What Would YOU Do If . . .?

[geekgirlkelli]

I'm sorry, I think we just had a terminology mix-up. I've never heard "transgender' used to refer to genderal genderqueerness or cross-dressing. (Incidentally I know some people who self-identify as transvestites.) Could be a British/American thing? Divided by a common language and all that!

Yes, I think that's it. It happens a lot, no big deal. Quite frankly I think the language is as fluid as gender at times.

 

[geekgirlkelli]

By definition of gay sex, men who are gay and have gay sex are not manly IMO.

LOL, there ya go being deliberatly obtuse again.

We were talking about the way they come across in everyday life, outside of the bedroom.

 

[HaloHope]

Yeah, because getting a first job when you have no home and no one to support you, and you've just suffered the severe emotional trauma of being disowned by your family, is really easy.

Id say that disowning your child for something as trivial as sexual orientation or even gender identity shows that the parent in question had no business being a parent in the first place.

 

[angellica]

LOL, there ya go being deliberatly obtuse again.

We were talking about the way they come across in everyday life, outside of the bedroom.

Outside the bedroom, the only men that I've met and known were gay were feminine - they talked in a higher pitch than was natural, they used excessive hand motions, etc. But, I could have met some men who appear masculine but are gay and just not known it, I guess.

 

[angellica]

Id say that disowning your child for something as trivial as sexual orientation or even gender identity shows that the parent in question had no business being a parent in the first place.

I see it as a much bigger issue, not trivial by any means. It's more than an orientation - it's a lifestyle.

 

[keith99]

By definition of gay sex, men who are gay and have gay sex are not manly IMO.

I'll take the 300 either from Thermopylae or the Theban sacred band as manly men.

 

[HaloHope]

Outside the bedroom, the only men that I've met and known were gay were feminine - they talked in a higher pitch than was natural, they used excessive hand motions, etc. But, I could have met some men who appear masculine but are gay and just not known it, I guess.

You certainly need to not stereotype, Id say at least 95% of the men I know and call freinds are gay and very few of them are femenine, most you wouldn't know they were gay unless you knew them.

 

[sidhe]

Fair enough.

I'd also be loath to hop in and suggest transgenderism as opposed to possible transvestism or even just plain old not-gender-binary-ness.

I know it's an issue close to your heart, kelli. No hard feelings.

That the bolded gets mentioned warms the cockles of my heart. It gets down into the subcockle regions, even. Maybe even warms my kidneys.

Smashing the dichotomy one bit at a time...

 

[geekgirlkelli]

But, I could have met some men who appear masculine but are gay and just not known it, I guess.

Most likely.

 

[geekgirlkelli]

Id say that disowning your child for something as trivial as sexual orientation or even gender identity shows that the parent in question had no business being a parent in the first place.

My sentiments exactly.

 

[angellica]

You certainly need to not stereotype, Id say at least 95% of the men I know and call freinds are gay and very few of them are femenine, most you wouldn't know they were gay unless you knew them.

I'm not stereotyping. It is a fact that all the guys that I have met that I know are gay are feminine. As I said, I could have met some that were gay and I just didn't know it.

 

[keith99]

Outside the bedroom, the only men that I've met and known were gay were feminine - they talked in a higher pitch than was natural, they used excessive hand motions, etc. But, I could have met some men who appear masculine but are gay and just not known it, I guess.

That is the problem, any feminine seeming man is thought to be gay, even if he is not, any masculine guy is thought to be straight even if he is as gay as they get. I can think of a few gay, masculine, handsome men. All these happen to also be femme friendly and from time to time are seen with a female friend on their arm. The vast majority of the gay men I know can pass very very easily. In a lighthearted, but cynical, vein I often say I'm very happy these guys are gay as they could get pretty much any woman they want.

 

[HaloHope]

I'm not stereotyping. It is a fact that all the guys that I have met that I know are gay are feminine. As I said, I could have met some that were gay and I just didn't know it.

Then I apologise to the misunderstanding!

 

[angellica]

That is the problem, any feminine seeming man is thought to be gay, even if he is not, any masculine guy is thought to be straight even if he is as gay as they get. I can think of a few gay, masculine, handsome men. All these happen to also be femme friendly and from time to time are seen with a female friend on their arm. The vast majority of the gay men I know can pass very very easily. In a lighthearted, but cynical, vein I often say I'm very happy these guys are gay as they could get pretty much any woman they want.

The ones I'm talking about were actually gay. They said they were. I'm not talking about assuming they are.

 

[geekgirlkelli]

I'm not stereotyping. It is a fact that all the guys that I have met that I know are gay are feminine. As I said, I could have met some that were gay and I just didn't know it.

And on the other hand, there are straight guys whom you would most likely classify as gay. My first ex's husband is a great example of that. She married an extremely soft-spoken and effeminate, yet straight (and fundamentalist Christian) guy. Who knows, maybe he is a closet case, but he's pushing late 40's at this point and no sign of coming out yet, LOL.

 

[sidhe]

I see it as a much bigger issue, not trivial by any means. It's more than an orientation - it's a lifestyle.

What does the lifestyle entail, perchance?

 

[wanderingone]

They can get a job, so it would not be my fault if they failed to do so and turned to prostitution for money.

But you just said in a previous quote you wouldn't put a kid out because they can't get a job.. or does your age limit stop at 13 or 14... you would put out a 15 or 16 year old? In my state those kids need working papers and have serious restrictions on the number of hours they can work and the time of day they can work.

Putting a kid out for any reason is dangerous stuff. I sincerely hope that anyone who is irresponsible enough not to take care of their own child would at least make arrangements to give their child up to social services rather than just say "get out" and believe some notion of "tough love" will cause their kid to "straighten up" and come home.

 

[angellica]

What does the lifestyle entail, perchance?

I already said this a few pages back, but basically it's being gay (romantic and/or sexual) and not believing it's wrong. It's living in defiance of God.

 

[angellica]

But you just said in a previous quote you wouldn't put a kid out because they can't get a job.. or does your age limit stop at 13 or 14... you would put out a 15 or 16 year old? In my state those kids need working papers and have serious restrictions on the number of hours they can work and the time of day they can work.

Putting a kid out for any reason is dangerous stuff. I sincerely hope that anyone who is irresponsible enough not to take care of their own child would at least make arrangements to give their child up to social services rather than just say "get out" and believe some notion of "tough love" will cause their kid to "straighten up" and come home.

If they could get a job, I guess I would if they insisted on living in sin. If they are irresponsible enough to not follow the rules of the house they are living in, even when told of the consequences, then it is their problem.

 

[sidhe]

I already said this a few pages back, but basically it's being gay (romantic and/or sexual) and not believing it's wrong. It's living in defiance of God.

That's not really a lifestyle, though. After all, what if said individual was raised in a religion that didn't believe teh ghey was ebil? They're not really living in defiance of your god if they don't believe in Him/Her/It/Them (elohim is a complicated word...I like to cover my bases).