Whats on your mind...?!

[quietpraiyze]

There is something I've noticed and I've actually been watching it for a while...

There is this residual of Google that I'm not even sure they knew would come about. It's kind of interesting to me how Google has some people thinking they're "learned" when in fact they really are not. I have a certain academic background that affords me to know when someone doesn't know my particular Discipline but they're trying to act like they do (I'm sure this has happened to others as well). Instead of saying they don't know, they run and Google so called Statistics and/or pull down videos on YouTube. To me this is both dishonest and tragic. I can't have a real conversation with someone who pretends to know something they don't and that annoys me because there's no real hope of real friendship/relationship. However in truth I don't think those who do this behavior want to have a real conversation for precisely that reason. They just want to win. They want to "conquer" you if they can to feel like they've accomplished something...I guess. I actually think it's worse in some Christian circles with their "Google theology" because they're trying to act like they have some kind of divine understanding, when it's just a bunch of memorization and regurgitation. It's all so hollow. Fortunately for me I grew up in a time when conversation was a real part of human interaction. If I hadn't grown up with those kinds of exchanges, looking at today's "internet conversations" I wouldn't even know real conversations used to exist in an honest manner between humans. The fact that here we are in 2018 and some people who claim they're adults don't know...wow.

That felt good to say...

 

[dayhiker]

Quiet .. very interesting observation. I'd not thought of that. Tho I had thought of it from the perspective of how easy it is to go get information today compared to when we were young.

 

[quietpraiyze]

@dayhiker

See I thought about that too in terms of how easy it is to access info but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about what is pretty much so tantamount to some kind of "intellectual plagiarism". Some people are presenting themselves like they have hands on experience with a subject when they don't. All they did was co-opt someone else's thoughts and ideas online and make them their own. I've experienced this on a couple of occasions. With one person I even asked them if they had any interaction with a particular group because of something they suggested and they had not. I knew they hadn't because I had a great deal of interaction with some from said group intensely for well over 7 years. That person just wanted to look smart about something they weren't. No never mind the mess they could have made for others. It just seems like to me I'm seeing it more and more because some people don't seem to care that they're lying.

 

[dayhiker]

I see what your saying now, quiet. Ya, I'd not thought of that type of plagiarism before.
Some people seem to love telling others what to do and I guess the first step is to think they know what's best for other people. Of course only God knows His purpose for their life. Then there are the freedom issues they aren't allowing others if they try to put their ideas onto others.

 

[quietpraiyze]

I see what your saying now, quiet. Ya, I'd not thought of that type of plagiarism before.
Some people seem to love telling others what to do and I guess the first step is to think they know what's best for other people. Of course only God knows His purpose for their life. Then there are the freedom issues they aren't allowing others if they try to put their ideas onto others.

In the context that I'm speaking of, I think this problem usually only comes to fruition when some people say they're something or trying to present themselves as something when they're not. Unfortunately for them the ones who know, are the ones who are actually that something. God has never not had a standard. As a Christian I know that freedom is within both God's living Word and His written Word. For this reason Christian freedom isn't without it's within. Some people try though with their false doctrine(s) and pride/selfishness and get a jolt when other Christians don't co-sign their sinful lifestyle. In the latter case I do think it has everything to do with love of God through his son Jesus Christ, love of the world, or simply not ever having really been Born Again to begin with.

 

[quietpraiyze]

I didn't always understand how Matthew 7:22-23 could happen but I do now...

 

[BillieMae]

Hey all - I'm new here and this looks like it could be an interesting place, so I thought I'd resurrect it ...

so what's on your mind?

 

[JAM2b]

Finishing this book I'm writing; getting Christmas stuff made so I can sell it in Nov/early December

I want to be self-employed soooooo bad.

 

[quietpraiyze]

There is something on my mind...

I just got through responding to a particular thread regarding homosexuality and for the life of me I don't understand why so many people seem to come unglued with that subject. It's like so many shove Christ out the way and go into some kind of self righteousness. I don't know if its because they've never known any real gay people or they have them designated in some kind of special "sin category" or exactly what it is. All I know is that there is such a coldness and lack of compassion that I can't imagine any of these people ever being able to actually reach anybody gay IRL.

