What's with all the 'racist uncles'?

[OldWiseGuy]

Now there's an interesting thought... how then do we raise the standards of education?

Just...raise them.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Just...raise them.

Yes, you said that; that's a goal, not a plan.

What's your plan?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Yes, you said that; that's a goal, not a plan.

What's your plan?

That's for the educators to figure out. But a good place to start would be to stop lying to the kids regarding their abilities and potential. Include truth with every subject as well. Tell the kids what they will face regardless of any success they might have in high school. Emphasize cooperation between everyone instead of competition. Develop student mentors for those who have a 'problem' with adult teaching and supervision, and for those who have problems with a different ethicity. Establish dress and grooming codes when in school. And of course enforce strict codes of conduct. Uniformity will remove most of the distractions to learning.

Above all stop preparing kids to live on "Sesame Street", but prepare them to survive in the real world.

 

[TLK Valentine]

That's for the educators to figure out.

Well, the educators say that the first step is that the schools that primarily serve the black communities are going to need the same funding and resources as the schools which serve the white communities... currently, they're not getting it. That's for the politicians to figure out.

Now, if this happens (and I mean across the board, from pre-k to high school), then you'll see those standards go up... but it'll take decades; education is a long term investment.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Well, the educators say that the first step is that the schools that primarily serve the black communities are going to need the same funding and resources as the schools which serve the white communities... currently, they're not getting it. That's for the politicians to figure out.

Now, if this happens (and I mean across the board, from pre-k to high school), then you'll see those standards go up... but it'll take decades; education is a long term investment.

My suggestions don't require more funding, although that would certainly help (revisit my post).

 

[TLK Valentine]

My suggestions don't require more funding, although that would certainly help (revisit my post).

Ah. I see your additions.

But a good place to start would be to stop lying to the kids regarding their abilities and potential.

Not everyone gets to be an astronaut when they grow up. Agreed. But that's more a problem with the parents who simply refuse to believe their little Timmy isn't an A student.

Include truth with every subject as well.

You'd be surprised how many people call that "indoctrination" -- especially in topics such as history and social studies, when our own nation hasn't always acted nobly.

Tell the kids what they will face regardless of any success they might have in high school.

And while you're at it, tell the parents.

Emphasize cooperation between everyone instead of competition.

Our society doesn't encourage cooperation; why should our schools? We need to prepare them for the real world, do we not?

Develop student mentors for those who have a 'problem' with adult teaching and supervision, and for those who have problems with a different ethicity.

good ideas.

Establish dress and grooming codes when in school.

And who decides those codes?

And of course enforce strict codes of conduct.

Agreed.

Uniformity will remove most of the distractions to learning.

To a point -- but we can't roll out identical students on an assembly line. Go overboard on the conformity and it will backfire.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

I think you're missing the point of what he's saying. Being friends with a person of another race does not mean you're not racist. Another example that might be easier, marrying a woman does not mean you're not sexist. You can still do and support things that marginalizes, oppresses and discriminates against women yet still say you love your wife, mother, daughter, etc.

Well said.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Ah. I see your additions.



Not everyone gets to be an astronaut when they grow up. Agreed. But that's more a problem with the parents who simply refuse to believe their little Timmy isn't an A student.



You'd be surprised how many people call that "indoctrination" -- especially in topics such as history and social studies, when our own nation hasn't always acted nobly.



And while you're at it, tell the parents.



Our society doesn't encourage cooperation; why should our schools? We need to prepare them for the real world, do we not?



good ideas.



And who decides those codes?



Agreed.



To a point -- but we can't roll out identical students on an assembly line. Go overboard on the conformity and it will backfire.

In other words, it's hopeless.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

But isn't it a fact? Don't you believe in genetically influenced behavior?

I know your question wasn't directed toward me but I wanted to say that I do believe in genetically influenced behavior. I have studied it on a personal level for many years and I have also been in professional care for it as well. I'm not going to go into further detail about my personal experiences with it in this thread but I do believe in genetically influenced behavior. I know it is a reality.

