What's the difference?

[ARBITER01]

Now you've got me curious. What do you think the nature of the prophesying was referred to in these scriptures from Paul to Timothy? Was it limited to edification, exhortation and comfort or was there something more involved in it?

14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.

18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare; 19 Holding faith, and a good conscience;

Also, does not the scripture say that one can be taught by prophecy as well:

31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

And might not even judgment come by way of prophecy, conviction, and secrets be revealed, as it says here:

24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.
The Holy Bible : King James Version. 1995 . Logos Research Systems, Inc.: Oak Harbor, WA



And the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ, is it not called prophecy, and yet is entirely predictive and not limited to edification, exhortation and comfort:

3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

And John, when the angel gave him the little book, do you think this NT prophet would be by any stretch speaking edification, exhortation or comfort from the little book he ate in this scripture, from which he would be prophesying?

10 And I took the little book out of the angel’s hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter. 11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.​

The Holy Bible : King James Version. 1995 . Logos Research Systems, Inc.: Oak Harbor, WA

Brady, the gift of prophecy is defined as I stated it from Paul in the scriptures, but you can find places where that word "prophecy" or "to prophesy" is used over situations. Does that mean the gift of prophecy was in operation at that point? No it doesn't.

For instance, the passage I quoted tamara,..

18 (ASV) for thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: this hast thou said truly.

Would this be the gift of prophecy in action? No it wouldn't because it is revelation bein shown through The Lord Jesus. This was the word of knowledge in operation because it dealt with facts to the lady, both current and past.

The gift of prophecy deals with inspiration, not revelation.

The catagories of these gifts are particular, and they are also individual. These gifts do not blend. No matter what a person may call something, we must look at the action happening and understand what the gift was that was in operation at that moment.

Examples,..

When someone is healed by the gifts of healings, do we call that prophecy?

When someone calls out a demon from someone and they are delivered by the gift of faith, do we also call this prophecy?

 

[Adammi]

So, would you say that the difference is that an inspirational thought originates within the human mind, but a prophetic words originates with God himself?

 

[ARBITER01]

Nice dance. But I'm not budging. Answer the question.


Let me make it easier for you:

Admit or Deny: "I believe that the OT model of prophecy is no longer in effect for NT believers."

One word answer: either "admit" or "deny".


Your answer will determine whether I provide anything from the OT or not. I'm not going to waste my time if all you're going to do is say "well, that's the OT, it doesn't count."



And, once again, 1 Corinthians 14 doesn't "define" anything. I'll make that easier for you too...follow this link to the definition of "define": http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=define&db=*

And as I said before, you provide me a quote where I have said that on here. I have never said that. I have said that the OT model of "prophet" is no longer applicable anymore, but the gift of prophecy never changed.

 

[mourningdove~]

So, would you say that the difference is that an inspirational thought originates within the human mind, but a prophetic words originates with God himself?

The prophetic word originates in the spirit, by the Holy Spirit.

The prophetic word does NOT originate in the human mind.

 

[ARBITER01]

The prophetic word originates in the spirit, by the Holy Spirit.

The prophetic word does NOT originate in the human mind.

Exactly! The gift of prophecy has to be words inspired by The Holy Spirit.

 

[Tamara224]

So, would you say that the difference is that an inspirational thought originates within the human mind, but a prophetic words originates with God himself?

Whom are you asking?

IMO, yes but only insofar as you define "inspirational" to mean uplifting/edifying and not "inspired by God."

 

[churchlady]

I have said that the OT model of "prophet" is no longer applicable anymore, but the gift of prophecy never changed.

So what do you do about Agabus?

 

[Tamara224]

And as I said before, you provide me a quote where I have said that on here. I have never said that. I have said that the OT model of "prophet" is no longer applicable anymore, but the gift of prophecy never changed.

I'm not trying to catch you in a lie here, Dave. Quit being so paranoid. I'm just trying to establish what exactly your position is. You seem to be flip-flopping a lot.


So, is it your position that a prophet is one who prophesies? Or is it not?

Can someone who is not a prophet speak a prophecy?


What Scriptural support do you have for your contention that "OT model of "prophet" is no longer applicable anymore"?

 

[ARBITER01]

So what do you do about Agabus?

Did I say there wasn't prophets anymore?

 

[ARBITER01]

I'm not trying to catch you in a lie here, Dave. Quit being so paranoid. I'm just trying to establish what exactly your position is. You seem to be flip-flopping a lot.

If you ask me right questions and stop trying to put words into my mouth, you get a straight answer from me.

So, is it your position that a prophet is one who prophesies? Or is it not?

No, anyone can have the gift of prophecy. The office of a prophet is different.

Can someone who is not a prophet speak a prophecy?

Yes.

What Scriptural support do you have for your contention that "OT model of "prophet" is no longer applicable anymore"?

