What's up with the Mormons?

[LifeToTheFullest!]

Your point?

My point is that before someone trys to condemn another religious writing, they should be aware of their own. To say that the Bible is perfect, and your BOM is not can't be adequately defended. I was simply pointing out apparent contradictions in the Bible. The poster to whom this was directed at sometimes gets a little zealous and carried away. That's all.

 

[Fit4Christ]

How do you explain discrepencies found in the Bible?

1. Does God incite David to conduct the census of his people (2 Samuel 4:1), or does Satan (1 Chronicles 21:1)?
2. 2 Samuel 24:9 gives the total population for Israel as 800,000, whereas 1 Chronicles 21:5 says it was 1,100,000.
3. 2 Samuel 24:9 gives the round figure Of 500,000 fighting men in Judah, which was 30,000 more than the corresponding item in 1 Chronicles 21:5.
4. 2 Samuel 24:13 mentions that there will be seven years of famine whereas 1 Chronicles 21:12 mentions only three.
5. Was Ahaziah 22 (2 Kings 8:26) or 42 (2 Chronicles 22:2) when he began to rule over Jerusalem?
6. Was Jehoiachin 18 years old (2 Kings 24:8) or 8 years old (2 Chronicles 36:9) when he became king of Jerusalem?



Now, what was that verse about the log in your eye before removing that splinter from your brothers?

Of course, none of these "discrepancies" affect God's plan of salvation, do they? And, with a little study and insight into the texts themselves, you can find reasonable explanations.

 

[Rescued One]

My point is that before someone trys to condemn another religious writing, they should be aware of their own. To say that the Bible is perfect, and your BOM is not can't be adequately defended. I was simply pointing out apparent contradictions in the Bible. The poster to whom this was directed at sometimes gets a little zealous and carried away. That's all.

Fit4Christ answered before I got online. His answer is what I was going to say. Have you ever been LDS? I was for a good many years. Some people do get zealous, LDS and evangelicals alike. It isn't always wrong.

Have you ever been LDS? I was for a good many years. The Book of Mormon isn't the only problem with the religion. They have an opportunity to debate with us in this forum. Not all LDS and not all evangelicals or Catholics want to debate.

 

[stinkyjoe]

Thanks for the replies, everyone... I was away for a few days, and it took me a couple of hours to read it all. I guess I really stirred up a debate. I really am only looking for the truth. I would like to make a couple of comments.

First, dhiannian states in one of his posts (#65) that there is no contradiction in the Bible. Some of the last posts showed some contradictions, to which someone answered that they did not affect our salvation. Well, here is a contradiction that has always bothered me. Can anyone give me some light on this subject?

All Christian religions teach that Christ is God. However...

John 4:24 says, "God is a SPIRIT."

and Luke 24:39 says, "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is myself: handle me, and see; for a SPIRIT hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

Now, if God is a spirit and Christ is not, then what is Christ? I would say this is a significant contradiction.

Dmckay: Thank you for the list of questions. I will look up some Mormon missionaries and run them by them. However, before I do that, I would like to know why those questions are significant. How do they supposedly disprove the mormons? Maybe you could send me a personal message and help me out with that a little, so I'll know what to look for.

Casiopeia: Thanks for your opinions. I will talk to some mormons about their doctrines and see if I can understand them better. I hope others in this forum will help me to understand them by giving me the other side of the story. I will then make up my own mind on them by comparing the evidence for both sides. By the way, you seem to be one of the most open-minded and unbiased people in this forum. I'm sorry people treated you so badly for what you wrote.

I can't answer all of the messages, as there are well over 200, but I want to thank all of you for your comments. I would just like to say that I am really seeking for truth here, and would appreciate it if instead of sarcasm and hateful remarks, you could just stick to helping me understand the truth.

Joe

 

[Rescued One]

Casiopeia: Thanks for your opinions. I will talk to some mormons about their doctrines and see if I can understand them better. I hope others in this forum will help me to understand them by giving me the other side of the story. I will then make up my own mind on them by comparing the evidence for both sides. By the way, you seem to be one of the most open-minded and unbiased people in this forum. I'm sorry people treated you so badly for what you wrote.

I'm not sure who you think treated Casiopeia badly. However, she came to an Unorthodox Theology forum that was set up for the purpose of debate with those who hold unorthodox views. Instead of debating theology, she criticized people who don't hold her views. Are we to blame for her attacks?