 

[iluvatar5150]

A few do have 'thing' with their hair and other 'dress' that can get them banned. Blacks are famous for mocking the traditions of white culture as well, so that must be considered. But that's up to individual school districts.

What are you talking about?

Here's what I'm talking about:
Brown v. Board of Education - Wikipedia
Segregation academy - Wikipedia
Runyon v. McCrary - Wikipedia

 

[Kaon]

In other words, it's hopeless.

If we look at it from the surface, it is hopeless. But, as suggested, there is a social and economic aspect to why education fails in certain area.

There is no way funding can be removed from the picture if the plan is to raise education standards. Morale alone (which requires the money reflected in the school so that the students feel they are worth something) will boost education. Everyone is a genius, but perhaps not everyone is a genius in landscaping, mathematics, or medicine. But, most of what is preventing the individual from realizing his or her potential is related to the socioeconomic demerits within the community and politics.

If every student received the same amount of resources at school to perform well at school, then that would be a tremendous beginning. But, that requires massive amounts of funding; zoning takes care of the uneven distribution of funding. If we are talking about "inner city" schools as a euphemism for "brown and black schools," then there has been historical proof to show how money has been moved out of zones to denature the quality of education - simply through prejudicial actions. We don't have to go there, but it would also be impossible to have progress in education without recognizing it.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

If we look at it from the surface, it is hopeless. But, as suggested, there is a social and economic aspect to why education fails in certain area.

There is no way funding can be removed from the picture if the plan is to raise education standards. Morale alone (which requires the money reflected in the school so that the students feel they are worth something) will boost education. Everyone is a genius, but perhaps not everyone is a genius in landscaping, mathematics, or medicine. But, most of what is preventing the individual from realizing his or her potential is related to the socioeconomic demerits within the community and politics.

If every student received the same amount of resources at school to perform well at school, then that would be a tremendous beginning. But, that requires massive amounts of funding; zoning takes care of the uneven distribution of funding. If we are talking about "inner city" schools as a euphemism for "brown and black schools," then there has been historical proof to show how money has been moved out of zones to denature the quality of education - simply through prejudicial actions. We don't have to go there, but it would also be impossible to have progress in education without recognizing it.

Given all of this I'd say it is hopeless. Best to turn our good efforts towards other problems where progress can be made. That's called pragmatism; something our educational system is totally unaware of.

 

[TLK Valentine]

In other words, it's hopeless.

No, in other (accurate) words, your ideas have merit, but must be implemented carefully.

 

[CitizenD]

"In surveys, 31 percent of white millennials believe black people are lazier than whites, as opposed to 35 percent of white baby boomers."

I wonder what they base these opinions on?

I wonder?

"In surveys, 31 percent of white millennials believe black people are lazier than whites, as opposed to 35 percent of white baby boomers."

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

If every student received the same amount of resources at school to perform well at school, then that would be a tremendous beginning. But, that requires massive amounts of funding; zoning takes care of the uneven distribution of funding. If we are talking about "inner city" schools as a euphemism for "brown and black schools," then there has been historical proof to show how money has been moved out of zones to denature the quality of education - simply through prejudicial actions. We don't have to go there, but it would also be impossible to have progress in education without recognizing it.

The elephant in the room is surely the way US schools are funded by district rather than by state or at a federal level. That automatically means poor neighbourhoods will have poor schools. You'll never solve the problem while a system like that remains in place.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The elephant in the room is surely the way US schools are funded by district rather than by state or at a federal level. That automatically means poor neighbourhoods will have poor schools. You'll never solve the problem while a system like that remains in place.

What is the 'the problem'? I don't believe it has been clearly defined.

 

[Kaon]

What is the 'the problem'? I don't believe it has been clearly defined.

Flight is one of the main problems.

That is based on overall net worth of each demographic.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Flight is one of the main problems.

