What would it take to disprove atheism?

[bhsmte]

The number of denominations is pretty huge, I'll admit. Unfortunately, many of them don't even teach from the bible. I believe some actually discourage it, and have people rely on interpretations from the pastor alone. Others focus too much on one aspect while paying little attention to what's important. My own view is to simply read God's word and pray, without the man-made religious aspects that end up confusing things.



Thank you for sharing your story!

You say they pay little attention to what is important. How are you sure your opinion on what is important, is better than someone else's?

 

[Deidre32]

You say they pay little attention to what is important. How are you sure your opinion on what is important, is better than someone else's?

Yea, that's a good point. And this is in no offense to you, personally halfsaved. But, it's a definite sticking point for me, when it comes to religion, in general. Not just Christianity. But, all religions...they seem to denote that one is 'better' than another. Everyone can't be right, so to me, that is why I tend to believe they are all man made.

Mankind has been worshipping 'gods' for centuries...long before Christianity. Long before any organizaed religions. Just seems like it's part of the human condition...to give the unknown, meaning. Science says...I don't know...and is ok with that. For as human beings, we don't know all the answers of the universe. Much of life is a mystery. But, for many, and I was once one of the many...I wanted or needed answers. ''God'' seems to fit for many people as a viable answer to what mankind can't answer himself.

I just don't feel it's necessary for me to live a positive and productive life anymore, to believe in something I can't see...to worship something I can't see...out of fear for where I may spend eternity.

This is just my view. Everyone has to find his/her own way.

 

[MoneyGuy]

Thank you for asking. Not many people are willing to listen. So thank you.

Your story intrigued me. Thank you for sharing.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

As for the texts of the bible, they've been through a lot of research for accuracy. They've been compared to each other, and they fit together even though they were written by different people inspired by God over thousands of years. I think some of the original texts still exist, so that we can see what they said as they were originally written. But indeed, people sometimes distort what it says in order to control people. That's why people need to be able to read it themselves and ask questions. Sadly, some religions discourage that.

The problem I have with the bible is that it is such an inefficient way for a god to deliver a message.

Surely, a being with infinite power, ability and wisdom could come up with a more convincing way of telling me I'm damned if I don't believe I am.

You see... I find the entire premise of a book containing a message from the Creator of the Universe to be completely ridiculous. I'm sorry, I really hope that doesn't offend anyone but that's how I feel. That's why I'm an atheist.

Think about it... These men who wrote the bible... Were they not also sinners? How do we know none of them were making things up? How do we know these aren't lies?

Why would God rely on people to pass on such crucial information when he could easily make his statements known to all in an instant?

I'm not buying it.... If your God needs me to know something, He needs to find a better way to say it.

 

[Aldebaran]

Yea, that's a good point. And this is in no offense to you, personally halfsaved. But, it's a definite sticking point for me, when it comes to religion, in general. Not just Christianity.

By "important things", I guess things like the existence of God in the first place, Christ's sacrifice for our sin nature, and our fellowship with Him. Some denominations (I'm going to get some hate mail for this!) focus on Jesus's earthly mother and they pray to her rather than to God, or they focus on their gathering together on a certain day of the week, or they focus on eating only certain kinds of foods, etc. But in scripture, we see that the big focus is that we are born as sinners and need the gift of Christ's death and resurrection in order to be reunited with God. It's after midnight and I'm tired, so I may not be describing all this as well as I should be.

But, all religions...they seem to denote that one is 'better' than another. Everyone can't be right, so to me, that is why I tend to believe they are all man made.

Christianity is actually not a "religion" as it normally is defined. Here's something I found that describes the difference better than I can:
Christianity is unique in the fact that it is the ONLY faith which is not a religion- as a 'religion'- by definition means "to be bound" by rules and regulations and rituals in order that one MAY attain salvation. (whatever their definition of salvation may be)
This is in stark contrast to the teachings of THE most anti-religious person there ever lived- Jesus the Christ.
Jesus taught that the truth would SET YOU FREE and that it would be faith ALONE in His sacrificial death and resurrection for our sins which would save us and NOT our good deeds.

"For it is by God's grace that you have been saved, through faith. It is not the result of your own efforts, but God's GIFT, so that no one can boast about it." (Ephesians 2: 8-9).

 

[Aldebaran]

I'm not buying it.... If your God needs me to know something, He needs to find a better way to say it.

He's God. He makes the rules.

 

[JGG]

Christianity is actually not a "religion" as it normally is defined. Here's something I found that describes the difference better than I can:
Christianity is unique in the fact that it is the ONLY faith which is not a religion- as a 'religion'- by definition means "to be bound" by rules and regulations and rituals in order that one MAY attain salvation. (whatever their definition of salvation may be)
This is in stark contrast to the teachings of THE most anti-religious person there ever lived- Jesus the Christ.
Jesus taught that the truth would SET YOU FREE and that it would be faith ALONE in His sacrificial death and resurrection for our sins which would save us and NOT our good deeds.

Scientology.

