What's with the Crucifix as a symbol?

[Greatcloak]

Using Jesus's emancipated corpse bound to cross seems a little off to me. Yes, he did suffer and die upon it for us, but focusing on that's like ending the LotR Return of the King with Golum grabbing the ring, cut to Saurons eye glowing malevolently, roll the credits, The End. It's depressing!

There's more to the story. Yes Jesus was on the cross, but HE'S NOT THERE ANYMORE! He rose! That's the happy ending. He triumphed over death, sin and the grave that we could be free. It's a happy ending! Why look to the most bleak and hopeless aspect and use that as your constant reminder. It's no wonder so many catholics seem melancholy.
What's with that? Am I missing something with the symbolism on this one? It's been bugging me for months.

 

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

Yes, you are missing out.

Perhaps it's down to personality.

When life is being, well, pretty naff, which has more meaning to you:

The idea that Jesus rose from the dead
The idea that Jesus has been there with us in the worst of it?

For some people it's the first. Sounds like that's you.

For others of us it's the latter.

It's a bit like the question of whether, when we're depressed, we prefer to listen to cheerful or depressing music. Me, when I'm down, I put on Pink Floyd's The Wall. Something cheery would just rub salt into the wounds.

It's down to personality.

 

[mpshiel]

I agree, I find the whole thing sort of morbid - kind of like the penchant in the middle ages for having the nails or bones of saints to kiss. I found a good verse the other day Mark 1:15 "He is not a God of the dead but of the living." -

For me, Jesus is here, communicating with me and seen in different ways in the people I know. Jesus is living and here working through the living. I never forget what he did for me but on the other hand, I don't put pictures of my partner in hospital on every anniversary card either.

For me its like, Cruixification was the key that opened the door to a new universe of Jesus walking and working amoung us - do we fixate on the key or explore the universe?

 

[Duggie]

I once heard a preacher say that wearing the cross was like wearing a tool of execution around your neck. Should we start wearing an electric chair pendant or a guillotine also?

I think he's missing the point. The fact that some choose to wear the crucifix is presumably because they remember what Christ did on that cross and wear it as some form of remembrance. I'm not sure, but it doesn't bother me or in any way offend me.

 

[Raithlin]

I once heard a preacher say that wearing the cross was like wearing a tool of execution around your neck. Should we start wearing an electric chair pendant or a guillotine also?

I think he's missing the point. The fact that some choose to wear the crucifix is presumably because they remember what Christ did on that cross and wear it as some form of remembrance. I'm not sure, but it doesn't bother me or in any way offend me.

I have to agree. The cross was the worst symbol in the world, but Jesus took it and made it the most wonderful symbol by dying for us on one!

How can you miss that symbolism? I wear a cross around my neck to let others know what I stand for - after all, it is the most recognisable symbol ever... what would that preacher have me wear? A dove means nothing... and a bible would seem like a normal book when sized so it can fit on a chain without breaking off...

I like my cross. It reminds me of what Jesus did for me. As a side point, the cross I wear does not have Jesus hanging on it. That is a Catholic symbol. My Jesus is not there any more. He's at the right hand of the Father, and in my heart.

 

[troymartin]

I personally think there is a lot more to the cross than people realise.

The cross does not symbolise Christ's weakest moment, but his most powerfull.
Jesus is a god of love and at that moment when the nails were being driven into his skin he still felt nothing but love for his executioner's.
He was completely immersed in evil with all of its attraction and temptations but he did not succumb to it, he triumphed over it.

If jesus had not died then he would not have triumphed over death, so his death was another victory. And by proving that he can conquer death he has shown that he can do that for us too.

The cross also means that when we pray to jesus, we can be sure that he understands what pain feels like, he can fully symphathise and recognise your need.
Whenever I feel like God isn't listening to my prayers or that he is angry with me, I can look at the cross and remind myself that there is no-one that loves me more.

The cross and Jesus's life is also an insight into God's character. Humble, meek, loving, vulnerable but all powerfull and victorious as well.

The only way to destroy evil is too absorb it. The cross Symbolises how much destruction jesus could absorb not how much he could dish out.
The cross is a symbol of victory and a morbid reminder of what our beloved jesus had to go through. No other symbol has as much meaning to its followers as the cross does.
You cannot tell someone how much you love them, you have to show them and for me the cross symbolises just how special and awesome our creator is that he loves us so much. The cross shows another 2 things........

1) How powerfull satan and sin has become in the world by the extent to which God had to go to to overcome it.
2) How much God hates sin by the extent he went to to overcome and destroy it.

Satan cannot fight or destroy God.
But he can destroy something God loves very much, Humans.
Sin requires sacrifice to be forgiven, something has to counteract it.
On the cross Jesus had apon his shoulders all the past, present and future sins of the world and secured for those sinners who love him a future with him in eternity.

So it is a morbid reminder of the pain our beloved creator felt, but the victory it achieved is so great that Christians should get very exited about it, it is enough encouragement for me to keep praying for a lifetime.