Maybe it's because I grew up around a variety of gay people. Some were considered friends of my family of origin, while others were considered family. I just saw them as people. After I became Born Again, I couldn't help but notice Anita Bryant's campaign against gays or the many other so called "christian politicizing/dehumanizing campaigns" against gay people down through the years but it never changed my seeing gay people as people because I think that's a part of God's nature. They don't have some kind of special status with me that makes them worse. For me gay people are just people who don't know Christ and Jesus wants them to know Him and all that He has for them. Not just repentance but He wants them to have His life and everything that entails.

I watched God save a gay white man through my life in Christ. I never saw it coming and it took a number of years but God did it. The guy looked like a cross between a Hell's Angel Biker and ZZ Top. He had tattoo's and piercings just a going. Here I was a square black woman who loves Jesus but was struggling with institutional religion. So all I had to offer him was Jesus and friendship. All I had to do was live my life as I always had in Christ and turned out that was enough. God took it from there. God manifested Himself to this man in ways that were unmistakable. On a regular basis God showed up and showed out. Even if this man had never chose Christ, he would never be able to say God wasn't real but he did get Born Again and the angels rejoiced over him like they did over me.

To me gay people aren't the problem. They're just part of the unsaved. No I think so many of us are MIA and we don't know how to show up because so many have forgotten the words of Jesus, to go out into the highways and by ways and compel them to come in and when they do come to allow the Holy Spirit to transform them into the likeness of Christ. Some of us have forgotten Jesus all together. His life, words, actions, and compassion.

So maybe there's a snowballs chance in hell that you will ever have to deal with homosexuality, personally or within your family. Maybe you see gay people as the scum of the earth but what I know to be true is that Jesus Christ died and rose for them too. He said with His loving kindness has he drawn thee. Not with a whip, hateful words, and cruel actions. God is not like man. To think that he is would be making a big mistake on our part. God's ways and thoughts are higher than ours. God sees everything. Nothing escapes Him, including how we treat gay people and their Christian loved ones, who are in the thick of it. Who are trying to do what is right in the sight of the Lord in what is for many uncharted territory. All I know is that God is more and we've got to show up better than we have been.

Whew! That felt good to say....

 

[bèlla]

@quietpraiyze

Perhaps God has given you a burden for homosexuals. You'll possess greater insight and compassion and discover a willingness to pray and minister to them without difficulty. I have a similar regard for the lost.

As for your question, it always comes back to love and treating our neighbor well. God didn't include any caveats in that statement. We weren't given permission to exclude according to race, sin, weakness, etc. Love covers a multitude of sins.

Jerry Bridges wrote an interesting book on this issue called Sins We Accept. You may enjoy it. He addresses our comfort with some and vilification of others.

Yours in His Service,

~Bella

 

[dayhiker]

Quiet .. thanks for sharing. While I've not been personally involved in a church that shamed gay people while I was present, I've heard about it so many times. I have been around for other sexual "sins" to see how the church makes a big deal out of those.

 

[Tony B]

There is something on my mind...

I just got through responding to a particular thread regarding homosexuality and for the life of me I don't understand why so many people seem to come unglued with that subject. It's like so many shove Christ out the way and go into some kind of self righteousness. I don't know if its because they've never known any real gay people or they have them designated in some kind of special "sin category" or exactly what it is. All I know is that there is such a coldness and lack of compassion that I can't imagine any of these people ever being able to actually reach anybody gay IRL.

Maybe it's because I grew up around a variety of gay people. Some were considered friends of my family of origin, while others were considered family. I just saw them as people. After I became Born Again, I couldn't help but notice Anita Bryant's campaign against gays or the many other so called "christian politicizing/dehumanizing campaigns" against gay people down through the years but it never changed my seeing gay people as people because I think that's a part of God's nature. They don't have some kind of special status with me that makes them worse. For me gay people are just people who don't know Christ and Jesus wants them to know Him and all that He has for them. Not just repentance but He wants them to have His life and everything that entails.

