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The above, BTW, was done as a last-ditch effort to keep feuding factions apart lest the colony they started wind up in danger of self-destruction.
CFR.
2 Nephi 5:20-21
20 Wherefore, the word of the Lord was fulfilled which he spake unto me, saying that: Inasmuch as they will not hearken unto thy words they shall be cut off from the presence of the Lord. And behold, they were cut off from his presence.
21 And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.
Yeah, but describing white as "fair and delightsome" and black as unenticing does sound a bit racist don't you think? In any case, it was a big turn-off to me. Of course, back in the 70's the Mormon Church was a lot more racist than it is today. What happened in Brazil seems to have been a big turning point. Besides, it produced the likes of Scott Card, which is awesome!
Same questions for you: What do you know of ancient garment (animal skins) color symbolism, as it's found in ancient Jewish, early Christianity, & in other mystery religions?
The above, BTW, was done as a last-ditch effort to keep feuding factions apart lest the colony they started wind up in danger of self-destruction.
2 Nephi 5:20-21
20 Wherefore, the word of the Lord was fulfilled which he spake unto me, saying that: Inasmuch as they will not hearken unto thy words they shall be cut off from the presence of the Lord. And behold, they were cut off from his presence.
21 And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.
Ironhold you have confused: ‘How people treated Indians and Negros’ with ‘The BOM, LDS doctrines and their belief that the color of their skin and race was a curse (because of unbelief, and or sins).'Hate to say it, but someone fed you a lie' (Ironhold)
It is in the Church History, and Oliver went north to Canada with the promise that he would sell the copyright to Joe's book. No one bought it. Harris also tried to sell it once also.And you know his motivations, how? (Smaneck, from post 196)
And a lot of them ended up in the Bible. (Smaneck, from post 196)
I'm talking about Paul's conception of the Gospel, not yours. You were quoting Paul.
It goes against the second century author of Titus, yes.
Uh, the verse before that says that the king should not multiply his horses either. Does that mean a king can have only one horse?
Yeah, right.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Mighty selective in your quoting, aren't you. Further down wiki says:
"The Pastoral epistles are regarded by some scholars as being pseudepigraphical. On the basis of the language and content of the pastoral epistles, these scholars today doubt that they were written by Paul and believe that they were written after his death. The early Church did not agree. Critics claim the vocabulary and style of the Pauline letters could not have been written by Paul according to available biographical information and reflect the views of the emerging Church rather than the apostle's. These scholars date the epistle from the 80s CE up to the end of the 2nd century.[5] The Church of England's Common Worship Lectionary Scripture Commentary concurs with this view: "the proportioning of the theological and practical themes is one factor that leads us to think of these writings as coming from the post-Pauline church world of the late first or early second century"."
I might add that Titus is not mentioned by any of the Church Fathers prior to 170 A.D.
I am not going to derail this thread with a treatise on Titus! It is in the bible and that is all I am going to say on this thread. "Scholars" say a lot of things!
He is not taking horses as his wives and bedding them to beget children.
It is plainly stated that Mormons think most of the bible is not authentic , corrupted, not translated right, and so on--
It's an impossibility to get 2 groups to agree on the meaning of a book that both do not recognize as pertinent.
No, not really.I think Mormons have some issues with parts of the Bible
Whatever corruption the Bible has undergone, God has more than compensated for in the entire body of revelation we espouse, making, in effect, the fact of biblical corruption of no lasting consequence. It is in the composite of revealed scripture that we find God's standard of "in the mouth of two or three witnesses" fulfilled. To say that we don't trust the Bible, or that we find fault with itthese are the empty claims of ignorant or antagonistic persons, where the LDS religion is concerned.but I've never heard them suggest most of it is corrupted. But I'll let them speak for themselves on that issue.
It is in the Church History, and Oliver went north to Canada with the promise that he would sell the copyright to Joe's book. No one bought it. Harris also tried to sell it once also.
If you want to discuss the Apocrypha, then I hope you've read up on it. Otherwise what is scripture is scripture and what is Apocrypha is Apocrypha, if you don't know the difference or why, I guess it's time you should learn.
And they generally have good reasons for what they say. My point is that the Bible is full of pseudepigrapha. If you are going to reject anything that claims to be scripture on that basis you'll have to chuck a good deal of the Bible.
My point was you completely misrepresented that passage of scripture. It says kings should not multiply wives or horses. If that doesn't mean a king can only have one horse, there is no reason to think it means a king can have only one wife. All I see it saying is 'don't go overboard with either one.'
I think Mormons have some issues with parts of the Bible but I've never heard them suggest most of it is corrupted. But I'll let them speak for themselves on that issue.
Then why keep debating it?
I guess because you guys claim to follow the bible--the true bible as written by JS.
Someone has been feeding you a load of nonsense...I guess because you guys claim to follow the bible--the true bible as written by JS. And the bible is quoted by the Mormons as authority for some of their believes--so it seems you want to keep the bible, but throw it out at the same time. It's confusing. It's like saying, "I'll keep commandments 2,5, 6, and 8, but the rest are not written by God so we'll eliminate those and replace them with what we think He really said.
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