 

[mpshiel]

I wear a cross around my neck to let others know what I stand for - after all, it is the most recognisable symbol ever...

This amoung other reasons is why I would not wear a cross. First, I'm not a goth chick so no need for crosses there. But seriously, a lot of the people I associate with would find my wearing a cross to be threatening or offensive. A swastika is the sign for good luck, but due to one group using it, it's not something you wear around Jews. In the same way, like it or not, there are people who have been traumatized, hurt, and oppressed by Christians - to wear a cross around them would be insensitive as the point of Christianity is to make people feel loved, not scared (at least in the version I believe). Those that know me, know what I believe in. I can understand it being used as a symbol of identification of group identity - like the first century church might have done - but as Christians form the majority in most western countries, I don't know if that is necessary anymore.

 

[troymartin]

The cross has been corrupted by society.

Gangsters, pop stars, rappers, and loads of other people wear the cross without being christians and without believing in the christ.
The cross is now used as a symbol of evil instead of good. Jesus used the cross to show us how much he loved us, and we have used it as a means to show how much we don't love others. Again this shows how corrupted we are by evil. That aside the cross is still a very precious symbol to me because I do not wish to forget the sacrifice that was made for my salvation.

Jesus himself told us to remeber his sacrifice so that we would not forget what he went through. Like it or not, no matter how far we go in corrupting the cross and polluting the central hope and love of christianity, the crucifiction will stand as the greatest love shown and the greatest victory acheived in the history of the world.

But we are not christians by wearing the cross, we are christians in our obedience and love for God and by our love for our brothers and sisters.

I would not say that christians are in the majority. I would say that radical disciples of Jesus are in the absolute minority. I myself cannot claim to be one. I wish I could say that I was. Atheism and new age spiritual nonsense hold a far greater following than does the creator. Christianity has been diluted by "luke warm" people like myself who believe in him but fail to go to any great extent to obey him.People like me he said would be spat out. I just hope that my love for him and his grace will somewhat justify me in the absense of fruit.
Choosing not to wear a cross because of what people think of it is self concious and irrelevant. It is what the cross means to the wearer that is important.

That aside, Jesus's disciples never wore any jewellery to outwardly show their identity.
So we shouldn't need to either but it all comes down to personal choice I guess.

 

[Loki]

I don't know of many who would be traumatized by seeing someone wearing a cross. Sneer, perhaps, but that's about it. (I know some bitter atheists). The crucifix is supposed to represent that one moment where he died, and .... whatever that means (I'm not quite clear yet). To me, it's more meaningful than the "empty cross," because said cross often becomes just an abstract or artsy symbol. It's probably because of my catholic background, but to me, a plain cross is like mass without communion; it's missing the punchline.

 

[mpshiel]

I don't know of many who would be traumatized by seeing someone wearing a cross.

I appreciate that, however, I do. Lets say for example that your upbringing was one where God was associated with fear and punishment, strictness and self loathing. That God was always angry with you and that those who wore his symbol were given the power to verbally or emotionally hurt you. (for example one friend I have used to be a "good girl" - experimented, was thrown out of the church and then at the churches suggestion - she scrapped out a living on the street for a while before getting double pnemonia and a respitory ailment and was sent to a hospital, returning home in a wheelchair and with oxygen attached - her parents took her back to church where the first person walked up to her and said, "you see what happens when you disobey God.") What do you likely think these peoples feeling are when they see someone wearing a cross? Does that cross mean the person is likely to abuse or hurt them - no. But they don't know that, or even if they "know" it - it can still bring up strong feelings. I have no desire to wear a cross but due to those I associate with, I don't wear any christian ornament - and depending who I speak to I don't use words like "church" or "sin".

Obviously this is not the case for the majority of Christians. And I am not saying you have to remove your ornaments but maybe you should know that many of the people I know, when they see the symbol of the fish on a car, feel like putting the foot down and ramming it. It is not that they hate God, it is just that they have a strong abuse reaction from previous experiences.

 

[The_White]

Actually I wear a shield with a cross on it and the following on the back

Be strong and courageous. Do not be teriffied; do not be discouraged, for the Lord your God will be with you wherever you go.
Joshua 1:9b

That way anyone who wants to know can ask and anyone who would be offended can ignore it. I actually know a number of people who are no longer friends with me becasue they thought that I was trying to shove my faith down their throat so I can see how someone could be offended by somone wearing a cross.

mpshiel that example is really awful. I can see how someone wearing a cross would seriously, at the best, alienate them or offend. That type of church does not seem Christian at all, that is much more of a Jewish view (and even there I am not so sure if they would take it that far these days)

many of the people I know, when they see the symbol of the fish on a car, feel like putting the foot down and ramming it.

