What Would YOU Do If . . .?

[JTKIRK]

a better and simpler question than the OP would be,

"What would you do if YOU were gay?"

IE, if you're male, try to imagine being irresistibly sexually attracted to men and feeling nothing at all towards women. What if God made you gay?

So, two questions:

1) Would you give in to your homosexual tendencies? or remain completely celebate?
2) Would you take seriously a religion that said that God says you shouldn't be homosexual, even though God made you how you are?

it seems to me that the people who preach against homosexuality want to preach against the one sin they have no desire to commit.

It's also different from heterosexual sexual sins, in that it is perfectly possible to have a fulfilling heterosexual sex life and still live a moral life. IE, you can get married to the person you love and fulfill most desires you want with them.

It's true, a homosexual is limited to one person that they can marry. But a homosexual has nobody.

At minimum, you'd have to agree that homosexuals are dealt a harder hand in that they can't have sex with anyone who they want to have sex with.

They can either marry someone they have no sexual attraction to whatsoever, or they can not marry at all and be completely celebate, or they can "sin".

A heterosexual should be able to fulfill most of his sexual desires with his wife. Homosexuals are basically expected to act like monks or catholic priests.

So it just seems so hypocritical to me that all of these married christians who can have sex with their wives or husbands every night, telling the homosexuals to just "suppress it and come back to God".

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]So many so-called Christians do however show their unchristian attitude, especially when this issue of homosexuality is raised. Perhaps it is a form of hypocrisy or more likely homophobia, or a combination of both. In fact no-where in the bible is the word Homosexual mentioned. Jesus certainly would not have shied away from them or the issue, that is why I believe the text John 3:16 is such an important a text, because the offer of eternal life is available to anyone who believes no matter what their sexual orientation, colour or nationality is.[/FONT]

 

[JTKIRK]

For those who want to know the truth, the word Homosexual was first used by Karl-Maria Kertbeny, who coined the term homosexual in 1869 in a pamphlet arguing against a Prussian anti-sodomy law.
Thus no books including the BIBLE, written prior to 1869, have this word in it.
You will not even find the word HOMOSEXUAL in the A.S.V, first published in 1901 or even in the first 1973 edition of the NIV, just pointing out the blatantly obvious here AGAIN, for those still trying to argue it, that HOMOSEXUALITY WAS NOT a term used by God, Jesus or by the Christian Fathers when compiling the Bible, IT WAS ADDED IN THE LATE 20th CENTUARY.
It may interest some to learn that, in “2005, the United Church of Christ became the largest Christian denomination in the United States to formally endorse same-sex marriage.” As they say, “Only in America”. Or perhaps you would prefer this, “the Anglican Communion encountered discord that caused a rift between the African (except Southern Africa) and Asian Anglican churches on the one hand and North American churches on the other when American and Canadian churches openly ordained gay clergy and began blessing same-sex unions.”

So those posters who seem more intent on trying to point out the wrongful and sinful nature in others, and seem to forget about their own faults. You are portraying an image of an absolutely hypercritical and sanctimonious nature, shame on you all. You may call yourself Christian, but you need to start acting like one, you know forgiveness, love, kindness, not the hate, anger etc that you show, Satan has won again.

Perhaps a few here, should try and read Luke again, especially 6:42 &6:43.
Luke 6:41, “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
Luke 6:42, “How can you say to your brother, ‘Brother let me take that speck out of your eye,’ when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
As Matthew states, Matthew 7:1, “ Do not judge, or you too will be judged.”

The Bible describes three emotionally close relationships between two people of the same gender. They appear to have progressed well beyond a casual friendship. The individuals are: Ruth and Naomi, David and Jonathan and Daniel and Ashpenaz.

 

[KCKID]

a better and simpler question than the OP would be,

"What would you do if YOU were gay?"

IE, if you're male, try to imagine being irresistibly sexually attracted to men and feeling nothing at all towards women. What if God made you gay?

I don't know that God 'makes' anyone homosexual or heterosexual. I don't know about you but I think I came about from a sexual union between my mom and dad ...although I prefer to not think about that, ugh.

I believe that one is either heterosexual or homosexual simply because THEY ARE. Your point IS made, however, and we'll stick with that.

