What's on your mind?

Saucy said:

Yeah many churches just aren't equipped to run singles ministries. There are few people who step up to help run groups.

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I'm not convinced that there necessarily need to be singles ministries, at least not dedicated ones. But what does need to happen is for single people not to feel excluded. Stop the continual focus on families, don't have someone who married their high school sweetheart extol the virtues of singleness, give up on the rhetoric which comes across as empty platitudes, and simply just start listening to singles and what they feel their needs are.

Lady of Winter please come soon to save me from this 110 degree hell that is Houston!

TheRealAriel said:

Kind of a weird day… I got a little mouthy at small group today. There was a bunch of comments about how the church wanted to make sure our singles group doesn’t become a meat market and how maybe God is choosing to make us single right now because we need to work on ourselves more as individuals before we’re ready for marriage. Both got under my skin.

I said “excuse me, I have a hot take, contrary opinion. I am thankful that the church acknowledges singles at all, but I also know there are many of us here who desire a partner to spend life with. We are told to find a partner who is equally yoked and pursuing faith.. but then told that we shouldn’t be looking in the church for a partner. Sometimes I think the church is so scared of the idea of pre-marital sex that it acts like dating itself is something to be ashamed of.” The leader cut me off and said that the church wants to protect us and make us feel like we could come to group without being hit on. I said “sure, we don’t have to meet people here specifically, but I would like if there were events to bring people together that wanted to pursue dating or studies about how to date well instead of always about being content in singleness.” I got cut off again and they ended up abruptly ending the group for the day. It was frustrating.

Then I went to a singles conference this evening and it was all these presentations by married men who literally introduced themselves as “hi I’m ___ and I’ve been married for ____ years.” They were trying to talk to us about singleness and dating when they all had been married over 15 years.

I just don’t get why the church does this. I feel so let down in this area. But on the bright side all the 30s group was on the same page in our frustrations and we had some good conversation in our frustrated headspace.

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You brought up good points.

The church I had gone to for years was (and still is, according to a relative of mine that still attends) against single Christians meeting each other at church and dating them.

I think you are right about the church being afraid of pre-martial sex happening. I've concluded the same thing after my experiences. Why else are they afraid of singles meeting at church? Is it somehow different from singles meeting in Seminary school?

Does anyone else think the church brings up more about how Christian women marry non-Christian men?

TheRealAriel said:

Kind of a weird day… I got a little mouthy at small group today. There was a bunch of comments about how the church wanted to make sure our singles group doesn’t become a meat market and how maybe God is choosing to make us single right now because we need to work on ourselves more as individuals before we’re ready for marriage. Both got under my skin.

I said “excuse me, I have a hot take, contrary opinion. I am thankful that the church acknowledges singles at all, but I also know there are many of us here who desire a partner to spend life with. We are told to find a partner who is equally yoked and pursuing faith.. but then told that we shouldn’t be looking in the church for a partner. Sometimes I think the church is so scared of the idea of pre-marital sex that it acts like dating itself is something to be ashamed of.” The leader cut me off and said that the church wants to protect us and make us feel like we could come to group without being hit on. I said “sure, we don’t have to meet people here specifically, but I would like if there were events to bring people together that wanted to pursue dating or studies about how to date well instead of always about being content in singleness.” I got cut off again and they ended up abruptly ending the group for the day. It was frustrating.

Then I went to a singles conference this evening and it was all these presentations by married men who literally introduced themselves as “hi I’m ___ and I’ve been married for ____ years.” They were trying to talk to us about singleness and dating when they all had been married over 15 years.

I just don’t get why the church does this. I feel so let down in this area. But on the bright side all the 30s group was on the same page in our frustrations and we had some good conversation in our frustrated headspace.

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You poor thing. Just reading this made my blood pressure go up. I admire you immensely for speaking up! Every point you made was completely valid. "The Church" doesn't want to help facilitate people meeting each other, but then will turn around and decry them for looking outside the church community for people to date. Ah, yes, be fruitful and multiply, but NEVER look at another Christian with anything remotely resembling desire or interest.

I agree this is a modern issue perhaps the church wasn't prepared for. Everyone has always married young and toted the line. It's why all the older people constantly mention it. Now there are SO many singles in their 30s and 40s. Pastors are generally married, so as I said up top, they're not equipped and weren't prepared.

I can understand being frustrated, but also try to understand they don't understand our perspective as this has never happened in previous generations. We're looking for guidance, but how can they really offer it in the way we need it? Gather some singles together and get together with church leadership and help them understand.

