Whats the problem with whaling?

[ChristOurCaptain]

A couple of differences:
1. Whale meat is not popular in Japan.
2. Whaling in Japan is not a religious rite.
3. I didn't criticize the claims of tradition, I asked why this tradition was important. The reason I used quotes around tradition was that I had thought that whaling was a modern phenomenon in Japan, and after some research I have found that it dates back to a pretty early time in Japanese history. But once again, why is this tradition important? AkiraYamato has only claimed that the tradition is needed just in case Japan needs to rely on whale meat for sustenance. I think this is a rather weak argument personally, but so it goes.

So, what makes your tradition more legitimate than his? The fact that it's islamic?

 

[Skaloop]

Whales are made out of meat, so why not eat them?

So are you. You'd be cool with being eaten?

 

[abdAlSalam]

So, what makes your tradition more legitimate than his? The fact that it's islamic?

No, the fact that it is centered on religion and has great significance in showing faith. The fact that the animals that are sacrificed are parceled out to the needy, so that they may eat and share prosperity with those more fortunate. The fact that the animals sacrificed are domestic animals.

 

[Skaloop]

Another thing regarding the appeal to "tradition". Eating whale meat may very well be tradition, but I doubt that that tradition involved the type of methods that are in use today. If people want to stick to tradition and use hand-thrown harpoons, fine. But that's not what's happening.

 

[ChristOurCaptain]

Another thing regarding the appeal to "tradition". Eating whale meat may very well be tradition, but I doubt that that tradition involved the type of methods that are in use today. If people want to stick to tradition and use hand-thrown harpoons, fine. But that's not what's happening.

Healing people who are sick is also a tradition going back as far as civilization itself.
Are you saying that we should also stick to the same methods there as our earliest ancestors, too, or is this another example of hypocrisy?

 

[AkiraYamato]

Another thing regarding the appeal to "tradition". Eating whale meat may very well be tradition, but I doubt that that tradition involved the type of methods that are in use today. If people want to stick to tradition and use hand-thrown harpoons, fine. But that's not what's happening.

Japan did not use hand harpoons in its tradition. Whales were pushed into narrow bays and then killed with knifes and swords.

 

[ChristOurCaptain]

So are you. You'd be cool with being eaten?

There is an important difference between animal and human. Someone who doesn't get that, isn't fit to walk the streets freely, IMHO. No telling what they might do....

No, the fact that it is centered on religion and has great significance in showing faith. The fact that the animals that are sacrificed are parceled out to the needy, so that they may eat and share prosperity with those more fortunate. The fact that the animals sacrificed are domestic animals.

All of which boils down to the following, when the work-arounds are shoved aside: "Because my tradition says to do it."
Well, japanese tradition says to hunt whales. There's no difference.

 

[ChristOurCaptain]

Japan did not use hand harpoons in its tradition. Whales were pushed into narrow bays and then killed with knifes and swords.

Pretty much the same way it's done on the Faroe Islands...

 

[Skaloop]

Healing people who are sick is also a tradition going back as far as civilization itself.
Are you saying that we should also stick to the same methods there as our earliest ancestors, too, or is this another example of hypocrisy?

Except people aren't using tradition as an excuse to heal people. Also, healing people isn't harmful; killing whales is.

 

[AkiraYamato]

The current method is the best method. The grenade harpoon kills almost instantly and the whale does not suffer.

 

[AkiraYamato]

Except people aren't using tradition as an excuse to heal people. Also, healing people isn't harmful; killing whales is.

Also cultural racism is harmful, isn´t it? I find it amusing, because anti whaling is a western phenomen. So you think we should bow to your culture and wishes? What else should we stop or change?

 

[abdAlSalam]

All of which boils down to the following, when the work-arounds are shoved aside: "Because my tradition says to do it."
Well, japanese tradition says to hunt whales. There's no difference.

I'm starting to think you are deliberately missing the point. Japan's tradition of whaling is not a central part of their culture. Whale meat is not central to Japanese diets. Japan does not gain cultural individuality from its whaling practices.