I watched God save a gay white man through my life in Christ. I never saw it coming and it took a number of years but God did it. The guy looked like a cross between a Hell's Angel Biker and ZZ Top. He had tattoo's and piercings just a going. Here I was a square black woman who loves Jesus but was struggling with institutional religion. So all I had to offer him was Jesus and friendship. All I had to do was live my life as I always had in Christ and turned out that was enough. God took it from there. God manifested Himself to this man in ways that were unmistakable. On a regular basis God showed up and showed out. Even if this man had never chose Christ, he would never be able to say God wasn't real but he did get Born Again and the angels rejoiced over him like they did over me.

To me gay people aren't the problem. They're just part of the unsaved. No I think so many of us are MIA and we don't know how to show up because so many have forgotten the words of Jesus, to go out into the highways and by ways and compel them to come in and when they do come to allow the Holy Spirit to transform them into the likeness of Christ. Some of us have forgotten Jesus all together. His life, words, actions, and compassion.

So maybe there's a snowballs chance in hell that you will ever have to deal with homosexuality, personally or within your family. Maybe you see gay people as the scum of the earth but what I know to be true is that Jesus Christ died and rose for them too. He said with His loving kindness has he drawn thee. Not with a whip, hateful words, and cruel actions. God is not like man. To think that he is would be making a big mistake on our part. God's ways and thoughts are higher than ours. God sees everything. Nothing escapes Him, including how we treat gay people and their Christian loved ones, who are in the thick of it. Who are trying to do what is right in the sight of the Lord in what is for many uncharted territory. All I know is that God is more and we've got to show up better than we have been.

Whew! That felt good to say....

Well, we can accept the person but can't accept their behaviour, or be supportive of it in any way.

I guess some Christians fear that if they have a relationship of any kind with a homosexual, they are being, or will seem to be, supportive of behaviour that is abominable to God, and therefore may be inadvertently offending Him. They may also fear being tempted into that sin, or being complicit in tempting another to sin.

Christians have to protect their household and Christian family first and foremost, and witness to the unsaved as opportunities present, but always guarding themselves from being drawn off by the evil one.

It's fantastic that you have made yourself available to God for Him to use you that way, praise God. But it is a unique ministry, and a mission field I wouldn't normally recommend an individual be exposed to by themselves, and I would keep close watch over a friend that is witnessing in that field so I could keep a brotherly check on their welfare.

 

[quietpraiyze]

Well, we can accept the person but can't accept their behaviour, or be supportive of it in any way.

I guess some Christians fear that if they have a relationship of any kind with a homosexual, they are being, or will seem to be, supportive of behaviour that is abominable to God, and therefore may be inadvertently offending Him. They may also fear being tempted into that sin, or being complicit in tempting another to sin.

Christians have to protect their household and Christian family first and foremost, and witness to the unsaved as opportunities present, but always guarding themselves from being drawn off by the evil one.

It's fantastic that you have made yourself available to God for Him to use you that way, praise God. But it is a unique ministry, and a mission field I wouldn't normally recommend an individual be exposed to by themselves, and I would keep close watch over a friend that is witnessing in that field so I could keep a brotherly check on their welfare.

I definitely see that there is a fear involved and maybe it has to do with not understanding, but I didn't and still don't understand a majority of that lifestyle. I don't think we have to understand any particular sin. That's not a prerequisite for not being cruel and ugly to non-Christians and that's what homosexuals are to me. They're like everybody else who doesn't know the Lord. Like I said, they don't get some kind of special status with me. I don't know why that's so hard for some "christians" to understand. I don't play "pick a sin". Is adultery, fornication, lying, idolatry, etc. really better than homosexuality...I mean are they really? Maybe Jesus eating and drinking with all those sinners and wine-bibbers doesn't really ring a bell or register with some who say they're Christian.

What I can understand is if a person got saved out of the particular sin of homosexuality how being back around homosexuals or those who encourage the behavior could be a real temptation or even danger for them. So I understand them needing to guard themselves and I would agree with that but this holds true for any sin God has delivered us out of. As a heterosexual who was dealing with the opposite sex, there was no temptation, especially since I held the reins of the relationship through Christ. I just lived my life in Christ, and he got to experience that as well as other Christians who were in my life. That's another thing, it's like so many of you don't seem to grasp that as a Christian, I had other Christians in my life. So I wasn't going this alone. God had me well insulated.