 

[Fit4Christ]

Thanks for the replies, everyone... I was away for a few days, and it took me a couple of hours to read it all. I guess I really stirred up a debate. I really am only looking for the truth. I would like to make a couple of comments.

First, dhiannian states in one of his posts (#65) that there is no contradiction in the Bible. Some of the last posts showed some contradictions, to which someone answered that they did not affect our salvation. Well, here is a contradiction that has always bothered me. Can anyone give me some light on this subject?

All Christian religions teach that Christ is God. However...

John 4:24 says, "God is a SPIRIT."

and Luke 24:39 says, "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is myself: handle me, and see; for a SPIRIT hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

Now, if God is a spirit and Christ is not, then what is Christ? I would say this is a significant contradiction.

...
Joe

Joe,

I hope that I can explain this adequately for you. God is a spirit, that is undoubtedly true. Jesus Christ is equal to God, equally true. However, Christ had to come to earth in human form to fulfill God's plan of salvation. The reference you provided in Luke 24:39 is providing evidence that Christ died and overcame death (sin) through the resurrection of his physical earthly body, just as he told his disciples he would do. If he had risen in a spirit form, where the apostles could not touch or feel his wounds, how believeable would that have been for them? And the point of overcoming death would be lost.

Just my humble opinion, though.

 

[stinkyjoe]

I'm not sure who you think treated Casiopeia badly. However, she came to an Unorthodox Theology forum that was set up for the purpose of debate with those who hold unorthodox views. Instead of debating theology, she criticized people who don't hold her views. Are we to blame for her attacks?

You, for one, were pretty sarcastic and condescending. I'm not interested in fights or heated debates. I have nothing against you or anyone else in this forum. I 'm just looking for the truth. How about if you just explain doctrine to me ?

 

[Rescued One]

Double post.

 

[stinkyjoe]

Joe,

I hope that I can explain this adequately for you. God is a spirit, that is undoubtedly true. Jesus Christ is equal to God, equally true. However, Christ had to come to earth in human form to fulfill God's plan of salvation. The reference you provided in Luke 24:39 is providing evidence that Christ died and overcame death (sin) through the resurrection of his physical earthly body, just as he told his disciples he would do. If he had risen in a spirit form, where the apostles could not touch or feel his wounds, how believeable would that have been for them? And the point of overcoming death would be lost.

Just my humble opinion, though.

OK, I've heard that before, but it still doesn't sit quite right with me. It seems it would be a little deceiving to take on another form just to convince his disciples. I don't think Christ would do that. I think he would require them to have faith in his triumph over death. To take on a physical form just to convince his followers seems a little dishonest.

And now that brings me to another dilemna... Does Christ have a body today, or is he just a Spirit. If He is just a spirit, why did he resurrect?

I hope you can see why this confuses me. What do you think?

Joe

 

[Rescued One]

You, for one, were pretty sarcastic and condescending. I'm not interested in fights or heated debates. I have nothing against you or anyone else in this forum. I 'm just looking for the truth. How about if you just explain doctrine to me ?

I'm sorry, Cassiopeia, for whichever post I wrote that was condescending.
If someone will point me to it, I'll try to correct it.

Joe, I commend you for wanting truth!


Proverbs 3
5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.


John 14
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

 

[Tawhano]

stinkyjoe said:
OK, I've heard that before, but it still doesn't sit quite right with me. It seems it would be a little deceiving to take on another form just to convince his disciples.

Where did you get the idea that God was deceiving anyone to convince them? He came in the flesh to be offered up as a sacrifice for our sins, just like they did in the temple with bulls and such. How could God offer up a spiritual body to be killed? He could not; therefore He came in the flesh to do that. How could God being God become a man? He did so by becoming Christ in the flesh. Where does the deceiving come into play?

 

[Tawhano]

double post

 

[Onesiphorus]

Now, if God is a spirit and Christ is not, then what is Christ? I would say this is a significant contradiction.

Christ may not have been spirit (only), but He certainly had spirit within Himself. When you die what goes to heaven? Is it your body or your soul? Why can the spirit of Christ not be like our souls? It is present in our bodies.

 

[Fit4Christ]

OK, I've heard that before, but it still doesn't sit quite right with me. It seems it would be a little deceiving to take on another form just to convince his disciples. I don't think Christ would do that. I think he would require them to have faith in his triumph over death. To take on a physical form just to convince his followers seems a little dishonest.

