What Would Falsify the Flood? (2)

[AV1611VET]

Does jesus ever mention the trinity in the gospels? Or was it made up later?

No, but He comes close.

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

 

[AV1611VET]

AV, do you wish to influence people's perspective on these topics? Or are you just sharing your thoughts without caring the outcome? Serious question... I know some Christians believe they do their bit (talking) and the HS does the rest (convincing). Others believe God would have them doing the convincing themselves using logic etc.

Just wondering which side of that fence you are on.

That's actually a very good question, Sayer; and I've wondered that, myself.

I've seen others do nothing but quote Scripture, and I've seen others do everything but quote Scripture.

I consider myself as quoting Scripture, quoting doctrine, and giving my opinion, both educated and uneducated.

Of the three, I think I convey doctrine more than the other two.

 

[TLK Valentine]

No, but He comes close.

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

And two out of three ain't bad, right?

 

[Subduction Zone]

That was meant for you and 46.

Are you admitting atheism is a religion?

I would assume other religions already know we are monotheists, without that Shield of the Trinity.

Are you admitting that not playing football is a sport?

And no, if you speak with Muslims they will claim that you are not monotheists. That is one of the problems they have with Christianity.

 

[AV1611VET]

And no, if you speak with Muslims they will claim that you are not monotheists. That is one of the problems they have with Christianity.

Interesting.

I didn't know that.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Interesting.

I didn't know that.

Really?

For example:

Monotheism – One God - The Religion of Islam

The concept of a trinity inherent in most Christian denominations ostensibly includes aspects of plurality. The belief that one God is some how three divinities (father, son, and holy spirit) contradicts the concept of Monotheism inherent in Islam, where the Oneness of God is unquestionable. Some Christian groups, including those known as Unitarians believe that God is One and cannot be God and human at the same time. They take the words of Jesus in John 17:3, “the One True God” literally. However, the vast majority of Christians do not share this belief.

 

[dad]

Really?

For example:

Monotheism – One God - The Religion of Islam

Gabriel supposedly gave Mohamed his revelations. Too bad it was not the bible Gabriel, or an angel of God.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Gabriel supposedly gave Mohamed his revelations. Too bad it was not the bible Gabriel, or an angel of God.

How do you know? Were you there?

 

[dad]

How do you know? Were you there?

How do I know what? That Gabriel was not speaking? Just look at what was said. Does it agree with what He was known to say in the bible?

Ga 1:8 -But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

 

[TLK Valentine]

How do I know what? That Gabriel was not speaking? Just look at what was said. Does it agree with what He was known to say in the bible?

Ga 1:8 -But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

As a matter of fact, it does.

If you can show what Gabriel said in the Bible that disagrees with what he says in the Koran, let's discuss it.

 

[EternalDragon]

So it is a place of physical torment:



This seems to be describing fiery torment, so why did you get so huffy when that was brought up, and why did you say this?



Are you having trouble remembering what Hell is supposed to be like?
If the latter quote is your real belief of Hell, I have nothing to fear. If the former quote is the true nature of Hell then it is disingenuous to claim that you're giving your children a balanced view of the issue and letting them choose freely when you are telling them that if they don't choose the same as you they are sent to a place to be tormented in flame for eternity.

So which is it? Is it being "tormented in this flame" or "not actual 'tormented'"?

So are they real flames?

But yes, that is what I said. I meant like not being tormented by a stick, by demons or by God.

I am not getting what you are saying. I have taught them nothing like that. I have shown them what the bible says, what evolution says, what Hinduism says, etc. They are free to choose their own path.

But from the bible, everyone is on the path to hell. There is no "if you don't choose this, you will go to hell". Everyone is already bound for that place whether they believe it or not. That is from the bible, not me.

 

[Black Akuma]

I have shown them what the bible says, what evolution says, what Hinduism says, etc.

I'm curious - which of the Hinduism sects did you talk to them about? All of them? Did you read them all of the Marhuburata? The Upanishads? Did you let them attend a few services at your local mandir?

 

[Atheos canadensis]

So are they real flames?

But yes, that is what I said. I meant like not being tormented by a stick, by demons or by God.

What is wrong with you? Why can't you directly answer a question? In your concept of Hell, is there physical torment like physical confinement or is there not?

I am not getting what you are saying. I have taught them nothing like that. I have shown them what the bible says, what evolution says, what Hinduism says, etc. They are free to choose their own path.

What aren't you getting? You say they are free to choose their own path, which I believe. But it is not the balanced choice you're pretending when the only two options are the Bible or Hell.

But from the bible, everyone is on the path to hell. There is no "if you don't choose this, you will go to hell". Everyone is already bound for that place whether they believe it or not. That is from the bible, not me.

This is irrelevant to the point that the choice is not balanced. Whether choosing wrong sets one on the path to Hell or not choosing the Bible causes one to continue on the path to Hell, the result is that not choosing the Bible means Hell. Not a balanced option.

