What's wrong with astrology?

[Phronema]

Before becoming EO, was deep in astrology and over a very long period of life. Have abandoned practicing astrology in the sense of doing forecasts and interpretation, but still have strong lingering questions as to why the Church prohibits it. Hoping for more information, and preferably source material such as canons, writings from the Church fathers, etc.

I guess I struggle with knowing that, basically, astrology does work at a certain level, not perfectly but much more often than it should if it were purely superstition or imagination or even supernatural demonic influence. I've seen it work, and I can't pretend I haven't and just forget about it.

Is it wrong to notice there are existing patterns and cycles between the celestial bodies and events/people on earth? In that vein, how does the Church in modern times distance itself from astrology but accept meteorology (prediction based on observing repetitive natural behavior and patterns) or something like predicting sun spots/solar cycles?

I've read that in Byzantium there were discussions and distinctions made between legitimate astrology and "bad" astrology as practiced by magicians; was astrology banned because it suffered a bad reputation from the people who practiced it rather than the practice itself?

Nearly all modern astrology is absolutely garbage. But, if serious people who knew what they were doing did proper research and showed patterns and cycles that produce predictable and reliable results, if it were shown to be more "scientific" than it is currently believed to be, would the Church accept that?

Why are there zodiac sign wheels in the early churches?

Why does practicing astrology prohibit someone from receiving Holy Communion?

A thing I hear from priests (etc.) is that astrology is prohibited because God is bigger than the celestial bodies and therefore our faith and observance belongs to Him. True, but I don't see yet how that is different than meteorology and the like. God is also bigger than the 7 day forecast our tv anchor give us, and He could certainly change the cycles of solar maximum and minimum, but as it is He allows certain natural rhythms to exist and govern our lives to a degree (in the sense that a degree of our lives are affected by weather, for example).

Trying to understand.

In short we're putting astrology before God, and saying that He is subjected to it rather than it to Him. There's a good read on it below. Here are some highlights. Also there are quotes from the Church Fathers in the article as well.

"Jeremiah in Chapter 10 verse 2 writes:

Learn not the way of the unbelievers, nor be dismayed at the signs of the stars because the nations are dismayed at them, for the beliefs of these people are false."

You asked about Canon Law.

"Our Canon law prohibits people from believing in astrology. In fact, Canon 36 of Laodecia in 369 casts out of the Church people who make, sell, buy or wear the zodiac signs."

Astrology is Astrolatry - Theology

Last, you can't compare meteorology to astrology. As archer mentioned one is based in science which does not conflict with the church, and the other is based on idolatrous superstition. No offense meant to you personally in that last portion there.

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

It's no different than thinking you can point a stick at the ground and magically find water,

Interestingly, that example of hocum is still under doubt. A German study found dousing for water more effective than chance in arid areas, but why this is so is an open question:

Finding Water With A Forked Stick May Not Be A Hoax


To chime in, I agree Astrology is hocum and accepts Fatalism. The weird thing is though, that this modern Determinism favoured by some atheists actually argues in favour of the central principle of Astrology. If Naturalistic Materialism holds, then observing the heavenly bodies would allow you to predict the activity of matter on earth (not with any certainty mind you, but in theory certainly, if all material interactions could be described). This is essentially the problem, that Astrology, like determinist Atheism, denies both human and divine Will. It is certainly incongruous to Christian thought.

 

[Aussie Pete]

This is true, and I really do try to leave it alone, I just struggle with the "just because it works doesn't make it right" part.

You need to come to terms with that. We've already had a false phenomenon sweep the church that deceived many. There were signs and wonders, and they were genuine, but they were the wrong source. Lord Jesus warned us that the elect could be deceived. Satan can appear as an angel of light.

 

[Nick T]

I agree completely with modern astrology being garbage, period.

As for Byzantium, here's one example I found, which shows something that is confusing from a modern standpoint: bad astrology is bad astrology, period; some people tried to get "good" astrology accepted, which it wasn't and in fact the Church doubled down on it; but the Church also didn't always recognize astronomy as being OK either?

