What would it take?!

[LifeToTheFullest!]

I have been following the blogs of PZ Myers and Jerry Coyne over the last several days as they have been disussing reasons, or lack thereof to believe in a supernatural god. They disagree with each other on what would be considered sufficient evidence to prove a god, but they both agree whole heartedly that there is absolutely no evidence to support a belief in such a being.

First Coyne:Can there be evidence for God? « Why Evolution Is True

Then PZ:Eight reasons you won't persuade me to believe in a god : Pharyngula

My question is this;

For theists, is there any amount of evidence or event that would convince you that a supernatural god does not exist?

For atheists/agnostics, is there any amount of evidence or event that would convince you that a supernatural god does exist?

 

[Inept]

For atheists/agnostics, is there any amount of evidence or event that would convince you that a supernatural god does exist?

Yes. If the existence of God could be definitively proven then I would accept it.

 

[sandwiches]

For atheists/agnostics, is there any amount of evidence or event that would convince you that a supernatural god does exist?

Absolutely. I base my entire beliefs on what can be shown to be true. If the existence of a God could be demonstrably verified, then I'd believe it.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

I agree, but what would you consider as sufficient to prove to you, personally that there was a supernatural god?

 

[keith99]

Consider Clarke's (I think) law.

Any sufficiently advanced technology in indistinguisable from magic.

Now consider the various Star Trek series.

Couldn't most of the races in the The New Generation look like God's to us if they so chose? But if we saw such a episode from the outside would we consider them Gods?

What about the Q? Gods?

There is the problem. If such exists and decides to contact us it is easy to prove they are far advanced over us, so far advanced that pulling off almost all recorded miracles would be possible for them.

But are they God? I'd say no, but what could God do to prove he is more than a highly advanced natural lifeform?

 

[sandwiches]

I agree, but what would you consider as sufficient to prove to you, personally that there was a supernatural god?

I haven't a clue. I've been asked that before and, in fact, I've asked myself the same question several times. I simply don't know.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

To begin with, restoring appendages to every amputee would begin to get my attention.

 

[Exiledoomsayer]

Consider Clarke's (I think) law.

Any sufficiently advanced technology in indistinguisable from magic.

Now consider the various Star Trek series.

Couldn't most of the races in the The New Generation look like God's to us if they so chose? But if we saw such a episode from the outside would we consider them Gods?

What about the Q? Gods?

There is the problem. If such exists and decides to contact us it is easy to prove they are far advanced over us, so far advanced that pulling off almost all recorded miracles would be possible for them.

But are they God? I'd say no, but what could God do to prove he is more than a highly advanced natural lifeform?

This is a good point.

I would say that if presented with evidence of a god that i would change my stance to fit the evidence.

I suppose that if you had a being show that it could create ex-nelio(sp?) that would be a good place to start.

But there is the issue of what would be evidence to proof something so massive. I think you would even run into a different issue of what is god, why is god supernatural other then that we decreed that he has to be?

Suppose an allien race was behind all the miracles and religious experiences people have had. Would those alliens be the god of those religions(having started them in the first place) or have those religions created a image of who did those things that excludes that alien race?

 

[Delphiki]

For me, it's impossible to prove God to a human. As an agnostic panthiest (I guess?)... well... see my sig.

edit: oops.. forgot I changed it. lol

If there is a God, it would exist as a conscious constructed of everything -- including that which is far beyond discoverable by humans.... In other words, if there is a God, according to how I would define one, it would be impossible to prove.

One thing I do know for certain: God as Christians understand it absolutely does not exist. For one, he's too tiny. Smaller than what man has discovered through science, that's for sure.

 

[3sigma]

For atheists/agnostics, is there any amount of evidence or event that would convince you that a supernatural god does exist?
…
I agree, but what would you consider as sufficient to prove to you, personally that there was a supernatural god?

In concurrence with the other atheists here, I would certainly believe there is a God if there was sound evidence to show that the claim it is real is true. As for the specific evidence required, here are a few examples that would go some way to convincing me.

If the Christian God is as loving and omnipotent as Christians claim then it would be simple for it to cure all known diseases immediately. From now on, no one should ever fall sick again. It could restore all those who are sick, infirm, handicapped or injured in any way to perfect health immediately. It could stop all wars across the globe immediately. It could prevent all natural disasters from occurring. It could prevent all accidents, injuries or deaths from occurring. It could prevent all torture, maiming, intolerance, cruelty and violence from occurring. It could prevent hunger and starvation everywhere on Earth.

If the Christian God is as loving and omnipotent as Christians claim then it could do all of those things overnight. Of course, we all know this won’t happen so the question Christians need to ask themselves is: why not?

 

[AV1611VET]

For theists, is there any amount of evidence or event that would convince you that a supernatural god does not exist?

Spiritual ageusia.

Psalm 34:8 O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

 

[juvenissun]

In concurrence with the other atheists here, I would certainly believe there is a God if there was sound evidence to show that the claim it is real is true. As for the specific evidence required, here are a few examples that would go some way to convincing me.