High Fidelity said:

I can certainly understand the preparedness statement, because it makes sense and in many cases it is required.

Ultimately a successful couple is comprised of two individuals. They may become one in unity under marriage, but they are still two individuals and should both be individually prepared in their own way.

Whether or not God is choosing circumstances for us in that regard, we'd still be wise to utilise (and enjoy) that freedom from commitment to work on ourselves and better prepare for life in general, but also for life in marriage and what we can and do bring to the table.

I know for myself I feel God placing great emphasis on me to be better able to fellowship with my future spouse. That means a greater foundational understanding of Scripture and what it means to be Christian, a depth of knowledge that can facilitate edifying conversation, and an overall wisdom, grounded in Scripture, that will help keep our union fruitful, edifying and stable for the rest of our lives.
So that's what I'm working on at the moment, both as an individual for my own benefit, but also being conscious that getting my own house in order means I'm a better host for a potential spouse when the time comes too.

As far as the speakers go, it's frustrating sometimes when people like that think because they've reached that point that they're an authority, but ultimately reaching a destination doesn't mean they understand the journey, and a journey is anything but linear. I am sure they offer some valuable insight, though.

There are some things that the single men will, on average, struggle with more than the ladies. We've seen one example paraded and wrongly defended here, and it's sad how ready some folks are to try and defend the indefensible, so I can understand why in that setting they would be trying to address certain themes.

I'm sorry it was a negative experience, though, and I do agree that it's a great environment and opportunity to meet like-minded people that are also seeking the same thing. I hope they recognise that and can balance that aspect as well.

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Yeah, I definitely agree with the idea that this is a really valuable time that we should take advantage of. More time to grow close with the Lord, time to build other relationships and friendship, more time to give in service, time to develop who we are (in faith and in other regards) so we’re ready to be good partners. It’s all definitely good advice.

My issues are when it’s the only advice and when it comes from a place that implies that we are less edified than those who are married and that’s why God isn’t giving us the desires of our hearts. The pastor said “if you are praying for a partner and you’re stuck in a season of singleness, it’s probably because God needs to give you more time to work on your relationship with him.” I don’t like blanket statements that assume Gods motivations. Or statements that take lonely, hurting people and tell them it’s their fault that they’re stuck in loneliness. And I refuse to believe that those who marry at 22 are all just fast learners who develop perfect relationships with God right away. (To be clear, I don’t get the impression you feel that way either, so I’m not expressing frustration with you but with my church)

Maybe a good solution would be for you or one of your friends from the group to start a separate group chat or Facebook group for the singles who attend regularly. You guys could take turns organizing a fun outing that isn't an official church sanctioned event. More of an informal get together that you can use an opportunity to connect and socialize. Just a thought. That's what I would do in your situation.

YankeeGirl said:

Maybe a good solution would be for you or one of your friends from the group to start a separate group chat or Facebook group for the singles who attend regularly. You guys could take turns organizing a fun outing that isn't an official church sanctioned event. More of an informal get together that you can use an opportunity to connect and socialize. Just a thought. That's what I would do in your situation.

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thankfully we do have that going for us. The 30s have created their own GroupMe thread and we do a lot of stuff together on our own. It’s been great and we’re becoming a solid group of friends- just isn’t really conducive to finding new people to add to our numbers and potentially find a love connection with.

TheRealAriel said:

Yeah, I definitely agree with the idea that this is a really valuable time that we should take advantage of. More time to grow close with the Lord, time to build other relationships and friendship, more time to give in service, time to develop who we are (in faith and in other regards) so we’re ready to be good partners. It’s all definitely good advice.

My issues are when it’s the only advice and when it comes from a place that implies that we are less edified than those who are married and that’s why God isn’t giving us the desires of our hearts. The pastor said “if you are praying for a partner and you’re stuck in a season of singleness, it’s probably because God needs to give you more time to work on your relationship with him.” I don’t like blanket statements that assume Gods motivations. Or statements that take lonely, hurting people and tell them it’s their fault that they’re stuck in loneliness. And I refuse to believe that those who marry at 22 are all just fast learners who develop perfect relationships with God right away. (To be clear, I don’t get the impression you feel that way either, so I’m not expressing frustration with you but with my church)

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I don't like that either. Sometimes a person is totally capable of being in a good relationship, but is still single because they don't have anyone else to match with. It's very shortsighted to think that all single people are flawed in some way or not ready to be married. Plenty of married people are flawed and may not even be a decent partner in their marriage. We have no idea what many of these marriages are like behind closed doors.