That always amuses me, especially in light of the epesode of Futurama where Bender(the alchoholic, Chain smoking, kleptomanic robot for those of you who don't know) gets 'religion' and welds a fish to the back of a spaceship with the comment "There, THAT should convert a few tail gaters". Makes me wonder how many people have that view?

 

[CaDan]

Using Jesus's emancipated corpse bound to cross seems a little off to me. Yes, he did suffer and die upon it for us, but focusing on that's like ending the LotR Return of the King with Golum grabbing the ring, cut to Saurons eye glowing malevolently, roll the credits, The End. It's depressing!

There's more to the story. Yes Jesus was on the cross, but HE'S NOT THERE ANYMORE! He rose! That's the happy ending. He triumphed over death, sin and the grave that we could be free. It's a happy ending! Why look to the most bleak and hopeless aspect and use that as your constant reminder. It's no wonder so many catholics seem melancholy.
What's with that? Am I missing something with the symbolism on this one? It's been bugging me for months.

The Empty Tomb just doesn't make a nice graphic.

Maybe that's the point of the Empty Tomb.

 

[Greatcloak]

The cross has been corrupted by society.

...That aside the cross is still a very precious symbol to me because I do not wish to forget the sacrifice that was made for my salvation.
...
But we are not christians by wearing the cross, we are christians in our obedience and love for God and by our love for our brothers and sisters.
...
That aside, Jesus's disciples never wore any jewellery to outwardly show their identity.
So we shouldn't need to either but it all comes down to personal choice I guess.

It is what it means to you, where you want to put your focus. If the crucifix means good to you, or the cross, or the fish. Jesus disciples didn't have any form of outward mark, but an outward change in their demeanor. Acts4:13 Peter and John preach before the courts, and immediately the men can see that they had been with Jesus. Christian in root means: to be Christ-like in manner, to follow the ways of the Christ. Shouldn't that be our mark? Quite a few people mentioned using the symbol as a reminder, but I find it a lot more effective to just talk to Him when I'm confused. What I turn to look at when I'm feeling shaken or down, is the Word and prayer, not the cross. I find that praying shows a lot more people where I stand than a small necklace ever could, and it shows a lifestyle, not a possibly hollow religious symbol.

Troy, you made a some of really good comments. I completely agree that the cross was not a moment of weakness, but a moment of strength, and apologized if I infered differently. I think the cross is the low point emotionally. The cross has been corrupted and watered down, but purely as a symbol its meaning would lie in the heart of the wearer. You said you're not a radical disciple, but want to be one. What's holding you back? I wouldn't say I'm one either, though I've had people tell me I am. However, I know I'm going to be, and I know I'm getting there. Should we need symbols, that so many peope wear as little more than art, or a political pin, or should who and what we are show clear to world, through His grace and rightiousness flowing through us?

 

[meebs]

ive seen on cars the symbol of the fish - which is better, cos it reminds me of the feeding of the 5000, which symolizes what the kingdom of heaven is like (taking what little you have and multiplying it so much that it becomes abundant then sharing it among others)

Protestants have the empty cross - that jesus is not on it symbolises that that he was ressurected, or that we can put our sins or ourselves on the cross.

(i prefer the fish)

 

[kimber1]

i don't see a problem with either one i can remember in my old Baptist church my pastor making a comment of how wrong it was to wear one with Jesus on it and being sort of offended that he would say something like that from the pulpit. to me, it's your own choice.
i never take mine off and it has Jesus on it

 

[Cordelia]

The cross was the worst symbol in the world, but Jesus took it and made it the most wonderful symbol by dying for us on one!

That's how I think of it, too. It is depressing to think of the mode of Christ's death that it represents, but I like to see it as the moment of His triumph, and for us, too Plus, I wear my cross as a way of proclaiming my belief without being vulgar. Not that many people seem to get the point - so many non-Christians wear cross jewellery too.

 

[Treasure the Questions]

Being a Prostestant by upringing (even if my dad is an atheistic/agnostic Puritan ) I wouldn't wear a crucifix, but I have a selection of crosses to wear. Being a bit of a heretic Baptist I do have a crucifix on the wall by my bed. It's a reminder, as is the small icon of Jesus praying.

Karin

 

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

The problem with the fish is it's so often on the back of cars being driven really badly.

 

[Loki]

The problem with the fish is it's so often on the back of cars being driven really badly.

ROFL!

 

[Im_A]

i myself just believe that basically it is up to you what you feel about the symbols within Christianity. i myself see nothing wrong with cross with or without Christ on it. if anyone would like to make a miniture of a grave site with a stone off to the side, go for it. if someone likes the fish, go for it. i'm cool with the icthus fish. the only bumper stickers that really irritate me is the one eating the word Darwin. that just seems rather childish to me. but the icthus fish has better meaning then the propaganda Christians have turned it into, same thing with the way rappers and ozzy have turned the cross for their own glorification. so that's why i see nothing wrong with the symbols of Christianity. people have different views of what it seems to be them personally and others feel differently. nothing wrong with either of them.