The distinction between astrology and astronomy was less developed in the medieval period and the two were often conflated, hence ecclesiastical suspicion of any study of the stars. Furthermore it's important to remember Byzantium wasn't a monastic state- astrology, superstition, and all sorts of nonsense were widely practised like in any contemporary civilisation. The only thing that's important for us to know is astrology was universally and unequivocally prohibited by the canons of the Church and condemned by the Fathers.

If you want detail I think Origen wrote some well received stuff against it. As I understand the main objection is that which ViaCrucis pointed out- Fatalism, the idea that our actions are predetermined by some naturalistic cause. You can see how this is incompatible with Orthodoxy: if we have no control over what we feel or how we act or what our fate is, then how can God call us and expect us to obey him and receive eternal life? It would be out of our control. Not to mention it makes a complete mockery of Holy Baptism, which regenerates us and brings us under God's authority. And yet under astrology we would still be bound to our astral "fate" and whatever sinful inclinations come with it. This is why even belief in the veracity of astrology is very strange from an Orthodox perspective.

Edit: This might be a helpful link: The Philocalia of Origen (1911) pp. 1-237. English translation

 

[agapelove]

I do not know much about the subject but personally I believe you can participate in both astrology and Christianity.

Let there be lights in the heaven and let them be for Signs. Genesis 1:14

There is beauty in seeing that we are so connected with the cosmos. We are rooted with God’s creation in ways we do not even comprehend. If astrology helps you come more fully into the wonder of God then I should not tell you otherwise.

 

[prodromos]

Why the use of astrological symbols in Orthodox churches? This is one example but there's many more

View attachment 276189

To demonstrate that Christ is master over all.

 

[prodromos]

I know someone who used to have prophetic dreams, with accurate details down to the exact words someone would say to them. Her spiritual father (our priest) advised her not to pay any attention to them and after a little while she stopped having such dreams. Our priest discerned that the dreams were not of God and could lead to a kind of spiritual pride. I suspect your success in astrology may have had a similar source.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I do not know much about the subject but personally I believe you can participate in both astrology and Christianity.

Let there be lights in the heaven and let them be for Signs. Genesis 1:14

There is beauty in seeing that we are so connected with the cosmos. We are rooted with God’s creation in ways we do not even comprehend. If astrology helps you come more fully into the wonder of God then I should not tell you otherwise.

astrology's issue is not that there is glory and beauty across the stars. astrology's issue is that it puts qualities in the stars or our births that don't belong to them.

 

[OrthodoxWanderer]

To demonstrate that Christ is master over all.

Ah, ok. Makes sense.

 

[OrthodoxWanderer]

If you want detail I think Origen wrote some well received stuff against it...

Edit: This might be a helpful link: The Philocalia of Origen (1911) pp. 1-237. English translation

That's actually incredibly helpful!! More than you know. It's actually what I was hoping to find. I will continue to study this and most likely will have follow up questions, just to be sure I'm on the right track in understanding the implications. But, yes, I had a few lightbulb moments from this, so thank you so much!

 

[OrthodoxWanderer]

I do not know much about the subject but personally I believe you can participate in both astrology and Christianity.

Let there be lights in the heaven and let them be for Signs. Genesis 1:14

There is beauty in seeing that we are so connected with the cosmos. We are rooted with God’s creation in ways we do not even comprehend. If astrology helps you come more fully into the wonder of God then I should not tell you otherwise.

Astrology is hands down the biggest regret of my life. Take it from someone who knows, it's a cancer.

 

[agapelove]

Astrology is hands down the biggest regret of my life. Take it from someone who knows, it's a cancer.

Then you seem to know the answer to your own question.

 

[OrthodoxWanderer]

Then you seem to know the answer to your own question.

Knowing something internally in soul/spirit doesn't always help the intellect when information is missing. I have received a lot of information here that has helped to that end. Thanks everyone and sorry to bother anyone with it.

 

[Phronema]

Knowing something internally in soul/spirit doesn't always help the intellect when information is missing. I have received a lot of information here that has helped to that end. Thanks everyone and sorry to bother anyone with it.

I doubt you've bothered anyone at all. If anything someone may have, or someday will have a similar question, and this thread can serve as a resource. I've had old threads here on TAW come up when I've searched for things before. Anyhow it certainly didn't bother me at all.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

I'm also guessing that there was a crossover between astrology and astronomy much like alchemy and chemistry where "signs" in the heavens were important for an agricultural society.