Saucy said:

I agree this is a modern issue perhaps the church wasn't prepared for. Everyone has always married young and toted the line. It's why all the older people constantly mention it. Now there are SO many singles in their 30s and 40s. Pastors are generally married, so as I said up top, they're not equipped and weren't prepared.

I can understand being frustrated, but also try to understand they don't understand our perspective as this has never happened in previous generations. We're looking for guidance, but how can they really offer it in the way we need it? Gather some singles together and get together with church leadership and help them understand.

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I think that’s an additional frustration point in my situation. I am so grateful my church even recognizes singles as a group and encourages us, but it seems like they got to a certain point and just stopped listening. When the group began last year we were mixed 30s and 40s. It blew up (I think mostly because it was the only young single group in middle Tennessee) so they split us out into 30s as a group and 40s as a group. The 30s loved this and felt like we had a much better voice on our own because the 40s had personalities that overpowered us before.

Then the 40s started complaining about being separated so they went to the Singles minister and complained. He ended up getting the leaders from 30s and 40s to talk to their groups, then report back to him about what we are wanting moving forward. 30s were united that we wanted to be our own thing and that we wanted events going forward that catered to our demographic (all the events up to then were catered towards 50plus). The groups were all put on hiatus and when they resumed we were told that we were being absorbed again and 4 people from the 40s group had been chosen to be facilitators for our groups and events. So now we have zero voice, the things we brought up to leadership were ignored with no explanation, and we’re continuing down a road that feels really alienating to the younger generations.

And now when we bring up to our new leaders that we want studies more geared towards things like how to find a Christian partner, how to set good boundaries, how to date well and recognize good and bad fruits, etc we’re being told that if we make things about dating it’s going to turn into a “meat market.”

TheRealAriel said:

Yeah, I definitely agree with the idea that this is a really valuable time that we should take advantage of. More time to grow close with the Lord, time to build other relationships and friendship, more time to give in service, time to develop who we are (in faith and in other regards) so we’re ready to be good partners. It’s all definitely good advice.

My issues are when it’s the only advice and when it comes from a place that implies that we are less edified than those who are married and that’s why God isn’t giving us the desires of our hearts. The pastor said “if you are praying for a partner and you’re stuck in a season of singleness, it’s probably because God needs to give you more time to work on your relationship with him.” I don’t like blanket statements that assume Gods motivations. Or statements that take lonely, hurting people and tell them it’s their fault that they’re stuck in loneliness. And I refuse to believe that those who marry at 22 are all just fast learners who develop perfect relationships with God right away. (To be clear, I don’t get the impression you feel that way either, so I’m not expressing frustration with you but with my church)

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Yup for sure. I think people try and rationalise things and ‘God’s will’ is a very easy answer for the unknown.

I have no doubt God does have a hand in some things, but we are also given room to move ourselves otherwise we’d just be robots on rails and nothing we did would be our own choice or free will, which just isn’t the case.

TheRealAriel said:

I think that’s an additional frustration point in my situation. I am so grateful my church even recognizes singles as a group and encourages us, but it seems like they got to a certain point and just stopped listening. When the group began last year we were mixed 30s and 40s. It blew up (I think mostly because it was the only young single group in middle Tennessee) so they split us out into 30s as a group and 40s as a group. The 30s loved this and felt like we had a much better voice on our own because the 40s had personalities that overpowered us before.

Then the 40s started complaining about being separated so they went to the Singles minister and complained. He ended up getting the leaders from 30s and 40s to talk to their groups, then report back to him about what we are wanting moving forward. 30s were united that we wanted to be our own thing and that we wanted events going forward that catered to our demographic (all the events up to then were catered towards 50plus). The groups were all put on hiatus and when they resumed we were told that we were being absorbed again and 4 people from the 40s group had been chosen to be facilitators for our groups and events. So now we have zero voice, the things we brought up to leadership were ignored with no explanation, and we’re continuing down a road that feels really alienating to the younger generations.

And now when we bring up to our new leaders that we want studies more geared towards things like how to find a Christian partner, how to set good boundaries, how to date well and recognize good and bad fruits, etc we’re being told that if we make things about dating it’s going to turn into a “meat market.”

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To be honest I’d just stop going at that point.