I honestly don't think he personally knew any Christians prior. So just doing what God asked me to do which was to allow this gay man into my life was all I did. In truth I didn't even really think about it because to me it wasn't a big deal but it was to this man. He got to see Christian lives up close and personal. We were just living our everyday lives in Christ. He got to see us in our struggles as well as the way we held to Christ. I think that made all the difference for him because nobody was a caricature or a stereotype which was the way he viewed Christians.

For me it's not a unique ministry at all and I don't think you really understand that because of how you view the sin of homosexuality. I've worked with all kinds of different populations, from sex workers to homeless and many others. I think there are some "christians" who have spiritualized their bigotry/biases, thinking that God feels the same way and that they're pleasing Him but are they really or have they become a stumbling block to those who are lost and desperately need Christ?

 

[bèlla]

In truth I didn't even really think about it because to me it wasn't a big deal but it was to this man. He got to see Christian lives up close and personal. We were just living our everyday lives in Christ. He got to see us in our struggles as well as the way we held to Christ. I think that made all the difference for him because nobody was a caricature or a stereotype which was the way he viewed Christians.

quietpraiyze,

I've had similar experiences and spent several years ministering to someone I knew who was hostile to Christianity. He was raised Catholic but something changed. There was a time when he openly made jokes about Christ and visibly displayed his contempt for the church. But that changed when we reconnected. He knew me before I returned to God and afterward and had an opportunity to see me live out my beliefs up close. Including the moments when our imperfections required apologies and forgiveness.

I labored for his salvation and my friends joined in as did many ministries I supported. He began to change and softened a lot. I've witnessed differences in his character and lifestyle. The passion God laid on his heart came out in droves and he's moving in that direction and standing against the lies about men and working on a book. If my presence contributed a morsel of difference I'm glad. I saw a need and went back to help once the Lord set me free.

There were some who disagreed and felt I shouldn't assist him. They felt my time was better spent finding a spouse! Everything I learned through that experience prepared me for the battles I'd face later on. It was my training ground naturally and spiritually so. God rewarded my sacrifice many times over.

And have mercy on those who doubt; save others by snatching them out of the fire. —Jude 1:22-23

Yours in His Service,

~Bella

 

[Tony B]

I definitely see that there is a fear involved and maybe it has to do with not understanding, but I didn't and still don't understand a majority of that lifestyle. I don't think we have to understand any particular sin. That's not a prerequisite for not being cruel and ugly to non-Christians and that's what homosexuals are to me. They're like everybody else who doesn't know the Lord. Like I said, they don't get some kind of special status with me. I don't know why that's so hard for some "christians" to understand. I don't play "pick a sin". Is adultery, fornication, lying, idolatry, etc. really better than homosexuality...I mean are they really? Maybe Jesus eating and drinking with all those sinners and wine-bibbers doesn't really ring a bell or register with some who say they're Christian.

What I can understand is if a person got saved out of the particular sin of homosexuality how being back around homosexuals or those who encourage the behavior could be a real temptation or even danger for them. So I understand them needing to guard themselves and I would agree with that but this holds true for any sin God has delivered us out of. As a heterosexual who was dealing with the opposite sex, there was no temptation, especially since I held the reins of the relationship through Christ. I just lived my life in Christ, and he got to experience that as well as other Christians who were in my life. That's another thing, it's like so many of you don't seem to grasp that as a Christian, I had other Christians in my life. So I wasn't going this alone. God had me well insulated.

I honestly don't think he personally knew any Christians prior. So just doing what God asked me to do which was to allow this gay man into my life was all I did. In truth I didn't even really think about it because to me it wasn't a big deal but it was to this man. He got to see Christian lives up close and personal. We were just living our everyday lives in Christ. He got to see us in our struggles as well as the way we held to Christ. I think that made all the difference for him because nobody was a caricature or a stereotype.

For me it's not a unique ministry at all and I don't think you really understand that because of how you view the sin of homosexuality. I've worked with all kinds of different populations, from sex workers to homeless and many others. I think there are some "christians" who have spiritualized their bigotry/biases, thinking that God feels the same way and that they're pleasing Him but are they really or have they become a stumbling block to those who are lost and desperately need Christ?

I'm wondering if you might be viewing Christians as falling short without knowing why and what people are thinking...ie what's motivating them.

Many of us have been in amongst people struggling with the afflictions you mentioned...but we choose not to judge others just because they may not do what we do or have done to help those struggling with the complaint, but we will give praise for those that God has put out there to minister.

My reply post was not so much directed at yourself, but rather at anyone viewing your post that is not as strong as you, and who may get a feeling of guilt or a desire to reach out, and that might unwisely put themselves into a ministry they are not equipped for, and be at risk of being persuaded into sin/drawn off by the evil one.

It's wise for Christians to test everything, to determine if what is before them is either good or evil. That's common sense, and good for self preservation.

The biggest concern I have, is that there may not be a fellowship for repentant homosexuals to go to, where they will be protected and cared for, and nurtured in God's ways. I personally am unaware of any church group that will do that effectively....I'm not saying they aren't out there, but the groups I've encountered would struggle.

Thank you for sharing.

 

[quietpraiyze]

I've observed down through the years (35+) so many “christians” be self righteous and just plain nasty when it comes to homosexuality. My issue isn't about whether or not a Christian can or can't minister to homosexuals. My issue is about the nasty attitude some “christians” have displayed to homosexuals because they feel they have a right to. It's like some “christians” have forgotten that they were once lost, in need of the Savior, and what all God saved them out of.

Who would any of us be without Jesus? If what I'm saying makes some “christians” feel bad because this is how they've been treating homosexuals then they should get alone with God, repent, and allow Him to correct the behavior. Doing so doesn't mean that they'll go out and evangelize to the lost including homosexuals but they won't make it harder for those who do. I also know that for some Christians, their work in the Lord is on their knees. It's just that no one can convince me that you can love God and hate those who are lost.

Well I'd like to say to anyone who may be reading this thread and may want to work with the Lord in reaching out to the lost, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with being strong. Any work we do for the Lord is because of the Holy Spirit in us and through us. That's why God gets all the glory. It's not us, it's Him. There is only one ministry and that is the ministry of The Lord Jesus Christ. Some people may not agree or understand this but only the Holy Spirit can teach you the ministry of Jesus Christ. He is the one that will lead and guide you into all Truth. He's the one that unlocks the WORD. He will also give you mature saints that can share their walk with you and be available to answer some questions you may have.

I think our part is being available and willing. Like I said, the Lord ask me to do something and I did it because it wasn't a big deal to me. I wasn't trembling behind some homosexual because to me they're just people who are part of the lost. So what I shared was one example. There are many others out there. There are all kinds of ways to reach out to the lost. You can easily “speak life” online and maintain your anonymity and safety. Just remember as Born Again Holy Ghost Filled Christians, we don't live in fear. We walk by faith knowing not just who we are but WHOSE we are.

Personally I don't think a majority of what God has for His people can be obtained in institutional religion. So I'm not surprised that many “churches” don't know how to allow the Holy Spirit to heal and transform those coming out of homosexuality. I believe it's not by might, not by power but by His Spirit. I also believe Christians who are in real relationship with one another as God intended have a part in this process as well...

 

[Tony B]

I've observed down through the years (35+) so many “christians” be self righteous and just plain nasty when it comes to homosexuality. My issue isn't about whether or not a Christian can or can't minister to homosexuals. My issue is about the nasty attitude some “christians” have displayed to homosexuals because they feel they have a right to. It's like some “christians” have forgotten that they were once lost, in need of the Savior, and what all God saved them out of.

Who would any of us be without Jesus? If what I'm saying makes some “christians” feel bad because this is how they've been treating homosexuals then they should get alone with God, repent, and allow Him to correct the behavior. Doing so doesn't mean that they'll go out and evangelize to the lost including homosexuals but they won't make it harder for those who do. I also know that for some Christians, their work in the Lord is on their knees. It's just that no one can convince me that you can love God and hate those who are lost.

Well I'd like to say to anyone who may be reading this thread and may want to work with the Lord in reaching out to the lost, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with being strong. Any work we do for the Lord is because of the Holy Spirit in us and through us. That's why God gets all the glory. It's not us, it's Him. There is only one ministry and that is the ministry of The Lord Jesus Christ. Some people may not agree or understand this but only the Holy Spirit can teach you the ministry of Jesus Christ. He is the one that will lead and guide you into all Truth. He's the one that unlocks the WORD. He will also give you mature saints that can share their walk with you and be available to answer some questions you may have.

I think our part is being available and willing. Like I said, the Lord ask me to do something and I did it because it wasn't a big deal to me. I wasn't trembling behind some homosexual because to me they're just people who are part of the lost. So what I shared was one example. There are many others out there. There are all kinds of ways to reach out to the lost. You can easily “speak life” online and maintain your anonymity and safety. Just remember as Born Again Holy Ghost Filled Christians, we don't live in fear. We walk by faith knowing not just who we are but WHOSE we are.

Personally I don't think a majority of what God has for His people can be obtained in institutional religion. So I'm not surprised that many “churches” don't know how to allow the Holy Spirit to heal and transform those coming out of homosexuality. I believe it's not by might, not by power but by His Spirit. I also believe Christians who are in real relationship with one another as God intended have a part in this process as well...

The comment about being strong is about strength of faith. I've been in situations where it would have been terribly irresponsible of me to bring a new Christian or one that is weak in their faith along with me.

I can understand your anger at the institutionalised churches, but I have visited some of those in the past and have witnessed their outreaches into red light districts and drug havens. I think it is unfair to accuse anyone without getting their side of the story.

I will agree though, that traditional church groups, and their preformatted meeting style, are generally ill-prepared to monitor and care for a converted homosexual.

A difficulty Christians are confronted with now, is that our stupid legislators have made homosexual relationships legitimate, and have even approved of them raising children which is also a despicable thing. They have made it almost impossible for Christians to reach out and witness to homosexuals any more, because society has declared that their behaviour is ok.

We shouldn't blame Christians so much, but rather blame those legislators and do gooders in society that are bringing destruction upon it through their ignorance and ungodly decisions, and some of those claim to be Christian but in truth are being anti-Christian and pro evil.

We should always be prepared to give forth the hope that is within us, no matter who presents or asks.

 

[quietpraiyze]

The comment about being strong is about strength of faith. I've been in situations where it would have been terribly irresponsible of me to bring a new Christian or one that is weak in their faith along with me.

I can understand your anger at the institutionalised churches, but I have visited some of those in the past and have witnessed their outreaches into red light districts and drug havens. I think it is unfair to accuse anyone without getting their side of the story.

I will agree though, that traditional church groups, and their preformatted meeting style, are generally ill-prepared to monitor and care for a converted homosexual.

A difficulty Christians are confronted with now, is that our stupid legislators have made homosexual relationships legitimate, and have even approved of them raising children
which is also a despicable thing. They have made it almost impossible for Christians to reach out and witness to homosexuals any more, because society has declared that their behaviour is ok.

We shouldn't blame Christians so much, but rather blame those legislators and do gooders in society that are bringing destruction upon it through their ignorance and ungodly decisions, and some of those claim to be Christian but in truth are being anti-Christian and pro evil.

We should always be prepared to give forth the hope that is within us, no matter who presents or asks.

Hmmmm....okaaaay....I'm not quite sure what has happened here with your post but I'll address it anyway....

Can you please explain what you mean by “strong faith” or “weak faith” ? I'm not sure if it's just a matter of semantics or not. Also what would you be doing for the Lord that you couldn't involve baby Christians? What kind of “situations” are you talking about? Also I just noticed that you're Australian, so I don't know if there is some kind of cultural something that's not translating. I really don't know.

In my post #516 I said, "Personally I don't think a majority of what God has for His people can be obtained in institutional religion. So I'm not surprised that many “churches” don't know how to allow the Holy Spirit to heal and transform those coming out of homosexuality".

In your post #515 you said, "The biggest concern I have, is that there may not be a fellowship for repentant homosexuals to go to, where they will be protected and cared for, and nurtured in God's ways. I personally am unaware of any church group that will do that effectively....I'm not saying they aren't out there, but the groups I've encountered would struggle".

I went to the House Churches & Cell Groups Forum to see if someone had posted a question I've been thinking about since the pandemic here in the US. Once in the Forum I noticed a thread titled, Does going to an institutionalized church actually hinder our relationship with Christ? So thus my question, do institutionalized churches actually hinder our walk with Christ? Because no real discipleship can happen and people look to the pastor for leadership and guidance instead of the Holy Spirit. Your response in post #18 in that thread was "Yes".

In your post #517 you stated, "I can understand your anger at the institutionalised churches, but I have visited some of those in the past and have witnessed their outreaches into red light districts and drug havens. I think it is unfair to accuse anyone without getting their side of the story".

What are you talking about here? What anger? This is not true. What is the difference between what you've said, another poster that you agreed with said, and what I said? What are you “accusing” me of saying that you and the other poster didn't say? I feel that you were somehow offended by what I said but I'm not understanding why, especially considering your former post as stated.

I don't know if you needed me to clarify what I stated and if so, all you had to do was ask. I would have gladly done that for you. Instead I feel that you assumed something I never felt or said and then you go on to accuse me as if I did.

While I stay up on current events, I don't go down political “rabbit holes” because I think they're a distraction and a work of the enemy. Jesus ministry as the Son of man as you know was right in the middle of the Roman Empire. Really think about that. I also don't play “pick a sin” because people can change a behavior and still bust hell wide open. You know as well as I do, we must all be Born Again.

I'm not really sure what happened in your post #517. I'm a person who likes having conversations. I'm concerned that maybe this conversation is no longer good for you...Selah.

 

[Tony B]

Hmmmm....okaaaay....I'm not quite sure what has happened here with your post but I'll address it anyway....

Can you please explain what you mean by “strong faith” or “weak faith” ? I'm not sure if it's just a matter of semantics or not. Also what would you be doing for the Lord that you couldn't involve baby Christians? What kind of “situations” are you talking about? Also I just noticed that you're Australian, so I don't know if there is some kind of cultural something that's not translating. I really don't know.

In my post #516 I said, "Personally I don't think a majority of what God has for His people can be obtained in institutional religion. So I'm not surprised that many “churches” don't know how to allow the Holy Spirit to heal and transform those coming out of homosexuality".

In your post #515 you said, "The biggest concern I have, is that there may not be a fellowship for repentant homosexuals to go to, where they will be protected and cared for, and nurtured in God's ways. I personally am unaware of any church group that will do that effectively....I'm not saying they aren't out there, but the groups I've encountered would struggle".

I went to the House Churches & Cell Groups Forum to see if someone had posted a question I've been thinking about since the pandemic here in the US. Once in the Forum I noticed a thread titled, Does going to an institutionalized church actually hinder our relationship with Christ? So thus my question, do institutionalized churches actually hinder our walk with Christ? Because no real discipleship can happen and people look to the pastor for leadership and guidance instead of the Holy Spirit. Your response in post #18 in that thread was "Yes".

In your post #517 you stated, "I can understand your anger at the institutionalised churches, but I have visited some of those in the past and have witnessed their outreaches into red light districts and drug havens. I think it is unfair to accuse anyone without getting their side of the story".

What are you talking about here? What anger? This is not true. What is the difference between what you've said, another poster that you agreed with said, and what I said? What are you “accusing” me of saying that you and the other poster didn't say? I feel that you were somehow offended by what I said but I'm not understanding why, especially considering your former post as stated.

I don't know if you needed me to clarify what I stated and if so, all you had to do was ask. I would have gladly done that for you. Instead I feel that you assumed something I never felt or said and then you go on to accuse me as if I did.

While I stay up on current events, I don't go down political “rabbit holes” because I think they're a distraction and a work of the enemy. Jesus ministry as the Son of man as you know was right in the middle of the Roman Empire. Really think about that. I also don't play “pick a sin” because people can change a behavior and still bust hell wide open. You know as well as I do, we must all be Born Again.