It's not a deception. It's the fulfillment of a promise. See Luke 18:31-34 (emphasis mine).

" 31Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, “We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled. 32He will be handed over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him, spit on him, flog him and kill him. 33On the third day he will rise again.”
34The disciples did not understand any of this. Its meaning was hidden from them, and they did not know what he was talking about. "

It was necessary for Jesus to have his physical body to fulfill "on the third day he will rise again". In v. 34, the disciples clearly did not understand the meaning of what Jesus was telling them. That's why he appeared in his physical form. Jesus taught the disciples in ways they could understand; hence the many parables. This is one way to teach so they understand.

And now that brings me to another dilemna... Does Christ have a body today, or is he just a Spirit. If He is just a spirit, why did he resurrect?

No, Christ does not have a physical body as we know it today. After his ascention, he was somehow tranformed. No one knows exactly how this can be done; only that it was done, and will be done when the saints are resurrected as well. Anyone who claims to know what the body of Christ looks like today is probably pulling doctrine out of a dark place (read where the sun don't shine ).

Why? To prove His divineness and the overcoming of death (sin) to us measly humans who need such proof to believe. His blood on the cross was shed for our sins. His resurrection was to show that, if we believe in him, we, too, shall overcome death and be resurrected into God's Kingdom.

I hope you can see why this confuses me. What do you think?

Joe

I think you need more prayer and Bible study. I pray that God will provide you with the discernment and wisdom to need to understand.

 

[Rescued One]

....All Christian religions teach that Christ is God. However...

John 4:24 says, "God is a SPIRIT."

and Luke 24:39 says, "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is myself: handle me, and see; for a SPIRIT hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

Now, if God is a spirit and Christ is not, then what is Christ? I would say this is a significant contradiction.....

Joe

I know, I know...it's so he can make more spirit babies in his celestial kingdom!

Yours is a popular question among LDS.

But why does Christ get to make those babies and the Holy Ghost doesn't even get a body?

 

[Zippythepinhead]

Prove it

Are we engaging in the age old ritual of sign seeking?

 

[Zippythepinhead]

Thanks for the replies, everyone... I was away for a few days, and it took me a couple of hours to read it all. I guess I really stirred up a debate. I really am only looking for the truth. I would like to make a couple of comments.

First, dhiannian states in one of his posts (#65) that there is no contradiction in the Bible. Some of the last posts showed some contradictions, to which someone answered that they did not affect our salvation. Well, here is a contradiction that has always bothered me. Can anyone give me some light on this subject?

All Christian religions teach that Christ is God. However...

John 4:24 says, "God is a SPIRIT."

and Luke 24:39 says, "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is myself: handle me, and see; for a SPIRIT hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

Now, if God is a spirit and Christ is not, then what is Christ? I would say this is a significant contradiction.

Dmckay: Thank you for the list of questions. I will look up some Mormon missionaries and run them by them. However, before I do that, I would like to know why those questions are significant. How do they supposedly disprove the mormons? Maybe you could send me a personal message and help me out with that a little, so I'll know what to look for.

Casiopeia: Thanks for your opinions. I will talk to some mormons about their doctrines and see if I can understand them better. I hope others in this forum will help me to understand them by giving me the other side of the story. I will then make up my own mind on them by comparing the evidence for both sides. By the way, you seem to be one of the most open-minded and unbiased people in this forum. I'm sorry people treated you so badly for what you wrote.

I can't answer all of the messages, as there are well over 200, but I want to thank all of you for your comments. I would just like to say that I am really seeking for truth here, and would appreciate it if instead of sarcasm and hateful remarks, you could just stick to helping me understand the truth.

Joe

Stinky(nice name). Anyway, examine the evidence for yourself and then do what you feel is right. I would suggest prayer is a good start. Whatever you decide to do with your religious pursuits, be happy in them. You are a rare breed amongst the posters on the forum here.

Godspeed my son!

 

[gort]

Are we engaging in the age old ritual of sign seeking?

Does that include a burning bosom?

 

[Zippythepinhead]

Does that include a burning bosom?

No, actually I am thinking about burning...well you fill in the blank

 

[Zippythepinhead]

I know, I know...it's so he can make more spirit babies in his celestial kingdom!

Yours is a popular question among LDS.

But why does Christ get to make those babies and the Holy Ghost doesn't even get a body?

Please don't lose sleep over these points. If you do may God have mercy on your soul. You'll need it