Yes they’re your spiritual leaders but they’re clearly misreading the room and the requirements of those within it which are very reasonable.


If you have the means to facilitate and accomplish the outcomes you want as the group you’d like, I’d do that, especially as it will be the dissenting voices in the official thing that can figure out what to do with the cake they wanted and are now seemingly free to eat too.

Not every group or ministry is going to give an individual what they need, which is fine, so that would be my decision instead of being lumbered with a group of people that made the situation worse and forced the current status quo.

TheRealAriel said:

I think that’s an additional frustration point in my situation. I am so grateful my church even recognizes singles as a group and encourages us, but it seems like they got to a certain point and just stopped listening. When the group began last year we were mixed 30s and 40s. It blew up (I think mostly because it was the only young single group in middle Tennessee) so they split us out into 30s as a group and 40s as a group. The 30s loved this and felt like we had a much better voice on our own because the 40s had personalities that overpowered us before.

Then the 40s started complaining about being separated so they went to the Singles minister and complained. He ended up getting the leaders from 30s and 40s to talk to their groups, then report back to him about what we are wanting moving forward. 30s were united that we wanted to be our own thing and that we wanted events going forward that catered to our demographic (all the events up to then were catered towards 50plus). The groups were all put on hiatus and when they resumed we were told that we were being absorbed again and 4 people from the 40s group had been chosen to be facilitators for our groups and events. So now we have zero voice, the things we brought up to leadership were ignored with no explanation, and we’re continuing down a road that feels really alienating to the younger generations.

And now when we bring up to our new leaders that we want studies more geared towards things like how to find a Christian partner, how to set good boundaries, how to date well and recognize good and bad fruits, etc we’re being told that if we make things about dating it’s going to turn into a “meat market.”

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Wow, I'm so sorry to hear that. That's a ridiculous reply, saying it will become a "meat market." These are things the church SHOULD be teaching, along with other things. It's relevant to where you are in your walk right now. Helping singles remain pure and having godly boundaries is important.

High Fidelity said:

To be honest I’d just stop going at that point.

Yes they’re your spiritual leaders but they’re clearly misreading the room and the requirements of those within it which are very reasonable.


If you have the means to facilitate and accomplish the outcomes you want as the group you’d like, I’d do that, especially as it will be the dissenting voices in the official thing that can figure out what to do with the cake they wanted and are now seemingly free to eat too.

Not every group or ministry is going to give an individual what they need, which is fine, so that would be my decision instead of being lumbered with a group of people that made the situation worse and forced the current status quo.

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I do agree with this. Maybe make one more attempt at speaking with leadership (if you feel led to do so) and if they continue to ignore you, it's probably time to move forward. I will be praying for you!

Saucy said:

I do agree with this. Maybe make one more attempt at speaking with leadership (if you feel led to do so) and if they continue to ignore you, it's probably time to move forward. I will be praying for you!

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I’ve felt called to leading a small group for a looong time now. I think this might be heading towards that.

I’m about to start my student teaching internship for the fall so I won’t have time to be a good leader right now, but I do think I’ll hang in there until Spring and then start talking to leadership about leading the 30s group myself.

The a nice thing about the stuff I’ve been through heading into this season of life is I’m much bolder than I used to be. I’m getting better about communicating needs, setting and voicing boundaries, and recognizing toxic behavior. It’s really cool when you step back a little and think about how God’s been working on you to prepare you for the next steps in life. Lord willing this will help me be a better leader if that’s really where this goes!

TheRealAriel said:

I’ve felt called to leading a small group for a looong time now. I think this might be heading towards that.

I’m about to start my student teaching internship for the fall so I won’t have time to be a good leader right now, but I do think I’ll hang in there until Spring and then start talking to leadership about leading the 30s group myself.

The a nice thing about the stuff I’ve been through heading into this season of life is I’m much bolder than I used to be. I’m getting better about communicating needs, setting and voicing boundaries, and recognizing toxic behavior. It’s really cool when you step back a little and think about how God’s been working on you to prepare you for the next steps in life. Lord willing this will help me be a better leader if that’s really where this goes!

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Praise God! That would be amazing! I could just see you making vegan tacos for a whole group

People seriously boggle my mind!

peaceful-forest said:

I think you are right about the church being afraid of pre-martial sex happening.

