What would it take to disprove atheism?

[MoneyGuy]

What about the possibility of living in Hell for all eternity because you refused to believe? Wouldn't that at least cause you to see if maybe there is some possibility of God's existence?

This is the worst reason to force yourself to believe.

 

[Aldebaran]

"refused to believe"? I'd say such a phrasing shows a major flaw in your reasoning.

I do not "refuse" to believe... I just do not believe. Belief is not a choice.

If you had a young child that you were trying to keep from being burned, and you told him not to touch the fire or that he'd get burned, does the child simply not believe you, or does he refuse to listen to you and touches the flames anyway and get burned, even though he didn't believe you? Hint: Not believing he'd get burned doesn't change the reality that fire burns.

 

[Aldebaran]

This is the worst reason to force yourself to believe.

Maybe so. But there are other reasons to choose to believe, but just as with any other choice, there are consequences one way or the other. If I jump off a cliff thinking I can fly despite being warned that if I jump, I will shatter myself on the rocks below, my not believing that warning doesn't change reality. The fear put into me by the warning may cause me to rethink jumping, and fear can be a good motivator if that's the only one a person will accept.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Question for the group: If you are an atheist, what would it take to convince you that there truly is "something" rather than "nothing"?

Or is it possible? (I have a feeling that some loathe the concept of God so much, they could watch the seas part & they would STILL find a reason to doubt.....)

Well...heck...there's even some "believers" who could watch the seas part and still find a reason to doubt; remember Israel in the Wilderness?

The real problem is finding a God we...like.

Peace

 

[Aldebaran]

Well...heck...there's even some "believers" who could watch the seas part and still find a reason to doubt; remember Israel in the Wilderness?

The real problem is finding a God we...like.

Peace

Maybe you should stick with the God who...IS.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Maybe you should stick with the God who...IS.

halfsaved,

My friend, I was being tongue-in-cheek. What I intended to communicate was that more often than not, it isn't because people don't have enough evidence of the Lord God, but that when they encounter Him, they don't like what they find. Typically, people are looking for a God that can be one of the following:

1) Genie-in-a-Bottle
2) The Cosmic Vending Machine
3) The Best Buddy
4) Superman
5) The Great Equalizer

Guess what happens when some people find that God doesn't fit these descriptions?

 

[Jeremy E Walker]

halfsaved,

My friend, I was being tongue-in-cheek. What I intended to communicate was that more often than not, it isn't because people don't have enough evidence of the Lord God, but that when they encounter Him, they don't like what they find. Typically, people are looking for a God that can be one of the following:

1) Genie-in-a-Bottle
2) The Cosmic Vending Machine
3) The Best Buddy
4) Superman
5) The Great Equalizer

Guess what happens when some people find that God doesn't fit these descriptions?

They deny Him because they do not like Him. Is it not so marvelously simple for you and I?

Does not He who sees all give us so such a clear perspective?

 

[Chany]

Maybe so. But there are other reasons to choose to believe, but just as with any other choice, there are consequences one way or the other. If I jump off a cliff thinking I can fly despite being warned that if I jump, I will shatter myself on the rocks below, my not believing that warning doesn't change reality. The fear put into me by the warning may cause me to rethink jumping, and fear can be a good motivator if that's the only one a person will accept.

So, you go to mosque recently?

 

[Jeremy E Walker]

So, you go to mosque recently?

The fear of God is not something unique to Islam.

 

[Golden Yak]

They deny Him because they do not like Him.

Nonsense. Plenty of people accept realities that they don't like. I don't like the fact that there is war and disease in the world, or that crime affects me, but I accept that these things exist.

Liking God isn't even required to be a Christian, its not going to keep people from believing and worshiping, especially when threats and fear come into it.

Mostly we don't believe because there's no good reason to do so, guys. It's really as simple as that. I know you like to concoct scenarios where atheists are just big evil party animals desperately ignoring God so they can keep the good sinnin' times rolling, but that's an utter fabrication the faithful dreamt up to trash people who don't think like they do.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Nonsense. Plenty of people accept realities that they don't like. I don't like the fact that there is war and disease in the world, or that crime affects me, but I accept that these things exist.

Liking God isn't even required to be a Christian, its not going to keep people from believing and worshiping, especially when threats and fear come into it.

