What would it take to make you a Christian?

[Sanoy]

... or later gospel writers quoted Jesus saying things that he never said or added/removed context thus changing the meaning of his words, etc.

Think about how many times people have claimed you said or did something that you know you did NOT say or do. That happens to me fairly often and I'm still alive to see it. I can only shudder at what people might claim I said or did in 100 years or 1000 years if I was important enough to be remembered that long. Bart Ehrman said he rarely gives interviews, because he is always dismayed to see how the reporters muddle his words. (LOL, and I am probably muddling what Bart Ehrman actually said about people muddling his words.)

In either example there is nothing syncretic to be made from Christianity. Either you leave it out, or you leave everything else out.

 

[Sanoy]

The other option is interpretation, what does it show or mean to be a Son of God? We can consider it is showing a relationship of the Son to the Father, as Christ said he who knows the Son knows the Father. Thus just like a son in this world grows and matures to become a father, so will the Faith of Christ grow and mature, if they see the Son in the Father. Christ the Son had more to tell us and as Christ the Father, the Spirit of Truth, we can be guided to all Truth.

But only when we accept the Father, who according to many prophecies about the end of ages, will the the 'Glory of God', or 'Glory of the Lord'.

Regards Tony

There is exegetic interpretation, there is eisegesis, and then there is the massive amount of equivocation required to syncretise 4 religions with explicitly contrary statements. What is the point in insulting 4 religions simultaneously? Mein Kampf can be added if we try our best with Eisegesis and equivocation.

 

[Sanoy]

Sure there is. People do it all of the time. For myself, I'm unable to limit or bound up the Light of God into any single point of reference. There are other options other than the two you gave.

Only by making a liar of Christ do they syncretise Christ with other religions.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

There is exegetic interpretation, there is eisegesis, and then there is the massive amount of equivocation required to syncretise 4 religions with explicitly contrary statements. What is the point in insulting 4 religions simultaneously? Mein Kampf can be added if we try our best with Eisegesis and equivocation.

God doeth as He Willeth.

To some that is insulting, to some that is being born again and to a majority it passes them by.

Many are called, but few are chosen.

Regards Tony

 

[Sanoy]

God doeth as He Willeth.

To some that is insulting, to some that is being born again and to a majority it passes them by.

Many are called, but few are chosen.

Regards Tony

That would be 5.4 billion people that are insulted by the meaningless syncretization and destruction of their religions. I'll quote you another verse "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

"I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

A truth 5.4 billion will, in time, come to know. Meanwhile, many are called.

Regards Tony

 

[cloudyday2]

The Sufies say that it's through this Creation that God knows HimSelf. So from that perspective the Ant's view would be what God sees'. Add to that a Universal wide opportunity to experience HimSelf through an infinite variety of life forms through out the Cosmos. Does that fit your sometimes imagined incarnation of God?

That is similar. The problem is that some religions say things without actually behaving according to those beliefs. For example, one of the popular Hindu views is that this world is an imaginary cycle or suffering and redeath and rebirth that must be escaped through enlightenment. In a way, enlightenment is a way to permanently extinguish yourself. But these Hindus practices don't seem to follow their supposed beliefs IMO. They seem to care about their lives and the lives of others. Of course there are exceptions such as the Hindus with withered hands and so on.

Just random thoughts. I've been thinking the maya idea about this world doesn't quite work. If there is a God and we are here, then I would think that there is nothing we are supposed to be changing. Things are the way they should be. We humans are not privileged to know the purpose.

I like the imaginary god, Crom, of Conan the Barbarian:

...He dwells on a great mountain. What use to call on him? Little he cares if men live or die. Better to be silent than to call his attention to you; he will send you dooms, not fortune! He is grim and loveless, but at birth he breathes power to strive and slay into a man's soul. What else shall men ask of the gods?

Crom (fictional deity) - Wikipedia

 

[cloudyday2]

Imagine a prisoner writing to the Pope and all the Worlds Leaders.

I ask all, who else has done that and told them all how to obtain the 'Most Great Peace', as foretold in all Scriptures?

Where does that audacity come from if it is not from God?

Regards Tony

Yes, it was definitely audacious.

 

[cloudyday2]

In either example there is nothing syncretic to be made from Christianity. Either you leave it out, or you leave everything else out.

In many ways it is a long-standing tradition. Martin Luther claimed that the Catholics had corrupted the faith and that he was bringing back the "true" Christianity. Muhammad claimed the same thing earlier. Joseph Smith claimed the same thing with Mormonism. Baha'u'llah was doing the same thing with Muhammad and Jesus and Moses. ... Even Jesus was doing that.

The question is who is correct and who is incorrect, or maybe everybody is incorrect (that is what I think).

 

[Sanoy]

In many ways it is a long-standing tradition. Martin Luther claimed that the Catholics had corrupted the faith and that he was bringing back the "true" Christianity. Muhammad claimed the same thing earlier. Joseph Smith claimed the same thing with Mormonism. Baha'u'llah was doing the same thing with Muhammad and Jesus and Moses. ... Even Jesus was doing that.

The question is who is correct and who is incorrect, or maybe everybody is incorrect (that is what I think).

Only one claimed to be God. Jesus didn't claim to be bringing back the "true" He claimed to be the Truth itself. You can't syncretise that.

 

[Robban]

OK, you are not alone,

.

