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For sure, everyone needs a day off once a week. That's the end of it.
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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
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Hebrews 4:11
Therefore, while the promise of entering His rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be deemed to have fallen short of it
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(CLV) Hb 10:28
Anyone repudiating Moses' law is dying without pity on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
(CLV) Hb 10:29
Of how much worse punishment, are you supposing, will he be counted worthy who tramples on the Son of God, and deems the blood of the covenant by which he is hallowed contaminating, and outrages the spirit of grace?
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(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.
(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, [Yahshua] answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
(CLV) Num 15:15
As for the assembly, there shall be one statute for you and for the sojourner sojourning with you. It shall be an eonian statute throughout your generations. Like you so shall the sojourner be before Yahweh.
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- Mar 4, 2005
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Yes, house of Israel.
I am not "sojourning with them"; I am with Jesus, in Jesus and a new creation because of Jesus.
Jesus is the Messiah; the Jews, his own people, rejected him, John 1:11.
I am a Christian.
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section9+1
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He was innocent, without guilt, never broke a law of God in His life. He never broke the Sabbath but explained it to those who had burden the law with traditional fences that took the heart and love out of the law.
Luke 13:15
The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and lead him away to watering?
Luke 14:5
And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day?
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Yeshua didn't invent a new religion. He came to rescue the religion He gave on Mount Sinai, transform it from stone to heart of His followers. It is the same faith, just clarified.
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The Scribes and Pharisees had developed traditions through many years that had taken what God told the people about behaviors and principles and had transformed them into accomplishing a different goal. For example, Yeshua shows them this when He explained, in my paraphrasing, God said to honor your parents. (Think "honorarium," as in taking care of parents.) BUT YOU say if a man says that what I was going to give you, parents, I have chosen to dedicate it to God, you have made the law of God to no effect. So in this case, God intended people to care for their families, and through the years people who agreed to a different philosophy came along and effectively wiped this one out in the name of religious observation.
You'll note that the Scribes and Pharisees had done the same thing about the Sabbath observation. They had set up check boxes that didn't line up with God's intention. Yeshua pointed this out to them. If they had a child or a sheep that fell into a hole, wouldn't they pull out the victim? Was it appropriate to do good or evil on the Sabbath? Jesus asked. To heal or to refuse to heal? His statements didn't annul the Sabbath, only the religious misconstrued mess that the system had made of God's simple command. The women rested on the Sabbath even knowing the body of Yeshua was waiting anointing, but that anointing process obviously wasn't an ox-in-the-ditch situation Even today people constantly want a check-box method of "am I keeping the Sabbath the right way," when what God wants is relationship.
The leadership in the days of Yeshua were influential, gatekeepers as it were for the words of God. They far overstretched their assigned place and used the situation to draw followers into bands of thought. Yeshua correctly and appropriately pointed this out to them. They hated Him for it too. They weren't of God. God loves His people and loves mercy. They loved power over people, putting heavy burdens on them and never offering to help, much like Congress today, not identifying and living the life they are legislating to others. That kind of law was not what God intended. Yeshua set the record straight by living God's law right in front of them.
But in all things, I suggest that you not just take anyone's word for this - believe what God says. You can trust Him and He doesn't change.
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section9+1
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Greengardener you tell me to believe what God has said and he said in John 5 that Jesus broke the Sabbath. The Pharisees also accused him of making himself equal with God. They didn't like those things, but it doesn't say they were mistaken in their accusations. When confronted he didn't deny it but even admitted it.
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18 For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God
In their view He was sinning. But in fact we know that he was not sinning - he was transgressing their opinions and made up rules.
Jesus never agreed with their made up rules.
Jesus said they had "condemned the innocent" when they falsely accused him and his disciples.
Matt 12:7 But if you had known what this means, ‘I desire compassion, and not a sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the innocent.
In John 5 Jesus said it was THEY who were transgressing the LAW of Moses -- and not Him, instead of saying "yep I live in rebellion against the Word of God just as you say".
John 5
44 How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and you do not seek the glory that is from the one and only God? 45 Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father; the one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have set your hope. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?
Jesus always claimed to be in harmony with scripture - his enemies always claimed he was a sinner.
John 9:24 So a second time they called the man who had been blind, and said to him, “Give glory to God; we know that this man is a sinner.”
I say we do not join the enemies of Christ in claiming He lived in rebellion against the Word of God - the Law of Moses when in fact Jesus said it was his accusers that were doing that.
Mark 7:6-13
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”
instead of "pay no attention to the word of God" as we can all see.
Matt 19
if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said,
“You shall not commit murder; Ex 20
You shall not commit adultery; Ex 20
You shall not steal; Ex 20
You shall not bear false witness; Ex 20
19 Honor your father and mother; Ex 20:12
and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Lev 19:18
All from the LAW of Moses instead of "pay no attention to the word of God"
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Scott Husted
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In present day Israel they only partially keep it, some do, some don't, and some almost do which for Israel as a whole nation from its beginning and even when they were divided was more the overall norm, not really understanding for the most part the continual inward truth it represented.
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What is your point? Native Hebrew speaking Jewish scholars translated "olam" as "for ever" NOT "age(s)" Just for grins find "olam" for me in the Hebrew quoted above.
They may employ native Hebrew speaking Jewish scholars but if their translations differ from the JPS they must show cause. Many of the versions you quoted are by one person none of whom are native Hebrew speakers.
Since native Hebrew speaking Jewish scholars translate "olam" as "for ever" that supports my conclusion that where "olam" is used for things which cannot be "eternal" it is being used hyperbolically.
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Who are you a disciple of?
Jesus is our Sabbath. Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath. How can the Lord of the Sabbath break the Sabbath? Jesus broke the faulty interpretation of the Sabbath of the Jewish leaders as He explained to them.
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(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, [Yahshua] answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
Israel is the exception. Yahshua was commissioned for no other. If you reject Israel; you reject Messiah. Welcome to Israel!
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You're talking about the land. The land is not Israel. the land is the land of Israel.
Exodus 31
12 YAHWEH said to Moshe, 13 Tell the people of Isra’el, ‘You are to observe my Shabbats; for this is a sign between me and you through all your generations; so that you will know that I am YAHWEH, who sets you apart for me. 17 It is a sign between me and the people of Isra’el forever; for in six days ADONAI made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day he stopped working and rested.’
(CLV) Ex 31:14
Hence you will keep the sabbath, for it is holy to you. Profaners of it shall be put to death, yea death, for if anyone is doing work in it, that soul will be cut off from among his people.
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So why did you bring up all of that convoluted chaos in response to my statement that the Sabbath is forever?
I'm proficient at reading Hebrew. I've read it in the synagogues. I'm not one to pull dishonest tactics to defend false doctrine. Ayin Lamed Mem.
Just for grins would you name the niqqud for l-olm?
I'm still trying to figure out why your throwing up this smokescreen; when my initial post agrees with the JPS. You posted some cryptic convoluted dissertation about the meaning of olam; and I came back with 23 translations, including the JPS, which agreed with the OP. You continued to sow seeds of doubt, so I gave tou the JPS version specifically, along with the Hebrew; and now you turn that into a Hebrew test.
How about we just make the clear one more time.
SABBATH IS FOREVER!
It's a sign between YHWH and his people FOREVER!
Those who break sabbath will be cut off.
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solid_core
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Why do you teach something neither Jesus nor the apostles taught?
Are you a Christian or an Old Testament Jew?
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