Mostly we don't believe because there's no good reason to do so, guys. It's really as simple as that. I know you like to concoct scenarios where atheists are just big evil party animals desperately ignoring God so they can keep the good sinnin' times rolling, but that's an utter fabrication the faithful dreamt up to trash people who don't think like they do.

GoldenYak,

...so, you stopped sinning recently, then? Good for you!

 

[Chany]

The fear of God is not something unique to Islam.

It's an illustration of the problem of Paschal's Wager and part of the reason the whole fear thing isn't a very good argument. At all.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Maybe so. But there are other reasons to choose to believe, but just as with any other choice, there are consequences one way or the other. If I jump off a cliff thinking I can fly despite being warned that if I jump, I will shatter myself on the rocks below, my not believing that warning doesn't change reality. The fear put into me by the warning may cause me to rethink jumping, and fear can be a good motivator if that's the only one a person will accept.

The threat of hell is not as serious or rather, as real as the threat of falling to your death if you jump off a cliff.

First off, an atheist thinking there is no god is not the same as you thinking you can fly if you jump off a cliff. You know you can't fly. The atheist doesn't know if god does or doesn't exist. No one knows this like they know they can't fly. There's no comparison.

Second, someone warning you not to jump off the cliff because you'll get hurt or die is not the same as someone warning you that if you don't believe in god, the ghost inside your body will go to a special place of torture and pain to spend eternity after you die.

To someone who doesn't believe that such a place exists, the warning sounds ridiculous.

 

[Aldebaran]

The threat of hell is not as serious or rather, as real as the threat of falling to your death if you jump off a cliff.

First off, an atheist thinking there is no god is not the same as you thinking you can fly if you jump off a cliff. You know you can't fly. The atheist doesn't know if god does or doesn't exist. No one knows this like they know they can't fly. There's no comparison.

Second, someone warning you not to jump off the cliff because you'll get hurt or die is not the same as someone warning you that if you don't believe in god, the ghost inside your body will go to a special place of torture and pain to spend eternity after you die.

To someone who doesn't believe that such a place exists, the warning sounds ridiculous.

It may sound ridiculous to someone who still doesn't believe in God, or an afterlife. But if those things are real, then is it actually ridiculous?

 

[Aldebaran]

halfsaved,
My friend, I was being tongue-in-cheek.

Sorry about the misunderstanding. Sometimes it's hard to tell in these forums.

 

[JGG]

It may sound ridiculous to someone who still doesn't believe in God, or an afterlife. But if those things are real, then is it actually ridiculous?

No moreso than a Flying Spaghetti Monster.

 

[Gladius]

So basically, you want God to be someone you can do tricks for you on command and meet your definition of what He is, rather than being what He is and you accepting Him as He is.



That's exactly what people will be saying as they worship the antichrist.
Revelation 13:1-2 "And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast." "And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?"

Wouldn't you rather believe in and worship the true God?

Here's the thing Halfy. A extraordinary claim requires extraordinary evidence.

Let me ask you a question. If tomorrow someone starts claiming they are the second (coming of) Jesus, what proof would you need to believe they were?

 

[Aldebaran]

Here's the thing Halfy. A extraordinary claim requires extraordinary evidence.

Let me ask you a question. If tomorrow someone starts claiming they are the second (coming of) Jesus, what proof would you need to believe they were?

It would depend on whether this person came in the way as described below:

(From 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17)
"For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord."

This describes how we will know that it is Jesus's second coming. If you want to know how to distinguish this from the coming of Antichrist, there is scripture for that as well, and most people will believe the Antichrist to be Jesus coming the second time.

 

[JGG]

It would depend on whether this person came in the way as described below:

(From 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17)
"For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord."

This describes how we will know that it is Jesus's second coming. If you want to know how to distinguish this from the coming of Antichrist, there is scripture for that as well, and most people will believe the Antichrist to be Jesus coming the second time.

So that guy in Mexico (can't remember his name)? I believe he claims to have fulfilled this.

 

[Gladius]

It would depend on whether this person came in the way as described below:

(From 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17)
"For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord."

This describes how we will know that it is Jesus's second coming. If you want to know how to distinguish this from the coming of Antichrist, there is scripture for that as well, and most people will believe the Antichrist to be Jesus coming the second time.

Great. Does this sound any more credible to you than my previous required proofs?

Just substitute zombies for destroying planets and heavenly trumpets for talking non-humans and we're in agreement.

But my question is, if this is the proof you would require for a second coming, why don't you require similar proof for the first one?