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It's weird how how pre-marital sex sometimes comes across as though it's the worst sin that anyone can commit. Forget lying, stealing, gossiping, etc. - getting naked with someone seems to supersede all of those. I'm certainly not condoning it, but I do think that there's room for it to be viewed in a much more reasonable way and with greater understanding.

Citanul said:

It's weird how how pre-marital sex sometimes comes across as though it's the worst sin that anyone can commit. Forget lying, stealing, gossiping, etc. - getting naked with someone seems to supersede all of those. I'm certainly not condoning it, but I do think that there's room for it to be viewed in a much more reasonable way and with greater understanding.

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On the contrary, I rarely hear churches preach against it. It's like 'too many people think it's not that big of a deal, let's not touch that one.' I hear 'it's no big deal' so much, the few who say 'don't do it!' gets drowned out.

TheRealAriel said:

Kind of a weird day… I got a little mouthy at small group today. There was a bunch of comments about how the church wanted to make sure our singles group doesn’t become a meat market and how maybe God is choosing to make us single right now because we need to work on ourselves more as individuals before we’re ready for marriage. Both got under my skin.

I said “excuse me, I have a hot take, contrary opinion. I am thankful that the church acknowledges singles at all, but I also know there are many of us here who desire a partner to spend life with. We are told to find a partner who is equally yoked and pursuing faith.. but then told that we shouldn’t be looking in the church for a partner. Sometimes I think the church is so scared of the idea of pre-marital sex that it acts like dating itself is something to be ashamed of.” The leader cut me off and said that the church wants to protect us and make us feel like we could come to group without being hit on. I said “sure, we don’t have to meet people here specifically, but I would like if there were events to bring people together that wanted to pursue dating or studies about how to date well instead of always about being content in singleness.” I got cut off again and they ended up abruptly ending the group for the day. It was frustrating.

Then I went to a singles conference this evening and it was all these presentations by married men who literally introduced themselves as “hi I’m ___ and I’ve been married for ____ years.” They were trying to talk to us about singleness and dating when they all had been married over 15 years.

I just don’t get why the church does this. I feel so let down in this area. But on the bright side all the 30s group was on the same page in our frustrations and we had some good conversation in our frustrated headspace.

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I am sorry Ariel. Me & a couple other posters were just talking about how we find it hypocritical for marrieds to condemn us singles in ours 30s for wanting to get married, when they got married in their 20s. We were saying we also find it hard to meet singles w/ similar beliefs in the Pagan world, yet churches made up of people who share are beliefs don't have events that cater to singles building relationships w/ each other -> it's geared to families.

I wonder if there was an incident in the group?

I don't think it's 'churches are afraid of people having pre-marital sex', but rather they're scared people will lose focus -> it's ultimately about God, not finding a spouse. Even us singles who would like to meet a partner at church need to remember this.

Churches are doing it very wrong. I see a big problem: Instead of meeting godly spouses at church, they're going out into the world & meeting pagans b/c they feel the church is letting them down. Then guess which partner wins in establishing rules,, the godly spouse or the pagan spouse? The pagan one does.

Be patient. Hang in there. After 10 years I finally found a good church group of people in their 20s & 30s. There's some marrieds, but a lot of singles too. Maybe your group's leader would like to see more marrieds integrated into the group rather than strictly singles? I'm starting to think singles-only groups are bad (b/c single or married isn't a mark of how far you are in life) & singles & marrieds both are needed in a healthy group.

As a single Christian, this topic is interesting to me & I'd love to read everyone else's replies, but work calls!

Ariel, I'd present your concerns to the leader. Make sure you hi-light you don't want to cause problems, but have legit concerns. Share the importance of believers finding other genuine believers -> how will that impact the church? How will that impact the broader community? How will that impact the people in the group? What measures can be put in place to prevent it from being a 'meat market.' Is that concern based in reality, of the people in the group, or a lie? Share you're praying about it - & do pray about it. Talk w/ them over coffee, in public. Say you're willing to listen to what they think & are open to it - & be open to it. Say you'd like him to hear your perspective too. God bless!

DragonFox91 said:

On the contrary, I rarely hear churches preach against it. It's like 'too many people think it's not that big of a deal, let's not touch that one.' I hear 'it's no big deal' so much, the few who say 'don't do it!' gets drowned out.

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It's not so much preaching about it, as I also haven't heard that very often. But the way it gets discussed amongst Christians can at times be with language that almost vilifies someone who has had sex with someone they weren't married to. More often that not it seems to be directed at women, but I have seen the same sort of rhetoric applied to men as well.