So, two questions:

1) Would you give in to your homosexual tendencies? or remain completely celebate?
2) Would you take seriously a religion that said that God says you shouldn't be homosexual, even though God made you how you are?

it seems to me that the people who preach against homosexuality want to preach against the one sin they have no desire to commit.

It's also different from heterosexual sexual sins, in that it is perfectly possible to have a fulfilling heterosexual sex life and still live a moral life. IE, you can get married to the person you love and fulfill most desires you want with them.

It's true, a homosexual is limited to one person that they can marry. But a homosexual has nobody.

At minimum, you'd have to agree that homosexuals are dealt a harder hand in that they can't have sex with anyone who they want to have sex with.

They can either marry someone they have no sexual attraction to whatsoever, or they can not marry at all and be completely celebate, or they can "sin".

Christians are behaving totally irresponsible by placing such restrictions on others before they will accept them as brothers/sisters. Why must a homosexual (a) be forced to live a lie by marrying someone of the opposite gender to whom he/she is not sexually attracted, or (b) be denied ever having an intimate relationship with someone else? AND, all because of the ancient and ambiguous texts from a book written by long-dead men that NONE OF US EVEN KNEW PERSONALLY ...?

A heterosexual should be able to fulfill most of his sexual desires with his wife. Homosexuals are basically expected to act like monks or catholic priests.

So it just seems so hypocritical to me that all of these married christians who can have sex with their wives or husbands every night, telling the homosexuals to just "suppress it and come back to God".

I know of a very 'religious' person who would sooner die than be denied having sex. He has a large family as a result. And yet, this very same person would deny homosexuals that very same basic right. By the way, this person - a professed Christian - is one of those that calls homosexuals 'f a g s' and speaks of them in derogatory terms while waving his Bible around. Fortunately, I've met very few Christians like this particular guy. In fact, the rather 'nasty' Christians who are militantly opposed to homosexuality (because of God's word, they say ) are mainly found on Christian forums.

 

[No Swansong]

I always feel compelled to ask a question of those who are particularly Bible-militant in their stand against homosexuality. Now, we DO know that there are many homosexual people of both genders in the world. This cannot be denied. Furthermore, these good folks are the product of a heterosexual union at least ...whether or not one or other of the parents might be 'gay' or 'bi' or 'straight'. Moreover, any number of these good folks are also the product of Christian parents. Yep, even Christians produce homosexual kids! For instance, I have a good friend (a homosexual) whose parents are devoutly Christian ...whatever that might mean to them.

So, my question is simply: What would YOU do if your son/daughter came to you and said, "Um (clears throat), mom/dad ...I'm 'gay'?

Obviously, anyone is welcome to respond to the question but I'm particularly interested in responses from some of the 'hardline' anti-'gay' members of the forum. And, please don't say that such a thing is highly improbable simply because you ARE a hardliner. Nature apparently doesn't discriminate between Christian/nonChristian parents when it comes to sexual orientation.

I have been thinking about this thread since you posted it. I have refrained from reading the responses in order to prevent them from coloring my response.

To begin with I'm not sure that I count as anti-gay as much as I am pro Grace. But I do believe homosexual sex acts, or any sex acts outside of marriage for that matter to be sinful. The reason I took so long to respond is because I wanted to give your excellent question a well reasoned response.

My children have been told since before birth that there was nothing they could ever do to make me not love them. I do not believe my children would be afraid to tell me if they were gay and they have stated as much. So what would I do?

Well I would immediately reaffirm my love for them and Gods as well. I wouldn't have to tell them that I consider homosexual sex acts to be sinful as we have had many conversations about morality including sex in our home. I would ask them how they feel about what they told me and discuss with them the Biblical and Traditional understanding of the issue.

As for hypotheticals which I am sure have probably been raised by now, it has always been known that sex between unmarried persons is not allowed in my home and situations would be avoided in which that could become an issue. Of course this would also be true if my son brought home a girlfriend from college or any other heterosexual situation as well.

One thing that I emphasize when discussing this and other such issues with people is that I will never be judged based upon what others do, I will only be judged based upon my love for, and faith in God which is demonstrated in how I treat others.

Should my child wish to introduce me to someone I would lovingly greet them and hopefully treat them with dignity and respect. I would also explain to them the same things I would have explained to my children many times and the individual would be expected to be respectful and honor the rules of my home while in it.

Other than that I would just be dad.

Thought provoking question KCKid thanks for asking.