 

[EternalDragon]

What is wrong with you? Why can't you directly answer a question? In your concept of Hell, is there physical torment like physical confinement or is there not?

What aren't you getting? You say they are free to choose their own path, which I believe. But it is not the balanced choice you're pretending when the only two options are the Bible or Hell.

This is irrelevant to the point that the choice is not balanced. Whether choosing wrong sets one on the path to Hell or not choosing the Bible causes one to continue on the path to Hell, the result is that not choosing the Bible means Hell. Not a balanced option.

Do you want the bible verses again? Luke 16 describes hell.

It doesn't matter what you think is balanced or not. That is what the bible teaches. You are free to believe it or not.

 

[Atheos canadensis]

Do you want the bible verses again? Luke 16 describes hell.

Wow. I understand why you run away from all the threads where we try to get you to talk about science, but I'm trying to talk to you about your belief. Do you or do you not think Hell involves physical torment? It is an exceedingly simple question. Luke 16 describes fiery torment. But you ask me (for some reason) if the flames are literal or not. So clearly just quoting the scripture is not good enough.

So, ED, Hell: physical torment or not?

It doesn't matter what you think is balanced or not. That is what the bible teaches. You are free to believe it or not.

I'm not disputing that it is what the Bible teaches. I'm disputing that you are presenting your children with a balanced choice. When one choice carries the threat of eternal punishment, it is not a balanced choice. I don't expect you to change how you educate your children, but don't pretend you're giving them a balanced choice, even if it is a free choice.

 

[Black Akuma]

And I'd still like to know how your 'balanced choice' presents the other religions, ED. There's only, like...a thousand or so out there, so that must be some lesson plan.

Ever take them to a Shinto shrine?

Maybe stop by your local Church of Scientology? Read them a little L. Ron Hubbard?

Surely, you've taken them to a Yule festival, let them see what the Pagans have to offer.

I mean, you are giving them a fair and balanced representation of the other religions, right? You've studied them well enough, of course, you can present them with just as much fairness and understanding as you do your own, so your kids make a completely objective decision.

 

[dad]

As a matter of fact, it does.

If you can show what Gabriel said in the Bible that disagrees with what he says in the Koran, let's discuss it.

Gabriel said it would be so many years till the messiah came, and then got killed.
Dan 9:25 - Therfor wite thou, and perseyue; fro the goyng out of the word, that Jerusalem be bildid eft, til to Crist, the duyk, schulen be seuene woukis of yeeris and two and sixti woukis of yeeris; and eft the street schal be bildid, and wallis, in the angwisch of tymes.
9:25 -Know, therefore, and discern that seven weeks [of years] will elapse between the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Yerushalayim until an anointed prince comes.
Gabe also said this..

30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Gabriel said it would be so many years till the messiah came, and then got killed.
Dan 9:25 - Therfor wite thou, and perseyue; fro the goyng out of the word, that Jerusalem be bildid eft, til to Crist, the duyk, schulen be seuene woukis of yeeris and two and sixti woukis of yeeris; and eft the street schal be bildid, and wallis, in the angwisch of tymes.
9:25 -Know, therefore, and discern that seven weeks [of years] will elapse between the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Yerushalayim until an anointed prince comes.

It wasn't Gabriel who said that to Daniel. Try harder next time.

Gabe also said this..

30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

And what in the Koran contradicts this?

 

[Mr Strawberry]

But it is not the balanced choice you're pretending when the only two options are the Bible or Hell.
.

This is a neat summary of the background many creationists come from, and explains the terrifyingly narrow and poorly informed worldview we are familiar with seeing in their posts.

 

[EternalDragon]

Wow. I understand why you run away from all the threads where we try to get you to talk about science, but I'm trying to talk to you about your belief. Do you or do you not think Hell involves physical torment? It is an exceedingly simple question. Luke 16 describes fiery torment. But you ask me (for some reason) if the flames are literal or not. So clearly just quoting the scripture is not good enough.

So, ED, Hell: physical torment or not?

It does not matter what I believe but what matters is what scripture states. You can read it yourself. That is the best course you can take.

I'm not disputing that it is what the Bible teaches. I'm disputing that you are presenting your children with a balanced choice. When one choice carries the threat of eternal punishment, it is not a balanced choice. I don't expect you to change how you educate your children, but don't pretend you're giving them a balanced choice, even if it is a free choice.

Again, you don't seem to get it. There is no choice that carries a threat of eternal punishment. The bible states all humans are bound for hell to begin with. The only choice is whether you want to accept God's pardon or not.

Choosing to believe the Bible is a free choice. Choosing to accept the pardon is a free choice. Choosing another religion altogether or no religion is a free choice. No one is forcing anyone to believe anything, certainly not me.