw an angel of God, who came to him and said, "Cornelius!" Cornelius stared at him in fear. "What is it, Lord?" he asked. The angel answered, "Your prayers and gifts to the poor have come up as a memorial offering before God. Now send men to Joppa to bring back a man named Simon who is called Tzefet (Peter). He is staying with Simon the tanner, whose house is by the sea." When the angel who spoke to him had gone, Cornelius called two of his servants and a devout soldier who was one of his attendants. He told them everything that had happened and sent them to Joppa.



Cornelius gets baptized with the Holy Spirit.





Kohelet (Ecclesiastes) 8:12 Although a wicked man commits a hundred crimes and still lives a long time, I know that it will go better with God-fearing men, who are reverent before God.



II Luqas (Acts) 2:1-13 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them. Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard them speaking in his own language. Utterly amazed, they asked: "Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans? Then how is it that each of us hears them in his own native language? Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia,
Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome (Both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs--we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!" Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, "What does this mean?" Some, however, made fun of them and said, "They have had too much wine."





II Luqas (Acts) 13:26-31 "Brothers, children of Abraham, and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent. The people of Jerusalem and their rulers did not recognize Yeshua, yet in condemning him they fulfilled the words of the prophets that are read every Sabbath. Though they found no proper ground for a death sentence, they asked Pilate to have him executed. When they had carried out all that was written about him, they took him down from the tree and laid him in a tomb. But God raised him from the dead, And for many days he was seen by those who had traveled with him from Galilee to Jerusalem. They are now his witnesses to our people.



II Luqas (Acts) 13:46-51 Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: "We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles. For this is what the Lord has commanded us: "'I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.'" When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed. The word of the Lord spread through the whole region. But the Jews incited the God-fearing women of high standing and the leading men of the city. They stirred up persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and expelled them from their region. So they
shook the dust from their feet in protest against them and went to Iconium.





II Luqas (Acts) 17:1-4 When they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a Jewish synagogue. As his custom was, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, Explaining and proving that the Christ had to suffer and rise from the dead. "This Yeshua I am proclaiming to you is the Christ," he said. Some of the Jews were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a large number of God-fearing Greeks and not a few prominent women.





4576 sebomai, seb'-om-ahee; mid. of an appar. prim. verb; to revere, i.e. adore:-devout, religious, worship.





II Luqas (Acts) 17:16-17 While Paul was waiting for them in Athens, he was greatly distressed to see that the city was full of idols. So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the God-fearing Greeks, as well as in the marketplace day by day with those who happened to be there.



Conclusion:



Yeshayah (Isaiah) 56:2-8 Blessed is the man who does this, the man who holds it fast, who keeps the Sabbath without desecrating it, and keeps his hand from doing any evil." Let no foreigner who has bound himself to the LORD say, "The LORD will surely exclude me from his people." And let not any eunuch complain, "I am only a dry tree." For this is what the LORD says: "To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who choose what pleases me and hold fast to my covenant-- To them I will give within my temple and its walls a memorial and a name better than sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name that will not be
cut off. And foreigners who bind themselves to the LORD to serve him, to love the name of the LORD, and to worship him, all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it and who hold fast to my covenant-- These I will bring to my holy mountain and give them joy in my house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations." The Sovereign LORD declares--he who gathers the exiles of Israel: "I will gather still others to them besides those already gathered."

This study was written by Greg Killian.
​

Comments may be submitted to:
​

Greg Killian
​

201 Marqos (Mark)sfield Circle #6
​

Louisville, Kentucky 40222
​

Internet address: gkilli@aol.com
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Web page: http://members.aol.com/gkilli/home/
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502-425-8956
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Send comments to Greg Killian at his email address: gkilli@aol.com.
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ME: so there isnt much difference at all between the gentile and Born citizen Israeli

 

[Henaynei]

so there isnt much difference at all between the gentile and Born citizen Israeli

The primary (but not exclusive) distinction is that the Ger is one living among the commonwealth of Israel, not actually a Jew, but obeying all the pertainent Laws. This is not the same as a Gentile who is a non-Jew that does not keep Torah - believer or not.

There do remain some distinctions, as pointed out by Mr. Killian - whose scholarship I admire and have read for years - that remain even for the Ger Toshav. He is still not a Jew.

 

[sojeru]

never was it stated that the Ger is Israeli/Jew- however only that there is very little difference if any (in which there are-the ger does have NO NEED to be circumcised UNLESS he wants to partake of pesach, is one example.)

 

[Henaynei]

Shalom Sojeru,
You and I are in agreement on this subject :0)

May G-d grant to you health, peace, prosperity and security as you bring honor to His Name and comfort His people in this new year - L'Shanah Tovah...

Henaynei

 

[sojeru]

intresting, where do you have your community?

 

[Henaynei]

We are currently in west central Florida.

We were part of a local MJ community whose leader claimed Torah observance but where those who visibly kept Torah were branded as extremists and trouble makers by those who wanted to be call Jews but did not want to keep any of Torah except that which seemed expedient or good to them. One might call them quasi-nomians.

These also turned out to be the major tithers in a small and struggling community. Our presence over several years was making them uncomfortable and was jeopardizing the existence of the community at large.

We are currently seeking G-d for direction in a vision He gave my husband several years ago - a non-synagogual study group. This group would be designed to teach and raise up congregants and leaders outside of the MJ synagogue who were Torah observant and who would be the grass roots in MJ synagogues that would support and respond to Rabbis who are called to lead Torah observant MJ congregations but have a majority of "church-y" members who resist true Torah for the love of G-d.

We seek to keep Torah and the traditions all, unless one can show where or why one specific tradition or another is in conflict with Scripture.

This is in direct conflict with a great many "MJs" whose stand is "show me why and I'll consider it" rather than "I'll do it until someone shows me shy not."

This is poorly explained, and I apologize.

 

[yod]

Jews that preached Jesus came to Antioch to preach in the first place, including Barnabas. You mean to tell me that the pagans called them something else?

Can you see two guys in Antioch saying "Hey, look at that Christian over there." And his friend says "No, that's not a Christian, thats a Messianic Jew!"

It isn't as far fetched as it seems. Jews remained jewish when they came to faith in Yeshua. They were a different sect within many sects of Judaism, but jewish nonetheless. However, a gentile who converted to judaism before Yeshua was called a Ger ("God Fearer" in the book of Acts) but what would they call a Greek ("Hellen" is translated as gentile in the NT) who had converted to this particular sect? They weren't jewish or even a prostelyte because they had not been circumcised. So it entirely likely that the jews came up with a name for these gentiles...and the jews were just called jews because, after all, they were doing what the God of Israel had told them. Did they become something other than jewish by virtue of that?

How do you/we label ourselves?

there is a difference between a christian and a messianic and words are meant to communicate ideas.
I would call myself messianic if I am communicating with someone who would understand what I meant by that. I would call myself christian otherwise.

Do you feel it is inherrently wrong for a Jewish Believer to be labelled "christian"?

That would be a matter of their preference. Again, if you are trying to say "a jew who believes in Yeshua" and the hearer doesn't understand the terms then it would be expedient just to say "christian" because the point is understood.

Is it a matter of preference or does it go beyond that?

With some people it does....but I avoid that kind of baggage.

Which does Messianic Judaism reflect more closely: christianity or Judaism?

Biblical judaism and biblical christianity.

Unless we are talking about a messianic congregation that is hung up in all the "stuff" of rabbinic judaism.