 

[OphidiaPhile]

I have been thinking about this thread since you posted it. I have refrained from reading the responses in order to prevent them from coloring my response.

To begin with I'm not sure that I count as anti-gay as much as I am pro Grace. But I do believe homosexual sex acts, or any sex acts outside of marriage for that matter to be sinful. The reason I took so long to respond is because I wanted to give your excellent question a well reasoned response.

My children have been told since before birth that there was nothing they could ever do to make me not love them. I do not believe my children would be afraid to tell me if they were gay and they have stated as much. So what would I do?

Well I would immediately reaffirm my love for them and Gods as well. I wouldn't have to tell them that I consider homosexual sex acts to be sinful as we have had many conversations about morality including sex in our home. I would ask them how they feel about what they told me and discuss with them the Biblical and Traditional understanding of the issue.

As for hypotheticals which I am sure have probably been raised by now, it has always been known that sex between unmarried persons is not allowed in my home and situations would be avoided in which that could become an issue. Of course this would also be true if my son brought home a girlfriend from college or any other heterosexual situation as well.

One thing that I emphasize when discussing this and other such issues with people is that I will never be judged based upon what others do, I will only be judged based upon my love for, and faith in God which is demonstrated in how I treat others.

Should my child wish to introduce me to someone I would lovingly greet them and hopefully treat them with dignity and respect. I would also explain to them the same things I would have explained to my children many times and the individual would be expected to be respectful and honor the rules of my home while in it.

Other than that I would just be dad.

Thought provoking question KCKid thanks for asking.

It is good to see a Christian respond in a way that I respect after seeing so many that would cease having any association with their own child.

Cheers

 

[OphidiaPhile]

I don't know that God 'makes' anyone homosexual or heterosexual. I don't know about you but I think I came about from a sexual union between my mom and dad ...although I prefer to not think about that, ugh.

I believe that one is either heterosexual or homosexual simply because THEY ARE. Your point IS made, however, and we'll stick with that.



Christians are behaving totally irresponsible by placing such restrictions on others before they will accept them as brothers/sisters. Why must a homosexual (a) be forced to live a lie by marrying someone of the opposite gender to whom he/she is not sexually attracted, or (b) be denied ever having an intimate relationship with someone else? AND, all because of the ancient and ambiguous texts from a book written by long-dead men that NONE OF US EVEN KNEW PERSONALLY ...?



I know of a very 'religious' person who would sooner die than be denied having sex. He has a large family as a result. And yet, this very same person would deny homosexuals that very same basic right. By the way, this person - a professed Christian - is one of those that calls homosexuals 'f a g s' and speaks of them in derogatory terms while waving his Bible around. Fortunately, I've met very few Christians like this particular guy. In fact, the rather 'nasty' Christians who are militantly opposed to homosexuality (because of God's word, they say ) are mainly found on Christian forums.

Good posts KC.

 

[KCKID]

I have been thinking about this thread since you posted it. I have refrained from reading the responses in order to prevent them from coloring my response.

To begin with I'm not sure that I count as anti-gay as much as I am pro Grace. But I do believe homosexual sex acts, or any sex acts outside of marriage for that matter to be sinful. The reason I took so long to respond is because I wanted to give your excellent question a well reasoned response.

My children have been told since before birth that there was nothing they could ever do to make me not love them. I do not believe my children would be afraid to tell me if they were gay and they have stated as much. So what would I do?

Well I would immediately reaffirm my love for them and Gods as well. I wouldn't have to tell them that I consider homosexual sex acts to be sinful as we have had many conversations about morality including sex in our home. I would ask them how they feel about what they told me and discuss with them the Biblical and Traditional understanding of the issue.

As for hypotheticals which I am sure have probably been raised by now, it has always been known that sex between unmarried persons is not allowed in my home and situations would be avoided in which that could become an issue. Of course this would also be true if my son brought home a girlfriend from college or any other heterosexual situation as well.

One thing that I emphasize when discussing this and other such issues with people is that I will never be judged based upon what others do, I will only be judged based upon my love for, and faith in God which is demonstrated in how I treat others.

Should my child wish to introduce me to someone I would lovingly greet them and hopefully treat them with dignity and respect. I would also explain to them the same things I would have explained to my children many times and the individual would be expected to be respectful and honor the rules of my home while in it.