Qurban is an important practice in Islam. It is a symbolic offering to God to show our faith in Him. It is also a way of tying the Ummah together, by distributing what we have to those who cannot afford their own. The restriction on which animals that can be used are fairly strict, and only domesticated animals can be used. A cow is not as valuable to the environment as a whale.

 

[abdAlSalam]

Also cultural racism is harmful, isn´t it? I find it amusing, because anti whaling is a western phenomen. So you think we should bow to your culture and wishes? What else should we stop or change?

Norway also continues to whale. Norway also faces the same criticisms from Western countries. It isn't about cultural bigotry, it's about the values that many western countries hold with regards to the environment.

 

[AkiraYamato]

I'm starting to think you are deliberately missing the point. Japan's tradition of whaling is not a central part of their culture. Whale meat is not central to Japanese diets. Japan does not gain cultural individuality from its whaling practices.

Qurban is an important practice in Islam. It is a symbolic offering to God to show our faith in Him. It is also a way of tying the Ummah together, by distributing what we have to those who cannot afford their own. The restriction on which animals that can be used are fairly strict, and only domesticated animals can be used. A cow is not as valuable to the environment as a whale.

And you decide whats important for us? We think it is an important point of our culture, thats why we defend it since decades. On the other side we find many aspects of islam disgusting and do not accept it in our country but we do not send out cars into muslim lands ramming local female genital mutilators...

 

[AkiraYamato]

Norway also continues to whale. Norway also faces the same criticisms from Western countries. It isn't about cultural bigotry, it's about the values that many western countries hold with regards to the environment.

Norway does not face half the attacks that we face. thats clear racism.

 

[ChristOurCaptain]

Except people aren't using tradition as an excuse to heal people.

Irrelevant. It's a tradition, and therefore, according to your own reasoning, should only be carried out with the tools available originally.

Also, healing people isn't harmful; killing whales is.

Harmful to the individual whales, maybe.
But unless you're a vegan, this is another example of the pot calling the kettle black. You can be darned sure that the whales Japan (and Norway, and the Faroes..) hunt have had a better life than the chicken who becomes the nuggets you get at McD.

I'm starting to think you are deliberately missing the point.

No, I'm just not letting you get away with moving the goalposts. That's a different story.
A nice little distinction you've made there: It's TOTALLY different because unlike those savage japanese, good muslims only use worthless animals, not cute politically correct animals.
The end result is the same: Animals die, for the sake of "tradition".

Now, I'm not criticizing the islamic practice. I'm criticizing your double-standards.
Also: Who gives you the right to say what is and isn't an important tradition in japanese culture? Do you have any proof that the majority of japanese people does not think it's important?

 

[TheOtherHockeyMom]

Well, I for one am a vegan, and don't support whaling for that reason.

I didn't know that Islam required animal sacrifices. Is that common throughout, or more specific to certain groups?

 

[rturner76]

I don't think anyone would have a problem if there weren't endangered species being hunted.

There seems to be no regulation or catch limits so it would seem the whales may be hunted to extinction. How will that be good for tradition? A good hunter respects his prey and allows it to flourish so the hunt can always be plentiful in the future.

 

[AkiraYamato]

I don't think anyone would have a problem if there weren't endangered species being hunted.

There seems to be no regulation or catch limits so it would seem the whales may be hunted to extinction. How will that be good for tradition? A good hunter respects his prey and allows it to flourish so the hunt can always be plentiful in the future.

the whales we hunt are not endangered. minke whales are not even classified as endangered. We have regulations and catch limits.

 

[ChristOurCaptain]

Well, I for one am a vegan, and don't support whaling for that reason.

And at least that's consistent! What I can't stand is hypocrisy. Someone complaining about the japanese/Norwegians/Faroese hunting whales, or people in Africa killing wild animals that endanger their lives and livelihoods....while happily eating McD-burgers, nuggets, as well as eggs, milk, etc.