Simchat,
There is a reason why I have an issue with this division in the assembly that is caused by this Jewish/now-Jewish concept.
I do not know if I mentioned it on another thread, but there are many people who are claiming that they are Jewish who really aren't. It seems that some people are getting false conversions to Judaism so that they can appear to have greater understanding on the Hebraic teachings, to be able to set up shop in Israel, and to use it as a superiority lever over the non-Jews.This only creates a caste system, and is not scriptural. There has been allegations on various sites and forums referencing this.
I found this posted on a Messianic forum by a lady named Kathryn Kern. Below is an excerpt:
But in this move, you not only have Jews that are following this Hebraic
path, but those that were of Goy birth.
Where do they fit into Messianic Judaism? This is an issue
that I have yet to see resolved. I feel that it was never adequately
dealt with and as a city that grows quickly without any planning for
streets and such, but just sprawls, the undealt with issues have now
started to deal with themselves, much to the dismay of the Messianic
Jewish community.
Since some taught the predominance of the Jew, some Goyiym not content
with being treated as a "second class citizen" tried to find how they
fit. This has been the root of a number of problems. Some of these
wandering Goy became groups that call themselves Two House and House
of Ephraim. Some simply did a geneaology search and miracuously found
that they had Jewish lineage and now they are not the "despised" Goy,
but Jewish. Others did not even want the question about their
background to be an issue and made up their own Jewish background.
Some made formal conversions. And finally, some have had false
conversions.
Any one of those situations can be enough of a problem for the
Messianic community, but add a person that wants power, position and a
following to it and you have a recipe for disaster, not just for the
Messianic community, but most especially for the witness to the Jewish
community. Imagine Barbara, the distrust or hatred that a
non-Messianic Jew would have, having dealt with any of the above. Of
course Jews for Judaism is going to jump on this. I would if I were
them. They do not like any inroads that Messianics are going to have
towards their followers, any more than the traditional Christians are
going to have with theirs. It is unavoidable that Messianics are going
to be in the crosshirs of both groups. Christians see them as Jews and
Jews see them as Christians. This issue is too broad to be covered in
this post, what is the crucial factor is uprightness before YHWH. You
are correct Barbara, we should live according to Scripture.
> Vicky said:
> They apparently are not Jewish, but had a "conversion" in Colorado by a
> "questionable " rabbi. Perhaps someone from Jews for Judaism would be
> able to confirm this information.
> Jews for Judaism? Now there is a group that just LOVES us! NOT!
> Okay. With thoughts of Jews for Judaism now being consulted to check up
> on the authenticity of Messianics, I'm through.
Barbara, when I was researching Trimm and dealing with his beit din,
since they were basing their house of judgement on the Jewish
principles of being Jewish, I had already found that James Trimm was
not Jewish. I received an email that Michael Detwiler, James' Av and
vice-president of SANJ, was also not Jewish but had bought a false
conversion from a rabbi named Lerer, in Denver. I called several of
the synagogues in Denver to try and locate the rabbi. It turned out
that Rabbi Nathan Lerer was not even a legitimate rabbi. I spoke with
Nathan Lerer. Yes he did the conversions of Michael Detwiler, his
family, including Christopher Detwiler, who also goes by the name of
Boaz Detwiler and Boaz Michael, of FFOZ, and of Ralph Messer. I also
spoke with Ralph Messer. The first time I asked about Nathan Lerer, in
reference to Michael Detwiler, he said that he did not know him. Then
after I spoke with Nathan Lerer, Messer admitted that he knew him and
that they had undergone a conversion of sorts, but that he did not
consider it legit, but more like an anointing. It was done in a
swimming pool. No test was given. Michael Detwiler first stated that
they had not undergone a conversion, then when he knew that I had
spoken with Lerer, admitted, but said that it was legit and they had a
long test to take. When I asked about the denying Messiah aspect of a
formal conversion, he said that Lerer did not ask and they did not
deny. Lerer said that he did know and they were making formal conversion.
Lerer made numerous conversions to Goy who now claim to be Jewish and
act as if they always were, lording it over others and setting up
their own organizations, marketing their "Jewishness", publishing
their version of Torah. Detwiler paid several thousand dollars for
his. Messer now calls himself Rabbi and has even issued a get, from
what I last heard. I dont know how many more have been issued. How do
you think this looks to the Jewish community? Does this make them want
to accept this Messiah that these liars, deceivers and theives speak
of with their agendas and marketing of the Jewish heritage?
I know that some from Jews for Judaism participate at this forum. I
have spoken with Moshe Shulman several times when he heard that I had
proof that Trimm was not Jewish. Where I may not agree with his
position concerning Messiah, he did not lie to me or present himself
as anything other than what he was, nor was he attacking. I had also
spoken with Mark Powers of Jews for Judaism. Mark never lied to me,
nor was he attacking. In fact we had some great conversations. I
enjoyed his questions and comments concerning if there was a Messiah.
And if you read this Mark, I am still researching some of the subjects
we spoke about. These two men conducted themselves uprightly in their
dealings with me. Yet James Trimm and Michael Detwiler did lie to me,
and did attack me. Michael later wrote a letter and called to ask my
forgiveness. Ralph Messer also lied to me.
Tell me how that looks for the Messianic community when these three
men, who are not Jewish, but claiming to be and have major
organizations behave so poorly. It is not Jews for Judaism you need to
worry about. And just because they are from Jews for Judaism, would
not negate the fact that they were the first to investigate Nathan
Lerer for false conversions. Their information in the matter is
correct. They were simply trying to protect their community and
rightly so. I wish the Messianic community protected themselves as
zealously. I verified all their accounts. That was all that Vicky was
referring to, not all Messianics.
Just as you may not agree with Vicky theologically, does not negate
the validity of her research concerning Trimm and Hargis. Vicky did
not come to this forum with her views about Hebraic Roots and such.
Her website was posted by members here, just for the Trimm/Hargis
research. You could probably read through a number of real Messianic
leaders websites and find things that you dont agree with.
Unfortunately there is no standard in the Messianic community and as
such there are a wide range of views out there. This is a problem with
no easy solution. All I can say is that despite not being Jewish and
not being a Christian anymore, I have felt a need to protect the
Messianic, the Jewish and Christian community from James Trimm and
all, who seek to deceive and steal.
And as to cleaning your fridge, I wish that I had your motivation. One
of my kids has teased me about an experiment in the back of the fridge.
Shalom, Kathryn
HT:
The above writing was originally posted by the webmaster of this website:
http://www.lebtahor.com/truth/trimm/jamestrimm.htm
gotta go....