Other than that I would just be dad.

Thought provoking question KCKid thanks for asking.

And thanks for your well thought out response.

 

[No Swansong]

And thanks for your well thought out response.

You are welcome I suppose I should read the rest of the thread now.

 

[No Swansong]

It is good to see a Christian respond in a way that I respect after seeing so many that would cease having any association with their own child.

Cheers

Thank you for the compliment.

 

[GMRELIC]

I always feel compelled to ask a question of those who are particularly Bible-militant in their stand against homosexuality. Now, we DO know that there are many homosexual people of both genders in the world. This cannot be denied. Furthermore, these good folks are the product of a heterosexual union at least ...whether or not one or other of the parents might be 'gay' or 'bi' or 'straight'. Moreover, any number of these good folks are also the product of Christian parents. Yep, even Christians produce homosexual kids! For instance, I have a good friend (a homosexual) whose parents are devoutly Christian ...whatever that might mean to them.

So, my question is simply: What would YOU do if your son/daughter came to you and said, "Um (clears throat), mom/dad ...I'm 'gay'?

Obviously, anyone is welcome to respond to the question but I'm particularly interested in responses from some of the 'hardline' anti-'gay' members of the forum. And, please don't say that such a thing is highly improbable simply because you ARE a hardliner. Nature apparently doesn't discriminate between Christian/nonChristian parents when it comes to sexual orientation.

Read the book or see the movie "Prayers for Bobby" It will show you the total devestation that rejection of a gay child can cause. Rejection of a gay child leads the child to feel unworthy as a person, as a society misfit, I wonder how many gay offspring took thier lives because of the hatred, rejection, and embarassment, that family and society, and yes some Christians have dealt them, In my opinion those that have caused such pain and misery in someones life has blood on their hands

 

[OphidiaPhile]

Read the book or see the movie "Prayers for Bobby" It will show you the total devestation that rejection of a gay child can cause. Rejection of a gay child leads the child to feel unworthy as a person, as a society misfit, I wonder how many gay offspring took thier lives because of the hatred, rejection, and embarassment, that family and society, and yes some Christians have dealt them, In my opinion those that have caused such pain and misery in someones life has blood on their hands

+1

 

[KCKID]

Read the book or see the movie "Prayers for Bobby" It will show you the total devestation that rejection of a gay child can cause. Rejection of a gay child leads the child to feel unworthy as a person, as a society misfit, I wonder how many gay offspring took thier lives because of the hatred, rejection, and embarassment, that family and society, and yes some Christians have dealt them, In my opinion those that have caused such pain and misery in someones life has blood on their hands

Precisely. That anyone - particularly a parent - would reject a person merely for being sexually attracted to someone of the same gender is beyond my capacity to reason why.

In fact, would someone who would reject their son/daughter/friend make an attempt, at least, to try to convince me (us) why they would?

 

[JTKIRK]

Precisely. That anyone - particularly a parent - would reject a person merely for being sexually attracted to someone of the same gender is beyond my capacity to reason why.

In fact, would someone who would reject their son/daughter/friend make an attempt, at least, to try to convince me (us) why they would?

Could they justify their position?

 

[Beanieboy]

Read the book or see the movie "Prayers for Bobby" It will show you the total devestation that rejection of a gay child can cause. Rejection of a gay child leads the child to feel unworthy as a person, as a society misfit, I wonder how many gay offspring took thier lives because of the hatred, rejection, and embarassment, that family and society, and yes some Christians have dealt them, In my opinion those that have caused such pain and misery in someones life has blood on their hands

When I was dealing with it in the 80s, not even having come out to myself yet, was always accused of it and harrassed constantly during college, hear little about it except that God hated it, society seemed to hate us, and on a number of occasions, going through deep depression, trying to resolve Christianity and homosexuality, and the strict religious beliefs of my parents, I often contemplated suicide quite seriously.

I came out to my mom at 26, and at one point, she said that she had gone to church with my sister, and the sermon was about gay people. My mom told me that she left the service later, telling her that she wished that she was dead before one of her kids told her that they were gay.

Then she asked me why I hadn't told her earlier.
I said, "You weren't dead yet?"

And then we went into about 15-20 years of distance and uncomfortableness.

But during my younger years, it was really, really hard.

 

[Beanieboy]

Could they justify their position?