The written Torah does not include any information about what happens to the soul after death either,
nor about heaven and hell, the nature of the soul or even much about G-d.
It is more a practical guide, much in storyform.

Besides the Torah given to Moses, it was accompanied by
the Oral Torah, which is just as much G-d,s word as the written Torah.

It was meant to be transmitted orally,
but as time went by there was a concern it would become
garbled and forgotten, so it was written down.

The Oral traditions as it is also known,
Tradition.
As to for example reincarnation, tradition is the true authority.

Therefore one does not need to know why one does this or that, it is tradition.

 

[dlamberth]

.

 

[cloudyday2]

Only one claimed to be God. Jesus didn't claim to be bringing back the "true" He claimed to be the Truth itself. You can't syncretise that.

Maybe Jesus didn't claim that. The gospels are not necessarily quoting Jesus accurately.

I look for contemporary evidence of Christianity's truth in claimed miracles and personal experiences and so forth.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Only one claimed to be God. Jesus didn't claim to be bringing back the "true" He claimed to be the Truth itself. You can't syncretise that.

Maybe Jesus didn't claim that. The gospels are not necessarily quoting Jesus accurately.

I look for contemporary evidence of Christianity's truth in claimed miracles and personal experiences and so forth.

Krishna is also seen as God by some followers. There is many teachings in the Bhagavad Gita that predate Christianity;

Chapter 10, Verse 3
He who knows Me as the unborn, as the beginningless, as the Supreme Lord of all the worlds-he, undeluded among men, is freed from all sins.

Chapter 10, Verse 4-5
Intelligence, knowledge, freedom from doubt and delusion, forgiveness, truthfulness, self-control and calmness, pleasure and pain, birth, death, fear, fearlessness, nonviolence, equanimity, satisfaction, austerity, charity, fame and infamy are created by Me alone.

Chapter 10, Verse 8
I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who know this perfectly engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts.

Thus it is man that makes God exclusive in a Name. All God's Names show us the path to our One God.

After all God's Name will be One, that name unfolds to us when we understand the name is 'Christ', 'Annointed One'.

Regards Tony

 

[cloudyday2]

Thus it is man that makes God exclusive in a Name. All God's Names show us the path to our One God.

I don't see any reason to assume one god. There may be one or several or none. Also there is no reason to assume that the gods want to be found or to guide humans even if they do exist. (Not trying to be negative of course... a bit of an unintended pun there with "negative" LOL)

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

I don't see any reason to assume one god. There may be one or several or none. Also there is no reason to assume that the gods want to be found or to guide humans even if they do exist. (Not trying to be negative of course... a bit of an unintended pun there with "negative" LOL)

LOL, they are all the good questions and it is great you are exploring them.

What is good to know is that Science was given to balance Faith. Thus true Faith will eventually be supported by science and vice versa.

Thus consider science is currently thinking that creation came from a single big bang. Also all light waves are seen from the white light source, only after refracted.

All the best, regards Tony

 

[cloudyday2]

LOL, they are all the good questions and it is great you are exploring them.

What is good to know is that Science was given to balance Faith. Thus true Faith will eventually be supported by science and vice versa.

Thus consider science is currently thinking that creation came from a single big bang. Also all light waves are seen from the white light source, only after refracted.

All the best, regards Tony

All evidence suggests that the universe was designed by committee IMO. So there is a good reason to expect to find at least enough gods to fill a conference room somewhere. Beer, pizza, and a lot of grumbling while an incompetent management god draws clouds and arrows on a white board.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

All evidence suggests that the universe was designed by committee IMO. So there is a good reason to expect to find at least enough gods to fill a conference room somewhere. Beer, pizza, and a lot of grumbling while an incompetent management god draws clouds and arrows on a white board.

Thus the old agree to disagree.

Regards Tony

 

[Sanoy]

Maybe Jesus didn't claim that. The gospels are not necessarily quoting Jesus accurately.

I look for contemporary evidence of Christianity's truth in claimed miracles and personal experiences and so forth.

Maybe He didn't claim this other thing, or that thing over there. That kind of doubt makes the entire religion useless for syncretism. You can't just doubt away every obstacle to syncretism until it syncs up.

 

[Sanoy]

Krishna is also seen as God by some followers. There is many teachings in the Bhagavad Gita that predate Christianity;

Chapter 10, Verse 3
He who knows Me as the unborn, as the beginningless, as the Supreme Lord of all the worlds-he, undeluded among men, is freed from all sins.

Chapter 10, Verse 4-5
Intelligence, knowledge, freedom from doubt and delusion, forgiveness, truthfulness, self-control and calmness, pleasure and pain, birth, death, fear, fearlessness, nonviolence, equanimity, satisfaction, austerity, charity, fame and infamy are created by Me alone.

Chapter 10, Verse 8
I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who know this perfectly engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts.

The structure of these verses certainly make you recall the NT, but their theology is vastly different. And it makes no difference to quote 3 similar structures in Hinduism as if the vast differences and mutually denying scriptures don't exist. The only response I get to those conflicts is a response oddly written in King James English "God doeth as He Willeth", and "regards".

10:3 vs Luke 13:3 "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." Acts 4:12 "And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

10:4-5 vs Galatians 5:22-23 "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law."

10:8 vs John 1:1-5 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome"