Whatever happened to Free enterprise

[mac_philo]

Well, I have a lot of libertarian leanings, and I occasionally smoke, so I'm sympathetic to you.

However, there can be a reasonable, non-communal argument for such a ban. All of these businesses require workers who may be exposed to secondhand smoke. It's all well and good to say that they can choose to work at a smoke free business, but let's face it--some people will be forced to work in smoky environments. Also, _more_ non-smoking customers will be exposed to smoke without the ban. Also, smoking seems more socially acceptable without the ban.

Now, when someone without decent insurance gets sick, the taxpayer foots the bill. So it's a rather simple matter to argue that taxpayer interest alone dictates that the ban should be enacted, since it is absurd for taxpayers to allow public consumption of a deadly poison when, in the end, it costs the taxpayers a great deal of money.

I still oppose the ban, but I guess I'm less cynical than you about the arguments in its favor. It certainly is contrary to the principles of free enterprise, but so are thousands and thousands of other laws. That alone can't win the argument.

 

[Annabel Lee]

We've had a ban on smoking in restaurants and bars for years in California. After a while everyone accepted it. Like anything else it just takes getting used to.

 

[Gerry]

I hate to be the one to point this out, but the founding fathers of this country are long dead! This is NOT the country they founded and we will never see that country again.

May I remind you that our fathers set the penalty for treason at DEATH! But in today's America we elect traitor's to the Presidency and four years later we re-elect them. Then if the constitution was furthur amended, we would elect them for a third time.

Freedom? Freedom is an illusion. Our "freedom" is legislated.

 

[Brimshack]

Hmm, I actually agree with both Gunny and Gerry about something.

On the smoking ban I would also add that many of the recent successes in opposing the tobacco lobby are due to the fact that industry insiders have testified to the fact that tobacco companies have deliberately enhanced the addictive qualities of cigarretts and employed marketing strategies deliberately aimed at teenagers. The strategy was quite literally to get people hooked when they are young and irresponsible, and then ensure that their bodies would prevent contrary decisions as they aged. (I shouldn't need to mention campaigns to obscure scientific research proving the medical hazards of tobacco.) These guys are the moral equivalent of drug dealers, so it hardly seems unusual to deny them unrestricted access to a free market. Whether or not this particular law is effective or fair is another question.

 

[Susan]

*cough, cough, cough*

Someone turn on a fan or something

Seriously IMHO, the non-smoker's right to breathe (a natural and absolutely necessary action) takes priority over the smoker's right to smoke (an unnecessary use of a dangerous drug)

 

[coastie]

alright well this is getting off topic but I have a funny story for you.

I enjoy an occassional cigar when I'm out with friends. I used to smoke cigarettes but quit a few years ago (it was my "BIG" rebellion when I was still into that sort of thing).

Anyway, so I was having a cigar with some friends at the Montral jazz festival and some woman comes walking by and goes into this huge exhaggerated coughing fit and tells me how rude I am to smoke in a public place and that I am robbing her of her well-deserved oxygen (she was yelling at me in french so my wife had to translate for me).

I said that my firends and I had moved away from the crowded area so that we wouldn't be bothering anyone and that if she really didn't like it she shoudln't stand next to me. She just huffed and walked away. ARGH!!

Some people would just be better off if they were alone on this planet with no one else to "impose" on their "rights".

 

[Gerry]

i also find it rather amusing that no-one gives Carter any credit for running a comparatively decent presidency.

Jimmy Carter? Sure! He was the best dang President Egypt ever had!!! No, actually I preferred Sadat!

I wore a Black Arm band the entire 4 years of his presidency! Whew. Was I glad to get rid of that thing!!!

 

[Gunny]

Originally posted by Gerry

Whew. Was I glad to get rid of that thing!!!

That thing, Jimmy Carter professes to be a Christian. Personally, I have never voted for a democratc president.

I didn't like Carter's politics and he was very inept in leadership qualities but "that thing" is my fellow Christian Brother.


GySgt James

 

[Gerry]

Well you are as inept a reader as your friend. THAT THING IS A BLACK ARMBAND.....THAT IS YOUR BROTHER?????

UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU READ BEFORE YOU TAKE AN ATTITUDE WITH ME.

I am SUPPOSED to be your brother. But you dont act like that in my book GUNNYSGT!

 

[Gunny]

Originally posted by Gerry
Well you are as inept a reader as your friend. THAT THING IS A BLACK ARMBAND.....THAT IS YOUR BROTHER?????

UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU READ BEFORE YOU TAKE AN ATTITUDE WITH ME.

I am SUPPOSED to be your brother. But you dont act like that in my book GUNNYSGT!

Well Gerry, what your book has to say regarding of me matters for not.

I am not a man pleaser.

If I misunderstood your post then I apologize for doing so.


GySgt James

 

[Gerry]

"IF" you misread??? I see. So you are like your friend after all. A deaf ear to facts. The facts are what YOU say they are! WOW!

You don't owe me an apology or anything else. And for you information I owe you nothing! I have my own Purple Heart thank You!

 

[Gunny]

Originally posted by Gerry
"IF" you misread??? I see. So you are like your friend after all. A deaf ear to facts. The facts are what YOU say they are! WOW!

You don't owe me an apology or anything else. And for you information I owe you nothing! I have my own Purple Heart thank You!

Gerry, I apologize for offending you as a fellow Christian. Once again I misunderstood what you posted regarding Jimmy Carter.

I have always respected Jimmy Carter for I believe that he was a good Christan man just like me, Not Perfect-Just Forgiven.

GySgt James

 

[Brimshack]

Hey guys! I'm the local heathen, lol, you're supposed to be arguing with me. I wasn't exactly trying to endorse Carter's whole presidency either. I was just saying that few people give him credit for the comparatively honest tone of his presidency, and I was pleasantly surprised to find that Gunny seems prepared to do that. But the proper battle lines have been disrupted here. Perhaps I can restore them with another jab at Reagan. The man feathered his political nest by enthusistically participating in the McCarthy hearings. He helped to destroy the career of many of his fellow actors. And yet, we are supposed to believe he stood for moral decency. Not in my book. There we go, I stand ready to field your objections.

I am even more suprrised to find that I agree with Susan on something. In fact I am just floored by the shock.

Hi Coastie (cough, cough), will you put that darn thing out, you bad man! …Sheesh! (Cutting the other way, I once read an interesting study of an anti-smokinjg ordinance in Northern California. The ordinance covered al public settings, but in this particular community they only enforced it in the restaraunts whereas people continued to smoke in the bars. The author concluded that the ban supporters had been more interested in asserting their own moral superiority over the smokers than in actually changing people's behaviors. Interesting.) I ASKED YOU TO PUT THAT THING OUT!

 

[Gunny]

Originally posted by Brimshack
Perhaps I can restore them with another jab at Reagan. The man feathered his political nest by enthusistically participating in the McCarthy hearings. He helped to destroy the career of many of his fellow actors. And yet, we are supposed to believe he stood for moral decency. Not in my book. There we go, I stand ready to field your objections.

The McCarthy hearings were a fiasco and many individuals jumped on the red scare band wagon.

I liked Reagan because he is a conservative and he brought a much needed rally call to conservatives.

GySgt James

 

[Job_38]

Reagen won the Cold War. During his time he did alot of good. But about Democrats, I do have some I like. JFK, Johnson. JFK created the Special Forces aka Green Berets and without Johnson who knows what would have happened with the Civil Rights without him.

McCarthy was an idiot, I'll give that. But he was right. Read the book Radical Son, it is a biography of a former 60's radical named David Horowitz who is now one of the biggest conservetives I have seen. Check his website

Frontpagemag.com

 

[coastie]

Hi Coastie (cough, cough), will you put that darn thing out, you bad man! …Sheesh! (Cutting the other way, I once read an interesting study of an anti-smokinjg ordinance in Northern California. The ordinance covered al public settings, but in this particular community they only enforced it in the restaraunts whereas people continued to smoke in the bars. The author concluded that the ban supporters had been more interested in asserting their own moral superiority over the smokers than in actually changing people's behaviors. Interesting.) I ASKED YOU TO PUT THAT THING OUT!

Oh yeah, the moral high ground card!

Well, I don't think that complainers should be allowed in public! Maybe we need a new ammendment that states an individuals right to breath toxic air.

 

[Brimshack]

I'm just curious as to what McCarthy was right about?

 

[Susan]

*not hacking, but coughing* LOL

 

[coastie]

HEY!!!

WEAR A FILTER OR SOMETHING!!!

 

[Brimshack]

Well, I NEVER!! Let's go somewhere else Susan; somewhere we won't be bothered by the smoke demons, …HARRUMPH!!