Ironically, they both behave as religions do, and claim to be religions when it benefits them.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

By "important things", I guess things like the existence of God in the first place, Christ's sacrifice for our sin nature, and our fellowship with Him. Some denominations (I'm going to get some hate mail for this!) focus on Jesus's earthly mother and they pray to her rather than to God, or they focus on their gathering together on a certain day of the week, or they focus on eating only certain kinds of foods, etc. But in scripture, we see that the big focus is that we are born as sinners and need the gift of Christ's death and resurrection in order to be reunited with God. It's after midnight and I'm tired, so I may not be describing all this as well as I should be.



Christianity is actually not a "religion" as it normally is defined. Here's something I found that describes the difference better than I can:
Christianity is unique in the fact that it is the ONLY faith which is not a religion- as a 'religion'- by definition means "to be bound" by rules and regulations and rituals in order that one MAY attain salvation. (whatever their definition of salvation may be)
This is in stark contrast to the teachings of THE most anti-religious person there ever lived- Jesus the Christ.
Jesus taught that the truth would SET YOU FREE and that it would be faith ALONE in His sacrificial death and resurrection for our sins which would save us and NOT our good deeds.

"For it is by God's grace that you have been saved, through faith. It is not the result of your own efforts, but God's GIFT, so that no one can boast about it." (Ephesians 2: 8-9).

That's a very self-serving definition of religion, and it's not accurate.

 

[Gladius]

This is a really nice post...so much so, I have tears in my eyes reading it.
I sometimes think...suppose I'm wrong...and Christians are right. Suppose, I'm right, and they're wrong. In the end, if there is a god, and he speaks to me...what would i say?

what would any of us say? You know?

I think about things like this.

See, I warned you.

Deidre, stay away from the boogeyman pushers, stay in the real world.

When God actually shows up then you can be expected to believe in her/it/him. Until then, they are of the same benefit to the world as Leprechauns.

 

[Gladius]

Well, I've always figured that if I believe in God and Jesus Christ, then I have nothing to lose in this life by believing, but everything to lose if I don't. He actually has spoken to us all through his word, and sometimes people claim that he speaks to them personally. Often it happens through thoughts and prayer. Sometimes it can be a feeling or revelation.

Thanks for the old Pascal's Wager argument Halfy.

Really.....

 

[GoldenBoy89]

He's God. He makes the rules.

Who's God? Where are these rules? I just see stories written by men.

 

[Chany]

Well, I've always figured that if I believe in God and Jesus Christ, then I have nothing to lose in this life by believing, but everything to lose if I don't.

Well, Allah supposedly doesn't like having one of his prophets being venerated as a god. So, you got quite a bit to lose if you choose to follow Christianity.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Question for the group: If you are an atheist, what would it take to convince you that there truly is "something" rather than "nothing"?

If by "something", you mean a divine "something", I'd first need to know just what you meant by a "god" or "goddess". I'd then need perceptual evidence that unambiguously points to the inductive conclusion that there is such a being.

It might not be possible, at least according to some definitions of God. If God is defined as "supernatural", there may be a philosophical problem here because to me anything that exists is automatically natural. IOWs, God too, if such a being exists, would have a nature, and couldn't really be "above" nature in any fundamental way.

I am beyond caring about this sort of test in any personal way. If a God exists, and God wants me to know that she exists, she'll know how to convince me, or know that it is impossible.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[JGG]

He's God. He makes the rules.

Didn't you just say Christianity isn't a religion because it isn't bound by rules. What rules are we talking about now?

 

[Golden Yak]

GoldenYak,

...so, you stopped sinning recently, then? Good for you!

I don't believe in sin.

Didn't you just say Christianity isn't a religion because it isn't bound by rules. What rules are we talking about now?

It amounted to a claim that Christianity is not a religion because its criteria for salvation are different from other religions' criteria for salvation.

Which not only doesn't stop it from being a religion, but is also something you could say about every faith out there.

 

[quatona]

What about the possibility of living in Hell for all eternity because you refused to believe? Wouldn't that at least cause you to see if maybe there is some possibility of God's existence?

No. How does a claim become more plausible when you decorate it with drama?

 

[quatona]

What would it take to disprove atheism?

It seems to me that the very moment you guys had defined "God" as exceptional, supernatural you had already given up on the possibility of proving Its existence. So, tbh, I see little chances.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Well, I've always figured that if I believe in God and Jesus Christ, then I have nothing to lose in this life by believing, but everything to lose if I don't. He actually has spoken to us all through his word, and sometimes people claim that he speaks to them personally. Often it happens through thoughts and prayer. Sometimes it can be a feeling or revelation.

So let me get this straight, just to be sure that I'm not misrepresenting your position: You believe in God and in Jesus Christ simply because of a wager that you've made? You believe out of fear of the consequences of not believing? Is that correct? I'm sorry if I'm misread you completely, but that's exactly how the above reads to me.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Well, I've always figured that if I believe in God and Jesus Christ, then I have nothing to lose in this life by believing, but everything to lose if I don't.

I have never figured that. I could very easily lose my integrity, both intellectual and ethical. I could lose everything -- my entire life -- to spineless obedience to falsehood.

And I am certain that I have this life, and no reason to think that I will have another.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Deidre32]

I have never figured that. I could very easily lose my integrity, both intellectual and ethical. I could lose everything -- my entire life -- to spineless obedience to falsehood.

And I am certain that I have this life, and no reason to think that I will have another.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Your comment here is inspiring, to me. Well said.