For my mom, who I felt like rejected me emotionally (stopped calling on my birthday, or didn't ask me to come home for Christmas, etc.), her children are a reflection of her parenting, so me being gay would be a reflection of my mom making me gay or something.

If we went to church, people wouid say, "Why aren't you married yet", and things like that that my mom didn't want stigmatized to her.

So, kind of selfish reasons, maybe, fear of what others would think, a very old school view of the bible, watching 700 Club and listening to Pat Robertson and Tammy Faye and Jim Bakker...

All of those things.

 

[Beanieboy]

Can I rent Prayers for Bobby?

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Precisely. That anyone - particularly a parent - would reject a person merely for being sexually attracted to someone of the same gender is beyond my capacity to reason why.

In fact, would someone who would reject their son/daughter/friend make an attempt, at least, to try to convince me (us) why they would?

How do you convince a Pimp that prostitution is immoral?

Prostitution, by the way, is two consenting adults.

 

[CCGirl]

I always feel compelled to ask a question of those who are particularly Bible-militant in their stand against homosexuality. Now, we DO know that there are many homosexual people of both genders in the world. This cannot be denied. Furthermore, these good folks are the product of a heterosexual union at least ...whether or not one or other of the parents might be 'gay' or 'bi' or 'straight'. Moreover, any number of these good folks are also the product of Christian parents. Yep, even Christians produce homosexual kids! For instance, I have a good friend (a homosexual) whose parents are devoutly Christian ...whatever that might mean to them.

So, my question is simply: What would YOU do if your son/daughter came to you and said, "Um (clears throat), mom/dad ...I'm 'gay'?

Obviously, anyone is welcome to respond to the question but I'm particularly interested in responses from some of the 'hardline' anti-'gay' members of the forum. And, please don't say that such a thing is highly improbable simply because you ARE a hardliner. Nature apparently doesn't discriminate between Christian/nonChristian parents when it comes to sexual orientation.

Well, first of all, I would be very pleased that my children felt they could confide in me.

Secondly, there is absolutely NOTHING that any of my children tell me that would make me stop loving them UNCONDITIONALLY. NOTHING.

My children were all aware of my efforts on behalf of the campaign for equal marriage here in Canada. They also understand that I do not tolerate any prejudice, whether race, colour, creed or sexuality.

I dont even have a problem with consenting adults sleeping together in my home. My oldest son had his girlfriend living here (he later married her) for over a year, because, you guessed it, her fundie parents were not accepting of my non-theist son. (sadly, she died on Dec 1,2008)

 

[OphidiaPhile]

How do you convince a Pimp that prostitution is immoral?

Prostitution, by the way, is two consenting adults.

And what correlation are you trying to make?

 

[CreedIsChrist]

I always feel compelled to ask a question of those who are particularly Bible-militant in their stand against homosexuality. Now, we DO know that there are many homosexual people of both genders in the world. This cannot be denied. Furthermore, these good folks are the product of a heterosexual union at least ...whether or not one or other of the parents might be 'gay' or 'bi' or 'straight'. Moreover, any number of these good folks are also the product of Christian parents. Yep, even Christians produce homosexual kids! For instance, I have a good friend (a homosexual) whose parents are devoutly Christian ...whatever that might mean to them.

So, my question is simply: What would YOU do if your son/daughter came to you and said, "Um (clears throat), mom/dad ...I'm 'gay'?

Obviously, anyone is welcome to respond to the question but I'm particularly interested in responses from some of the 'hardline' anti-'gay' members of the forum. And, please don't say that such a thing is highly improbable simply because you ARE a hardliner. Nature apparently doesn't discriminate between Christian/nonChristian parents when it comes to sexual orientation.

I'd find him a woman he could not resist. Because I believe there is a woman out there for EVERY man. Even homosexual men. THe problem is they are so far into their own lifestyle that they won't give a good modest decent woman a chance. They have become so surrounded by bold, loud, arrogant women that they haven't got the faintest idea of what a real woman is. ANd once they found one, they would leave that lifestyle in a second. The problem is they haven't truly searched for that special woman yet and haven't made the effort. Children, good wife, family, pet. No sane man would give that up for anything and no gay lifestyle can replace it.




ANd while some christian family may produce children who have homosexual urges, most homosexuals seem to come from familys that had some sort of sexual/family abuse in them, or an overbearing father or mother.