What would you lose if Christianity were not true?

[jimmyjimmy]

Well, it all depends on how literally you follow the Bible (luckily for most Christians, they would just ignore the bad parts).

I'm not sure if you are aware of my background, but I was born in the USSR, in a Christian family. Some Christians have lost their lives for a belief. A waste of a life as this is the only existence we have (very likely).

There are Christian singles who are waiting on the Lord to provide them a spouse. This sometimes results in their wasting years and decades of the only life they have.

And, of course there Christians even today that rely on God for a physical healing, which often never comes resulting in their death or death of their children.

There is also untold number of decisions that end up causing suffering (i.e. moving to a poor place because Jesus called them to do that, and then either suffering or dying there due to lack of resources we've come to need in a modern society, such as top notch health care and clean water).

I know of some Christians who don't believe in family planning, because God gives life and has his own plans that they must obey.

Granted, most people don't do those things, so their loss is minimal, but if you are taking the Bible literally, you will lose.

If life is a "cosmic accident", and death snuffs it out, what do you lose?

Someday the sun will burn out and all that ever was will not be remembered. Nothing to be gained or lost.

 

[BigV]

If life is a "cosmic accident", and death snuffs it out, what do you lose?

Someday the sun will burn out and all that ever was will not be remembered. Nothing to be gained or lost.

You lose by not living it to the fullest while the death has not snuffed it out.

Religion convinces you that you have eternity but there is no reason to think religion is right. Besides, eternity is boring. What would you do for the future trillions of years once you've spend trillions years learning all there is to learn? And you can't just sleep or check out. Must always be present.

Sure, it's going to be very exciting for the first couple of trillion of years but then you may start rebelling.

 

[redleghunter]

Well, it all depends on how literally you follow the Bible (luckily for most Christians, they would just ignore the bad parts).

I'm not sure if you are aware of my background, but I was born in the USSR, in a Christian family. Some Christians have lost their lives for a belief. A waste of a life as this is the only existence we have (very likely).

There are Christian singles who are waiting on the Lord to provide them a spouse. This sometimes results in their wasting years and decades of the only life they have.

And, of course there Christians even today that rely on God for a physical healing, which often never comes resulting in their death or death of their children.

There is also untold number of decisions that end up causing suffering (i.e. moving to a poor place because Jesus called them to do that, and then either suffering or dying there due to lack of resources we've come to need in a modern society, such as top notch health care and clean water).

I know of some Christians who don't believe in family planning, because God gives life and has his own plans that they must obey.

Granted, most people don't do those things, so their loss is minimal, but if you are taking the Bible literally, you will lose.

I guess from your statements above the "loss" is related to things people like to do in this world.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

You lose by not living it to the fullest while the death has not snuffed it out.

Religion convinces you that you have eternity but there is no reason to think religion is right. Besides, eternity is boring. What would you do for the future trillions of years once you've spend trillions years learning all there is to learn? And you can't just sleep or check out. Must always be present.

Sure, it's going to be very exciting for the first couple of trillion of years but then you may start rebelling.

You assume living life to the fullest gives life meaning.

 

[the iconoclast]

Well, it all depends on how literally you follow the Bible (luckily for most Christians, they would just ignore the bad parts).

I'm not sure if you are aware of my background, but I was born in the USSR, in a Christian family. Some Christians have lost their lives for a belief. A waste of a life as this is the only existence we have (very likely).

There are Christian singles who are waiting on the Lord to provide them a spouse. This sometimes results in their wasting years and decades of the only life they have.

And, of course there Christians even today that rely on God for a physical healing, which often never comes resulting in their death or death of their children.

There is also untold number of decisions that end up causing suffering (i.e. moving to a poor place because Jesus called them to do that, and then either suffering or dying there due to lack of resources we've come to need in a modern society, such as top notch health care and clean water).

I know of some Christians who don't believe in family planning, because God gives life and has his own plans that they must obey.

Granted, most people don't do those things, so their loss is minimal, but if you are taking the Bible literally, you will lose.

Hey there

Thankyou very much for the reply.

So, what did you lose as this life is the only existence you have?

Cheers

 

[BigV]

So, what did you lose as this life is the only existence you have?

Its a tough question to answer, because I've grown to like my situation. For example, I'd probably marry a different woman (my wife remains a believer) but then I would not have the kids and the experiences that I ended up having as a result of our marriage.

Luckily for me, I vaccinate my kids and have not relied exclusively on prayer when we were younger and getting sick.

 

[the iconoclast]

Its a tough question to answer, because I've grown to like my situation. For example, I'd probably marry a different woman (my wife remains a believer) but then I would not have the kids and the experiences that I ended up having as a result of our marriage.

Luckily for me, I vaccinate my kids and have not relied exclusively on prayer when we were younger and getting sick.

Hey hey

Fair enough. Well let me help you understand your own question and lets reason together. The crux of this question is divided into 2 parts and the essence is: what if a truth believed is a lie.

First part. Loss
To lose something you must first have had something.

Second part. The promise of eternal life through Jesus Christ.

So we can see the that the first part some how relates to the second part.

So what did you have that you could lose?

Or what did you have that you lost?

Cheers

 

[BigV]

First part. Loss
To lose something you must first have had something.

But I already have life. Instead of living life unrestrained by the superstition, the Bible, and most other religions force it's way of life. I am really glad that I did not have homosexual tendencies. I would have lost much of the enjoyment in this life. This is just one example.

Secondly, due to my Christian upbringing I could not have sexual experiences in my late teens. I have lost those. Perhaps its for the better, but perhaps it is a real loss.

Second part. The promise of eternal life through Jesus Christ.

So we can see the that the first part some how relates to the second part.

Promise of eternal life means nothing, because there is no evidence it even exists. Lets put it this way. One of the main reasons I stopped being a Christian (not the main, but one of them) is that Jesus' promises that apply to this life fail.

For example, Jesus promised that if you will have faith as small as a mustard seed, nothing will be impossible for you. Matthew 17:20, and yet, we know this is not true. Jesus promised that you will receive whatever you ask in prayer:

Matthew 21:22 If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer."

And yet, we know that none of these promises work. You can test the prayer right now and you will find that nothing will happen to you that could not happen if you prayed to BigV.

Therefore, I do not expect to lose eternal life, because I think that promise is fiction, like most of the Bible.

 

[the iconoclast]

But I already have life. Instead of living life unrestrained by the superstition, the Bible, and most other religions force it's way of life. I am really glad that I did not have homosexual tendencies. I would have lost much of the enjoyment in this life. This is just one example.

Secondly, due to my Christian upbringing I could not have sexual experiences in my late teens. I have lost those. Perhaps its for the better, but perhaps it is a real loss.



Promise of eternal life means nothing, because there is no evidence it even exists. Lets put it this way. One of the main reasons I stopped being a Christian (not the main, but one of them) is that Jesus' promises that apply to this life fail.

For example, Jesus promised that if you will have faith as small as a mustard seed, nothing will be impossible for you. Matthew 17:20, and yet, we know this is not true. Jesus promised that you will receive whatever you ask in prayer:

Matthew 21:22 If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer."

And yet, we know that none of these promises work. You can test the prayer right now and you will find that nothing will happen to you that could not happen if you prayed to BigV.

Therefore, I do not expect to lose eternal life, because I think that promise is fiction, like most of the Bible.

Hey hey and thankyou for this reply.

Would you say that what you lost - because you believe the promise of Christianity to be a lie - is hope, faith and love in our Lord Jesus Christ?

What did you give Jesus - remember what you said about the hymn 'surrender all'?

Cheers

 

[BigV]

Would you say that what you lost - because you believe the promise of Christianity to be a lie - is hope, faith and love in our Lord Jesus Christ?

You can't lose what you never had, right? Jesus give you hope for salvation from Hell, but you never have proof of Hell, so your loss of hope of being saved from Hell is kind of like being saved from angry gnomes. You loose the hope, but you realize there is nothing to be saved from. Hopefully I'm being clear with this response.

What did you give Jesus - remember what you said about the hymn 'surrender all'?

I was part of a Christian community. Luckily, I have not given "Jesus" everything, but there were a few years where I would donate close to 10% of my gross income to the church. That's money that I've lost.

 

[the iconoclast]

You can't lose what you never had, right? Jesus give you hope for salvation from Hell, but you never have proof of Hell, so your loss of hope of being saved from Hell is kind of like being saved from angry gnomes. You loose the hope, but you realize there is nothing to be saved from. Hopefully I'm being clear with this response.



I was part of a Christian community. Luckily, I have not given "Jesus" everything, but there were a few years where I would donate close to 10% of my gross income to the church. That's money that I've lost.

Hey there

So when you were a Christian you did not have hope, faith and love in Him at all?

Ps - if you give something away how can it be lost?

Cheers

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

good question. wish i had thought of it.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

and to think i almost chose Buddhism. so annoying! i should have stuck with reincarnation and enlightenment.

 

[BigV]

So when you were a Christian you did not have hope, faith and love in Him at all?

Ps - if you give something away how can it be lost?

Perhaps you've misunderstood me. According to the Christian New Testament, Ap Paul says.
1 Cor. 15:19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.

That's an admission in your own Scripture that you should expect nothing from Christ in this life! All hope, faith, etc.. concern the next one.

 

[the iconoclast]

Perhaps you've misunderstood me. According to the Christian New Testament, Ap Paul says.

1 Cor. 15:19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.


That's an admission in your own Scripture that you should expect nothing from Christ in this life! All hope, faith, etc.. concern the next one.

Hey hey

I do not believe i misunderstood you. Please excuse me as this is not my intention. I disagree with your interpretation of scripture.

Have you considered that you may have misunderstood that verse?

Romans 15:13 May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope.

Please excuse me, you seem to ignore my question to you - you seem to be distracted. The below question should not be hard to answer

So when you were a Christian you did not have hope, faith and love in Him at all?

Cheers

 

[BigV]

Please excuse me, you seem to ignore my question to you - you seem to be distracted. The below question should not be hard to answer

So when you were a Christian you did not have hope, faith and love in Him at all?

I think you are playing a pointless game. Of course there is a joy in a Christian life, just as there is a joy in a life of a child who believes in Santa Claus. But Santa has nothing to do with that joy and neither does Jesus have anything to do with the joy and hope that Christians have.

Ultimately, a Christian hopes for a bright future in the afterlife and believes God will help them as they do their best to help themselves. A Christian prays for a healing as they are going to a doctor to take the medicine. I was one of those Christians myself.

 

[bèlla]

I would continue in my pursuit of fashion because I enjoy it and I’m good at it.

My lifestyle would remain the same. It’s built around my gifts and talents and that wouldn’t change.

I’d no longer be hindered in my marital and dating choices and would probably tie the knot sooner.

I wouldn’t dismiss my experiences. I’d assume my deliverance, healing and favor were indicative of a divine right I didn’t understand but had been bestowed.

I’d never think I’m cursed or damned. I would continue to live a moral life, help others, and enrich the lives of those I love.

~Bella

 

[the iconoclast]

I think you are playing a pointless game.

Hey hey friend

Please excuse me, you seem to ignore my question to you - you seem to be distracted. The below question should not be hard to answer

So when you were a Christian you did not have hope, faith and love in Him at all?

Why do you refuse to answer such an easy question? It may seem suspect. It suggests you may have an answer that you do not want to give me.

Ps - who is santa?

Cheers

 

[Silmarien]

I think you are playing a pointless game. Of course there is a joy in a Christian life, just as there is a joy in a life of a child who believes in Santa Claus. But Santa has nothing to do with that joy and neither does Jesus have anything to do with the joy and hope that Christians have.

How do you figure that?

 

[the iconoclast]

Hey hey @BigV

I suspect that i will not get the answer from you that im looking for so ive gone back to check up on the things you say.









"We look to ourselves as proof of "genuine faith" which saves.

I'm reading your posts, and I'm a believer myself (by that I mean, that I trust in Christ ALONE as my only hope of eternal life), but I am not sure that anxiety is spiritual. It could have a lot to do with your upbringing, as well as biological roots.

For example, I grew up in the home of a pastor. My dad was always busy, except when I needed discipline. Then he had the time. He would even wake us up from sleep at 10PM or so, so that he may not spare the rod (or the belt, in his case) and spoil his kids.

As a result, I think that my relationship with God developed in a similar pattern. I came to view relationship with God in the same way. I did not think that God cared about what *I* wanted but only that I conform to His Standards to a "t".

In my case, if I read the Bible more, I would concentrate on the trouble passages, such as Hebrews 6, Hebrews 10 which talked about (in the theology I grew up) the loss of Salvation for disobedience. Which would then reinforce my fears.

Now, I try to evaluate my feelings and core beliefs a bit more. I try to see if it's really God speaking to me, or is it me and my past core beliefs, conditioned by my upbringing?

Actually, I'm now tempted with agnosticism because there does not appear any proof of the historicity of the NT book of Acts.

I'm BigV and the only one on these forums. Look at my post history, if you can, and going back to 2007 when I originally registered I was posting as a Christian, who was a Baptist. In fact, I needed to have the Mods change Baptist to Atheist.

I used to be an Evangelical Christian and am now an Atheist. I have been struggling with OCD. I am noticing that I seek the approval of others. I get very defensive when finding that I'm in the minority.

Btw, just to clarify, I 'm an Atheist in the same sense as a newborn baby is an atheist. I don't believe God's exist. I am NOT claiming that NO Gods exists, since "Gods" have not been defined very well.

I'm not sure if you are aware of my background, but I was born in the USSR, in a Christian family. The only religion I'm intimately familiar with is ... Christianity!

Keep in mind that I'm an Atheist now, so my questions are more to test your faith. I'm not a hater of Christianity.

Maybe I'm a rebel at heart and want to cause problems? Maybe these forums should not have such restrictive rules if they are actually trying to minister and draw unbelievers into the Christian faith?

I'm by no means an expert, but having been a Christian and now an Atheist I can relate with the feeling of doom and gloom.

As a Christian, I used to fret over not really being saved, of being punished by God for my sins.

As an Atheist, I have experienced the existential dread, the depressing feeling of this life being all there is, and of having little to no control over the circumstances which especially flares up when going through a major medical issue for self or loved ones."






So it looks like at the start you did have love, faith and hope in our Lord Jesus Christ.

So you lost hope, faith and love in Jesus Christ. That is what you lost when you decided Christianity is not true.

1. What do you trust in now?

2. As an Atheist, you have experienced the existential dread, the depressing feeling of this life being all there is. Can you elaborate, this statement is curious to me?

3. In your case, when u once read the Bible more, you would concentrate on the trouble passages, such as Hebrews 6, Hebrews 10 which talked about (in the theology you grew up) the loss of Salvation for disobedience. Which would then reinforce your fears. What were these fears?

4. Who is santa?

Cheers