I'm not really sure what happened in your post #517. I'm a person who likes having conversations. I'm concerned that maybe this conversation is no longer good for you...Selah.

Maybe I misinterpreted your venting as being due to anger, and I apologise if I did, perhaps it was more about you venting your frustration then?

The motivation behind my posts have been to make sure another reader of your posts doesn’t accidentally misunderstand what you saying, and get the impression that it’s ok to be gay or for a Christian to have a platonic relationship with anyone caught up in that affliction, which of course it isn’t. The same advice is sound in respect of relationships with unrepentant murderers, rapists, thieves, adulterers etc.

I think the telling instruction from God is: “Therefore, come out from among unbelievers, and separate yourselves from them, says the LORD. Don’t touch their filthy things, and I will welcome you.”

Scripture also warns us that continued close association with ungodly people will cause our newly acquired godly ways to become compromised and corrupted.

In respect of weak versus strong faith, someone weak in faith might misunderstand any platonic relationship I might have with a homosexual person as my giving the behaviour a nod of approval, and start a similar relationship, or continue in one with a homosexual, and because of that believer‘s spiritual weakness (lack of understanding of God’s ways) or poor self controL, be drawn into sin. I’m careful that I won’t be party to that!

 

[quietpraiyze]

Maybe I misinterpreted your venting as being due to anger, and I apologise if I did, perhaps it was more about you venting your frustration then?

The motivation behind my posts have been to make sure another reader of your posts doesn’t accidentally misunderstand what you saying, and get the impression that it’s ok to be gay or for a Christian to have a platonic relationship with anyone caught up in that affliction, which of course it isn’t. The same advice is sound in respect of relationships with unrepentant murderers, rapists, thieves, adulterers etc.

I think the telling instruction from God is: “Therefore, come out from among unbelievers, and separate yourselves from them, says the LORD. Don’t touch their filthy things, and I will welcome you.”

Scripture also warns us that continued close association with ungodly people will cause our newly acquired godly ways to become compromised and corrupted.

In respect of weak versus strong faith, someone weak in faith might misunderstand any platonic relationship I might have with a homosexual person as my giving the behaviour a nod of approval, and start a similar relationship, or continue in one with a homosexual, and because of that believer‘s spiritual weakness (lack of understanding of God’s ways) or poor self controL, be drawn into sin. I’m careful that I won’t be party to that!

No one would be getting an “accidental misunderstanding” or an “impression” that I'm saying being gay is okay from any of my words and no one ever has. No, that's just you lying out of the abundance of your heart and projecting on to my post. So let me make it clear for you.

I am not pro-homosexuality and never have been. Not only is it against the TOS rules of this site to encourage homosexuality, but most importantly it is sin and against the Godhead – The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit. That is where I stand. For you to suggest someone could read my post and get the opposite of this is a really vicious seed to sow that you alone will reap the harvest of and now have to give an account to the Lord for. Your motivation is corrupt when it leads you to bear false witness and lie.

In saying I'm promoting platonic relationships with homosexuals is oversimplifying and dishonest. Jesus ate and drank publicly with sinners on a regular basis. He even went into their homes with His disciples in tow. So being around sinners isn't the issue and neither are baby Christians or “weak” Christians. Gay people are coming to Christ through the lives of Christians and you don't like the way it's being done.

This is about how you personally feel about homosexuals and it has nothing to do with God or anyone else. The Scriptures you cherry picked exposed that all the more so. By your own admission, it is good that you stay as far away from homosexuals as you possibly can and other sinners too. I agree with you. That way you won't transfer how you feel, misrepresenting Christ and slander His Name to people who really need Him or to baby Christians who are learning Him. Looks like a win win all the way around. God is Love and Truth.

I don't have a problem with someone disagreeing with me but that's not what you did. Instead you deliberately tried to twist the intent of my words into a lie and that is really ugly. I stand by all my post with my intent present before the Lord. We don't need to talk any further and please refrain from ever addressing any of my post in the future. The strange thing is without knowing it or meaning to, you demonstrated the kind of “christian” I was venting about and you proved my point.