That is based on overall net worth of each demographic.

I think the biggest problem is that they aren't being taught what is needed to raise themselves out of poverty. For example, they should be taught that while middle class white kids can afford to get sick or have poor dental hygiene they cannot (instruction on diet and dental hygiene follows including brushing and flossing before classes begin each day).

Actually I was looking for justification for raising the grades of those districts when we are bringing in millions of immigrants that have virtually no useful education whatsoever. It seems like a very costly less-than-zero sum game.

Perhaps education should be tailored to the resources of those districts. One of the facts of life is,

If you can't afford it, you can't have it.

 

[Kaon]

I think the biggest problem is that they aren't being taught what is needed to raise themselves out of poverty.

You can't "raise yourself" by your own bootstraps, and you cant do it when your hands are tied. Given how deep the problem runs, it is amazing that many people in poverty actually get out at all. The problem is ingrained in the system that feeds it. As said, flight is just one example of passive programs that create a chain-reaction leading to an implosion of the quality of education for some demographics.

Until the problem is confronted, addressed and exchanged for a solution, it will always be there. And, the thing is that it benefits a large(r) group of people, so the "problem" itself usually goes unnoticed.

For example, they should be taught that while middle class white kids can afford to get sick or have poor dental hygiene they cannot (instruction on diet and dental hygiene follows including brushing and flossing before classes begin each day).

?

Actually I was looking for justification for raising the grades of those districts when we are bringing in millions of immigrants that have virtually no useful education whatsoever. It seems like a very costly less-than-zero sum game.

Perhaps education should be tailored to the resources of those districts. One of the facts of life is,

If you can't afford it, you can't have it.

Your last sentence is, unfortunately, a "proverb" of the problem. The American economic system isn't fair for anyone, so what one can afford is based on one's socioeconomic background and current placement. This, again, is a fundamental part of the problem.

The problem is 1) ignorance of the problem, and 2) a cowardice to address and tackle the problem.

The problem is very clear - the connotation of ignorance being that people make a choice to ignore something when they have the means and opportunity to learn/find out about it.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You can't "raise yourself" by your own bootstraps, and you cant do it when your hands are tied. Given how deep the problem runs, it is amazing that many people in poverty actually get out at all. The problem is ingrained in the system that feeds it. As said, flight is just one example of passive programs that create a chain-reaction leading to an implosion of the quality of education for some demographics.

Until the problem is confronted, addressed and exchanged for a solution, it will always be there. And, the thing is that it benefits a large(r) group of people, so the "problem" itself usually goes unnoticed.



?



Your last sentence is, unfortunately, a "proverb" of the problem. The American economic system isn't fair for anyone, so what one can afford is based on one's socioeconomic background and current placement. This, again, is a fundamental part of the problem.

The problem is 1) ignorance of the problem, and 2) a cowardice to address and tackle the problem.

The problem is very clear - the connotation of ignorance being that people make a choice to ignore something when they have the means and opportunity to learn/find out about it.

You can't "raise yourself" by your own bootstraps, and you cant do it when your hands are tied. Given how deep the problem runs, it is amazing that many people in poverty actually get out at all. The problem is ingrained in the system that feeds it. As said, flight is just one example of passive programs that create a chain-reaction leading to an implosion of the quality of education for some demographics.

Until the problem is confronted, addressed and exchanged for a solution, it will always be there. And, the thing is that it benefits a large(r) group of people, so the "problem" itself usually goes unnoticed.



?



Your last sentence is, unfortunately, a "proverb" of the problem. The American economic system isn't fair for anyone, so what one can afford is based on one's socioeconomic background and current placement. This, again, is a fundamental part of the problem.

The problem is 1) ignorance of the problem, and 2) a cowardice to address and tackle the problem.

The problem is very clear - the connotation of ignorance being that people make a choice to ignore something when they have the means and opportunity to learn/find out about it.

What would be your time frame for getting any individual out of poverty?