Whatever Happened to Forever?

[Der Alte]

So why did you bring up all of that convoluted chaos in response to my statement that the Sabbath is forever?
I'm proficient at reading Hebrew. I've read it in the synagogues. I'm not one to pull dishonest tactics to defend false doctrine. Ayin Lamed Mem.
Just for grins would you name the niqqud for l-olm?
I'm still trying to figure out why your throwing up this smokescreen; when my initial post agrees with the JPS. You posted some cryptic convoluted dissertation about the meaning of olam; and I came back with 23 translations, including the JPS, which agreed with the OP. You continued to sow seeds of doubt, so I gave tou the JPS version specifically, along with the Hebrew; and now you turn that into a Hebrew test.
How about we just make the clear one more time.
SABBATH IS FOREVER!
It's a sign between YHWH and his people FOREVER!
Those who break sabbath will be cut off.

You were not clear what you were doing or why you were doing it. I thought you were trying to prove that "olam" does not mean "forever, eternal etc"
עוֹלָם
The Sabbath was given exclusively to the Israelites.

Exodus 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
Leviticus 24:8 Every sabbath he shall set it in order before the LORD continually, being taken from the children of Israel by an everlasting covenant.​

Jesus is my Sabbath

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.[שׁבת]
Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest [שׁבת] unto your souls.​

 

[HARK!]

Why do you teach something neither Jesus nor the apostles taught?

Are you a Christian or an Old Testament Jew?

Was Yahshua a Christian or an Old Testament Jew?

Matthew 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Luke 4:4
And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Where is this written?

(CLV) Dt 8:2
And you will remember all the way which Yahweh your Elohim caused you to go these forty years in the wilderness, that He might make you humble, to probe you so as to know what is in your heart, whether or not you shall observe His instructions.

(CLV) Dt 8:3
So He made you humble and let you hunger; then He fed you with the manna which neither you had known, nor had your fathers known, that He might make you realize that not on bread it alone shall the human live, for by every utterance from the mouth of Yahweh shall the human live.

 

[HARK!]

You were not clear what you were doing or why you were doing it. I thought you were trying to prove that "olam" does not mean "forever, eternal etc"

LOL!

 

[Scott Husted]

You're talking about the land. The land is not Israel. the land is the land of Israel.


Exodus 31
12 YAHWEH said to Moshe, 13 Tell the people of Isra’el, ‘You are to observe my Shabbats; for this is a sign between me and you through all your generations; so that you will know that I am YAHWEH, who sets you apart for me. 17 It is a sign between me and the people of Isra’el forever; for in six days ADONAI made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day he stopped working and rested.’

(CLV) Ex 31:14
Hence you will keep the sabbath, for it is holy to you. Profaners of it shall be put to death, yea death, for if anyone is doing work in it, that soul will be cut off from among his people.

I was actually referring to the people, but its interesting to note that they have not kept the jubilee of the land either, which also is relational to the people and the land has yet to spewed them out ...

 

[DamianWarS]

Exodus 31
12 YHWH said to Moshe, 13 Tell the people of Isra’el, ‘You are to observe my Shabbats; for this is a sign between me and you through all your generations; so that you will know that I am YHWH, who sets you apart for me. 17 It is a sign between me and the people of Isra’el forever; for in six days ADONAI made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day he stopped working and rested.’

SHABBAT SHALOM!

Good question...

There was more than one everlasting covenants

Gen 17:9-14
Then God said to Abraham, “As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come. This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you. For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner—those who are not your offspring. Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant. Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.”

What does the NT teach us about this everlasting covenant demonstrated through circumcision? Can we apply this logic to the Sabbath? If not why the inconsistency?

 

[solid_core]

Was Yahshua a Christian or an Old Testament Jew?

Matthew 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Luke 4:4
And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Where is this written?