If the Christian God is as loving and omnipotent as Christians claim then it would be simple for it to cure all known diseases immediately. From now on, no one should ever fall sick again. It could restore all those who are sick, infirm, handicapped or injured in any way to perfect health immediately. It could stop all wars across the globe immediately. It could prevent all natural disasters from occurring. It could prevent all accidents, injuries or deaths from occurring. It could prevent all torture, maiming, intolerance, cruelty and violence from occurring. It could prevent hunger and starvation everywhere on Earth.

If the Christian God is as loving and omnipotent as Christians claim then it could do all of those things overnight. Of course, we all know this won’t happen so the question Christians need to ask themselves is: why not?

We certainly have very good answers. But you may not want to hear it.

 

[3sigma]

We certainly have very good answers. But you may not want to hear it.

Well I certainly don’t want to hear waffling excuses so, come on, give us a “very good answer” that clearly and reasonably explains why your loving, omnipotent God won’t do all of those things I mentioned. Is it because it isn’t loving? Is it because it isn’t omnipotent? Or is it because it isn’t real?

 

[AV1611VET]

Well I certainly don’t want to hear waffling excuses so, come on, give us a “very good answer” that clearly and reasonably explains why your loving, omnipotent God won’t do all of those things I mentioned. Is it because it isn’t loving? Is it because it isn’t omnipotent? Or is it because it isn’t real?

1

 

[3sigma]

[hypothetical scenario]

You evaded the question. The question is why hasn’t your God or Jesus done any of those things. If it did those things I mentioned before or those things you mentioned in your hypothetical scenario then it would go a long way to convincing me it is real, but the plain, cold reality is: it hasn’t. Why hasn’t your loving, omnipotent God done any of those things I mentioned when, if it is as loving and omnipotent as Christians claim, it could have done them eons ago without batting an eye. The fact that it hasn’t done them suggests that it isn’t loving, isn’t omnipotent or isn’t real. Which is it?

 

[AV1611VET]

You evaded the question. The question is why hasn’t your God or Jesus done any of those things. If it did those things I mentioned before or those things you mentioned in your hypothetical scenario then it would go a long way to convincing me it is real, but the plain, cold reality is: it hasn’t. Why hasn’t your loving, omnipotent God done any of those things I mentioned when, if it is as loving and omnipotent as Christians claim, it could have done them eons ago without batting an eye. The fact that it hasn’t done them suggests that it isn’t loving, isn’t omnipotent or isn’t real. Which is it?

Well, when "it" comes back and does do all those things you mentioned in the OP, what would you think of "it" then?

Keep in mind that the Bible makes it clear that, at the end of the thousand-year Millennial Reign, when "it" has been doing just what you said, there will be a doosey of a battle against "it".

If you think you'll fall down and worship "it", when "it" meets all your demands first, I have a bridge I want to sell you.

 

[3sigma]

Well, when "it" comes back and does do all those things you mentioned in the OP, what would you think of "it" then?

I’ve already said it would help convince me it is real, but again, the fact is it hasn’t done any of those things I mentioned when it could quite easily have done them ages ago. So, again, if the Christian God is as loving and omnipotent as Christians claim it is, why hasn’t it already done those things I mentioned? Is it because the Christian God isn’t loving? Is it because it isn’t omnipotent? Or is it because it isn’t real? You keep evading the questions. Why are you behaving so evasively?

 

[AV1611VET]

I’ve already said it would help convince me it is real, but again, the fact is it hasn’t done any of those things I mentioned when it could quite easily have done them ages ago. So, again, if the Christian God is as loving and omnipotent as Christians claim it is, why hasn’t it already done those things I mentioned? Is it because the Christian God isn’t loving? Is it because it isn’t omnipotent? Or is it because it isn’t real? You keep evading the questions. Why are you behaving so evasively?

He hasn't done it, because He works on a timetable.

In addition, He doesn't cater to any one person.

In addition, you're not thinking this through.

Should He do all that for you, what about the next person?

What about the person who says, "I won't believe in Him until He eliminates the Jews?"

What about the American Holocaust that is currently in progress? and I don't mean the Indians, either.

Do you want Him to put a stop to that? (please answer this one)

 

[3sigma]

He hasn't done it, because He works on a timetable.

So it isn’t loving or omnipotent yet? Is that what you are saying? Christians claim their God is loving and omnipotent right now so why hasn’t it already rid the world of disease, famine, intolerance, cruelty, violence, injuries and other hardships? Is it because it isn’t loving, isn’t omnipotent or isn’t real?

In addition, He doesn't cater to any one person.
In addition, you're not thinking this through.
Should He do all that for you, what about the next person?
What about the person who says, "I won't believe in Him until He eliminates the Jews?"

I’m not demanding that your God has to do those things I mentioned before I’ll believe in it. They were just some examples of things it could already have done that would help convince me it is real. The fact that it hasn’t already done them suggests that it isn’t loving, omnipotent or real.

What about the American Holocaust that is currently in progress?
Do you want Him to put a stop to that? (please answer this one)

Sorry, but I have no idea what you are talking about. What is the “American Holocaust”? It sounds like something you’ve either made up on the spot or some delusional overreaction.

 

[AV1611VET]

Sorry, but I have no idea what you are talking about. What is the “American Holocaust”? It sounds like something you’ve either made up on the spot or some delusional overreaction.

That's what I thought.

You really didn't put much foresight into your demands, did you?