What would you lose if Christianity were not true?

[BigV]

So it looks like at the start you did have love, faith and hope in our Lord Jesus Christ.

Yep.

So you lost hope, faith and love in Jesus Christ. That is what you lost when you decided Christianity is not true.

Ok.

1. What do you trust in now?

Reason and Evidence.

2. As an Atheist, you have experienced the existential dread, the depressing feeling of this life being all there is. Can you elaborate, this statement is curious to me?

A typical Christian lives their life expecting a blissful afterlife. They expect to be reunited with their loved ones, and nothing is final for them.

As an Atheist, I realized that this life is all there is. After a few years, I'm done, never to be seen or heard from again. And the same goes for everyone around me. Death is final. This thought can be depressing and it took some effort for me to get through that stage of my life.

3. In your case, when u once read the Bible more, you would concentrate on the trouble passages, such as Hebrews 6, Hebrews 10 which talked about (in the theology you grew up) the loss of Salvation for disobedience. Which would then reinforce your fears. What were these fears?

As a Christian I had fears of losing salvation, ending up in Hell, etc..

4. Who is santa?

Santa Claus - Wikipedia

 

[BigV]

How do you figure that?

Do you know believers who are very lonely? Why would they be lonely if they 'have a fellowship' with Jesus Christ?

Based on that, I figure that Jesus is imaginary. People who are talking to Jesus are, essentially, similar to anyone who communicates with an imaginary friend(s).

 

[Silmarien]

Do you know believers who are very lonely? Why would they be lonely if they 'have a fellowship' with Jesus Christ?

Based on that, I figure that Jesus is imaginary. People who are talking to Jesus are, essentially, similar to anyone who communicates with an imaginary friend(s).

Even if that were true, it wouldn't really matter. If someone is deriving joy from an imaginary friend, the joy comes from that imaginary friend. Take away the friend, and the joy disappears with it.

That's true for Santa Claus too. When I was a kid, the joy I derived from Christmas came from the whimsical, otherworldly nature of the holiday. When the last of the magic drained away, so did the joy.

 

[BigV]

Even if that were true, it wouldn't really matter. If someone is deriving joy from an imaginary friend, the joy comes from that imaginary friend. Take away the friend, and the joy disappears with it.

That's true for Santa Claus too. When I was a kid, the joy I derived from Christmas came from the whimsical, otherworldly nature of the holiday. When the last of the magic drained away, so did the joy.

Well, I suppose you are right on what you said there. In my understanding, by losing the joy of Santa, I have not lost anything real. Everything was self generated.

 

[Silmarien]

Well, I suppose you are right on what you said there. In my understanding, by losing the joy of Santa, I have not lost anything real. Everything was self generated.

I wouldn't say that the joy was self-generated, in that it came from an external source (i.e., the idea of Santa Claus). You can't generate the type of joy that comes from believing in Santa Claus if you don't actually believe in Santa Claus, and the joy itself is real insofar as all subjective emotional states are real.

Beliefs are interesting. And they really do matter for how we contextualize reality. Change your beliefs and your worldview changes with it, and sometimes that does mean really serious gains or losses.

 

[BigV]

I wouldn't say that the joy was self-generated, in that it came from an external source (i.e., the idea of Santa Claus).

But there is no Santa! The idea was external only in the sense that others told you about Santa. But whatever feelings generated were from within.

But then, Santa is a good fiction. Traditional Christianity comes not only with the kind Jesus, but also with eternal Hell where people who don't listen to him go for ever and ever. You don't see too many A-Santa Clausists because the idea is not that bad and perhaps could even be beneficial if it makes kids feel good.

But religion is far from being all good.
What Is the Unpardonable Sin?

I cannot tell you how many times in my teaching career very distraught Christians have come to me to ask about the unpardonable sin and whether they might have committed it. I suspect most believers have asked themselves whether they have done something unforgivable. It is not surprising that many people struggle with this issue because the precise nature of “the unpardonable sin” is difficult to discern and many theories about it have been set forth through church history.

These are stories about real people who are experiencing dread due to their religion.

 

[Silmarien]

But there is no Santa! The idea was external only in the sense that others told you about Santa. But whatever feelings generated were from within.

But they're not feelings that could have been generated if you didn't actually believe that Santa existed. You can't continue to generate them afterwards. They are lost.

But then, Santa is a good fiction. Traditional Christianity comes not only with the kind Jesus, but also with eternal Hell where people who don't listen to him go for ever and ever. You don't see too many A-Santa Clausists because the idea is not that bad and perhaps could even be beneficial if it makes kids feel good.

But religion is far from being all good.
What Is the Unpardonable Sin?

I cannot tell you how many times in my teaching career very distraught Christians have come to me to ask about the unpardonable sin and whether they might have committed it. I suspect most believers have asked themselves whether they have done something unforgivable. It is not surprising that many people struggle with this issue because the precise nature of “the unpardonable sin” is difficult to discern and many theories about it have been set forth through church history.

These are stories about real people who are experiencing dread due to their religion.

Funny story: the only Christian doctrines I'm completely sure about are original sin and damnation (temporal if not eternal). I was an atheistic existentialist, and eventually came to the conclusion that Christianity was correct about the bad stuff.

 

[BigV]

Funny story: the only Christian doctrines I'm completely sure about are original sin and damnation (temporal if not eternal). I was an atheistic existentialist, and eventually came to the conclusion that Christianity was correct about the bad stuff.

it’s interesting that you think Christian bad stuff is real but not bad stuff of other religions. Jews, for example don’t believe in hell unlike the Christians.

 

[Silmarien]

it’s interesting that you think Christian bad stuff is real but not bad stuff of other religions. Jews, for example don’t believe in hell unlike the Christians.

Lots of different approaches in Judaism: Heaven and Hell in Jewish Tradition | My Jewish Learning

The Christian "bad stuff" isn't all that different than the bad stuff of other religions, though. If you read the Bhagavad Gita, for example, there's discussion of the degradation of the soul. It's a pretty common theme.

 

[the iconoclast]

Yep. Ok.

Hey hey my new friend

There we have it. That is what you lost when you decided to reject your and my Lord Jesus Christ. It all comes down to trust.

Your trust is now in a process - the ability to reason.

@DogmaHunter once said this to me.
"The human mind is extremely likely to suffer from faulty reasoning and making mistakes. We all suffer from that as we are all human"

Do you agree with this statement?

I always thought that this was an interesting statement. Atheists trust reason but acknowledge that humans are extremely likely to suffer from faulty reasoning. How do reconcile your trust in reason when humans make conclusions?

Usually one has many reasons to do something, what do you feel is the strongest point for you to reject Jesus?

Reason and Evidence.

Reason - the power of the mind to think, understand, and form judgements logically.

Do you put your trust in your own ability to reason or is it in others ability to reason for you? Is it both or is it the process?

When you say you put your trust in reason, what does that really mean to you?

Evidence - the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.

People trust different sources of evidence when establishing their beliefs. Some trust their feelings; others their observations; and some relied on the statements of respected authorities.

What evidence do you need to put your trust in Jesus? You know what you wont accept, do you know what you would accept?

A typical Christian lives their life expecting a blissful afterlife. They expect to be reunited with their loved ones, and nothing is final for them.

Are you this typical Christian you speak of or do you speak on behalf of many Christians?

What is it about you - and your partner @InterestedAtheist - that seem to use what ifs, and assumptions as sound logic?

As an Atheist, I realized that this life is all there is.

How did you prove this to yourself?

After a few years, I'm done, never to be seen or heard from again. And the same goes for everyone around me. Death is final. This thought can be depressing and it took some effort for me to get through that stage of my life.

Why is this thought depressing to you? What happens if there is an afterlife? Are you 100% certain?

As a Christian I had fears of losing salvation, ending up in Hell, etc..

Did you decide to lose your faith so you wouldnt have to deal with these fears? Was it easier to reject Christ than endure?

Santa Claus - Wikipedia

Ahhh...

The modern Santa Claus grew out of traditions surrounding the historical Saint Nicholas (a fourth-century Greek bishop and gift-giver of Myra), the British figure of Father Christmas, and the Dutch figure of Sinterklaas (himself also based on Saint Nicholas).

Claus being a variant of nicholas.

Sinterklaas
Santa claus
Santa nicholas
St nicholas.

BigV - "But there is no Santa!"

The modern santa may be a composite but the actual man seems to have existed. What has this man got to do with my faith in Jesus Christ?

Cheers