(CLV) Dt 8:2
And you will remember all the way which Yahweh your Elohim caused you to go these forty years in the wilderness, that He might make you humble, to probe you so as to know what is in your heart, whether or not you shall observe His instructions.

(CLV) Dt 8:3
So He made you humble and let you hunger; then He fed you with the manna which neither you had known, nor had your fathers known, that He might make you realize that not on bread it alone shall the human live, for by every utterance from the mouth of Yahweh shall the human live.

Jesus was born under the Law. But he brought another covenant, a better one, a spiritual one. It has come to effect in the first century.

And as what was said to Adam or Noah does not apply to you, even though its written, so also what was said to Moses does not apply to you, even though it is written. Different eras have different covenants.

 

[HARK!]

I was actually referring to the people, but its interesting to note that they have not kept the jubilee of the land either, which also is relational to the people and the land has yet to spewed them out ...

This short 5 minute video might be insightful to you. It's a teaser for a series I was following.

 

[NBB]

So why did you bring up all of that convoluted chaos in response to my statement that the Sabbath is forever?



I'm proficient at reading Hebrew. I've read it in the synagogues. I'm not one to pull dishonest tactics to defend false doctrine. Ayin Lamed Mem.

Just for grins would you name the niqqud for l-olm?




I'm still trying to figure out why your throwing up this smokescreen; when my initial post agrees with the JPS. You posted some cryptic convoluted dissertation about the meaning of olam; and I came back with 23 translations, including the JPS, which agreed with the OP. You continued to sow seeds of doubt, so I gave tou the JPS version specifically, along with the Hebrew; and now you turn that into a Hebrew test.

How about we just make the clear one more time.

SABBATH IS FOREVER!

It's a sign between YHWH and his people FOREVER!

Those who break sabbath will be cut off.

Will be cut off...
Why people filled with the Holy spirit himself, do not feel that they are doing wrong not doing the sabbath? also you are suggesting christians need to circumsice and keep the whole law??

 

[Der Alte]

LOL!

So when scripture proves you wrong all you can do is "LOL?"

 

[HARK!]

What does the NT teach us about this everlasting covenant demonstrated through circumcision?

(CLV) Gn 15:6
Now Abram believed on Elohim, and He reckoned it to him for righteousness

(CLV) Gn 26:5
inasmuch as your father Abraham hearkened to My voice and kept My charge, My instructions, My statutes and My laws.


(CLV) Ja 2:22
You are observing that faith worked together with his works, and by works was faith perfected.

(CLV) Ja 2:23
And fulfilled was the scripture which is saying, Now "Abraham believes God, and it is reckoned to him for righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God."

(CLV) Ja 2:24
You see that by works a man is being justified, and not by faith only.

 

[Der Alte]

(CLV) Gn 15:6
Now Abram believed on Elohim, and He reckoned it to him for righteousness
(CLV) Gn 26:5
inasmuch as your father Abraham hearkened to My voice and kept My charge, My instructions, My statutes and My laws.
(CLV) Ja 2:22
You are observing that faith worked together with his works, and by works was faith perfected.
(CLV) Ja 2:23
And fulfilled was the scripture which is saying, Now "Abraham believes God, and it is reckoned to him for righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God."
(CLV) Ja 2:24
You see that by works a man is being justified, and not by faith only.

And all of this has what to do with everlasting covenant?

 

[visionary]

Why do you teach something neither Jesus nor the apostles taught?

Are you a Christian or an Old Testament Jew?

Wow.... What you should be saying is Yeshua nor any of the apostles ever taught Sunday keeping.

 

[solid_core]

Wow.... What you should be saying is Yeshua nor any of the apostles ever taught Sunday keeping.

I am not arguing for any day keeping, Sunday included. So its an invalid argument.

 

[Strong in Him]

Yeshua didn't invent a new religion.

I didn't say he did.