The OT model died out with John the baptist. We have received a ministry of reconcilation from our Lord, not one of condemnation,..

1 ¶ (ASV) There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus.

So the OT model of prophet that condemned GOD's people at times is no longer applicable.

 

[churchlady]

I have said that the OT model of "prophet" is no longer applicable anymore, but the gift of prophecy never changed.

Did I say there wasn't prophets anymore?

How is what Agabus spoke to Paul, different then what many Old Test. prophetics spoke to kings in their day?

 

[ARBITER01]

How is what Agabus spoke to Paul, different then what many Old Test. prophetics spoke to kings in their day?

Have we recieved a ministry of condemnation like in the OT?

 

[Tamara224]

If you ask me right questions and stop trying to put words into my mouth, you get a straight answer from me.




No, anyone can have the gift of prophecy. The office of a prophet is different.



Yes.




The OT model died out with John the baptist. We have received a ministry of reconcilation from our Lord, not one of condemnation,..



So the OT model of prophet that condemned GOD's people at times is no longer applicable.

What about warnings, conviction? BTW, I have to disagree that the OT prophets model was one of condemnation.

 

[LittleRocketBoy]

I have to disagree.

Speaking prophetically does not always mean you are speaking via inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Prophecy simply means to "speak forth" from an utterance.

The "utterance" or "voice" that you are speaking forth from can be any number of things.

1 It can be the utterance of the Holy Spirit.
2.It can be the utterance of your own born again spirit.
3.It can be the utterance of a demonic spirit.. which is obviously not what we want.
4. I can be from your own mind. Again, not exactly what we want, but can be acceptable depending on the circumstances.

"Bless the Lord O my soul..."

would be an example.

 

[ARBITER01]

What about warnings, conviction? BTW, I have to disagree that the OT prophets model was one of condemnation.

I have to correct myself here before I go on. The last OT prophet was Jesus not John the baptist, and when He died that particular office of condemnation died out also. Fortunately He rose from the grave, and we have a different office from Him now, one of reconciliation.

A designated prophet in the assembly can give warnings and guidance to the body of Christ through the revelation gifts, but individual guidance like the OT model is not to be sought from that prophet since we have all received The Holy Spirit inside, and are told by The Lord Jesus to seek and knock from GOD ourselves.

 

[ARBITER01]

I have to disagree.

Speaking prophetically does not always mean you are speaking via inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Prophecy simply means to "speak forth" from an utterance.

The "utterance" or "voice" that you are speaking forth from can be any number of things.

1 It can be the utterance of the Holy Spirit.
2.It can be the utterance of your own born again spirit.
3.It can be the utterance of a demonic spirit.. which is obviously not what we want.
4. I can be from your own mind. Again, not exactly what we want, but can be acceptable depending on the circumstances.

"Bless the Lord O my soul..."

would be an example.

Yea Dids, I can step out in faith with my gift of tongues, does that mean it was The Holy Spirit speaking at that moment when I did?

People get confused over the gift of prophecy when they see people do that and claim it was from GOD.

 

[LittleRocketBoy]

Yea Dids, I can step out in faith with my gift of tongues, does that mean it was The Holy Spirit speaking at that moment when I did?

People get confused over the gift of prophecy when they see people do that and claim it was from GOD.

This is one of the biggest errors in the spirit filled community. We can all prophesy and speak with tongues from out of the spirit of Christ in us..that is our own born again spirit. But it is incorrect to claim "divine attribution" for these sorts of prophecies and tongues. This sort of tongues and prophecy is what Paul is talking about tin the entire 14th chapter of 1 Corin.
We can all prophesy one by one... but we all do not have the Holy Spirit enabled gift of prophecy.

 

[millerrod]

Dave i have never seen you use the gift of prophecy but that doesnt mean you have it.
could you answer a simple questian do you have the gift of prophecy ??

 

[ARBITER01]

This is one of the biggest errors in the spirit filled community. We can all prophesy and speak with tongues from out of the spirit of Christ in us..that is our own born again spirit. But it is incorrect to claim "divine attribution" for these sorts of prophecies and tongues. This sort of tongues and prophecy is what Paul is talking about tin the entire 14th chapter of 1 Corin.
We can all prophesy one by one... but we all do not have the Holy Spirit enabled gift of prophecy.

Sorry dids, the gift of prophecy is for the assembly,..

4 (ASV) He that speaketh in a tongue {1} edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth {1} edifieth the church. {1) Gr buildeth up}

It is a sign gift to believers, and it is to be yielded to The Holy Spirit in the assembly when He prompts us.

 

[ARBITER01]

Dave i have never seen you use the gift of prophecy but that doesnt mean you have it.
could you answer a simple questian do you have the gift of prophecy ??

Yes I do have the gift of prophecy, and no you won't see me utilize it here since GOD wouldn't prompt me to do that. It is for the assembly.