He came to rescue the religion He gave on Mount Sinai,

He came to die, to reconcile man to God, Romans 5:11; 2 Corinthians 5:18.
He came as the Lamb of God, John 1:29; the spotless Lamb, chosen from the foundation of the world, 1 Peter 1:19-20.
He came to teach, and show, us what God is like - by his words, by his miracles and ultimately on the cross.

Mankind repeatedly broke the covenant that God had made with his people, so God himself made, and initiated, a new covenant, Jeremiah 31:31-34; Matthew 26:28.

It is the same faith, just clarified.

Not exactly, or the Jews would be saved.
God taught people about the Kingdom of God, made and brought in a new covenant, whereby his word was written in their hearts, made forgiveness of sins possible, gave salvation, new life, a new heart and eternal life.
All this was, and is, through Jesus - no one else can reconcile us to God and save us.
Jesus is the Messiah that the Jews are waiting for; the one who they believe will bring in the kingdom of God and establish them, the Jews, as God's people.

 

[HARK!]

Jesus was born under the Law.

I disagree.

Under the Law

 

[solid_core]

I disagree.

But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law...
Gal 4:4

 

[Strong in Him]

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Israel is the exception. Yahshua was commissioned for no other. If you reject Israel; you reject Messiah. Welcome to Israel!

Jesus spoke to, and healed, Gentiles. He revealed to a Samaritan woman that he was the Messiah, John 4:26. He said that when he was lifted up, he would draw ALL people to himself.
He sent his disciples out to the ends of the earth to preach the Good News.

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Israel is the exception. Yahshua was commissioned for no other. If you reject Israel; you reject Messiah. Welcome to Israel!

I am not rejecting Israel.
I am saying that I am not Jewish, with Jewish ancestors and history. I am a Gentile who trusts in Jesus as Lord and Saviour.

 

[visionary]

Jesus spoke to, and healed, Gentiles. He revealed to a Samaritan woman that he was the Messiah, John 4:26. He said that when he was lifted up, he would draw ALL people to himself.
He sent his disciples out to the ends of the earth to preach the Good News.



I am not rejecting Israel.
I am saying that I am not Jewish, with Jewish ancestors and history. I am a Gentile who trusts in Jesus as Lord and Saviour.

So am I

 

[Zao is life]

Exodus 31
12 YHWH said to Moshe, 13 Tell the people of Isra’el, ‘You are to observe my Shabbats; for this is a sign between me and you through all your generations; so that you will know that I am YHWH, who sets you apart for me. 17 It is a sign between me and the people of Isra’el forever; for in six days ADONAI made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day he stopped working and rested.’
SHABBAT SHALOM!

Exo 24:3 "And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the LORD has said will we do."

Exo 24:7-8 "And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.

And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD has made with you concerning all these words."

Yet they did not keep their promises. So,

Jer 31:31-32 "Behold, the days come, says the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, says the LORD."

"Though I was a husband unto them" is the same as saying that though God remained faithful to HIs vows, the "wife" had continously been unfaithful, and had therefore broken the covenant - and so their new moons, sabbaths and feasts became utterly distasteful to God, to the point that God even calls Israel "Sodom and Gomorrah":

Isa 1:10-14 "Hear the word of the LORD, all of you rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, all of you people of Gomorrah.

To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? says the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

When all of you come to appear before me, who has required this at your hand, to tread my courts?

Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting. Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hates: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them."

UNFIT FOR PURPOSE:

The Covenant God made with Israel "in the day He took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt" had become unfit for purpose in two ways:

1. It was unfit for purpose in terms of God having a covenant relatiosnhip with His elect; and
2. It was unfit for purpose to bring life and righteousness to God's elect:

Rom 7:12-14: "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin."

The Law and the covenant at Sinai was unfit for purpose not because God was not faithful and capable, but because His elect were neither faithful nor capable.

Therefore Jesus has become for us our fulfillment of the Law and all its commandments.

Praise Jesus, our shabat!

 

[Strong in Him]

So am I

Great.