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What would be the evidence for ex nihilo creation?

AV1611VET

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AV1611 -

Carbon 14 dating is only one method of figuring out the age of something. And Chalnoth has covered that quite adequately.

I will not, will not, will not discuss radiometric dating with anyone (I don't even discuss it with my pastor). I have given people the benefit of a doubt about the age of the universe (since it doesn't conflict with Scripture), now you want me to agree with you about history, and I will not do that, as that does conflict with Scripture.

You guys just keep ignoring my signature --- and it makes for repetition after repetition after repetition.
 
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AV1611VET

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And I showed you that this also mean that ex nihilo creation did not happen.

The problem is that you respond to this with nothing but handwaving.

You showed me ex nihilo creation didn't happen???

Okie-doke, you want me to change my signature now, I suppose?
 
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EvoDan

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...You guys just keep ignoring my signature --- and it makes for repetition after repetition after repetition.

You guys just keep ignoring science--- and it makes for repetition after repetition after repetition.
 
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AV1611VET

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i simply see no way that a Christian who claims that God is Creation, Sustainer and Judge of the universe can be content with willful ignorance. It's God's world and it displays some of His attributes, why would you not want to listen to Him speaking?

He put what He had to say in writing. Anything after that (specifically 96AD) had better not conflict with it, or it's wrong --- dead wrong.
 
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RealityCheck

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I will not, will not, will not discuss radiometric dating with anyone (I don't even discuss it with my pastor). I have given people the benefit of a doubt about the age of the universe (since it doesn't conflict with Scripture), now you want me to agree with you about history, and I will not do that, as that does conflict with Scripture.

You guys just keep ignoring my signature --- and it makes for repetition after repetition after repetition.

I ignore your signature because it's wrong.
 
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AV1611VET

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As others have said, if an ex nihilo creation is consistent with any and all evidence, known and unknown, then why believe it to begin with?

God believes in it --- that's good enough for me.

[bible]Job 26:7[/bible][bible]Hebrews 11:3[/bible]
 
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nvxplorer

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I disagree. It could be detected as an abrupt stop in history or reality. And so it's ruled out entirely as a possibility at any point after inflation.
I'm not sure what you mean here, but I'm intrigued.

True nothingness is an illogical term. I don't believe it can be wrestled with even philosophically.

What you describe as an "abrubt stop" would be indicated by an abrupt change. Change implies time, and since no time can pass through "nothingness," the statement self-implodes. Similarly, all of history could be dotted with "periods" of nothingness, with the universe "returning" at the same point it exited. This statement is meaningless as well, because we could claim that nothingness "coexists" with reality on a linear scale.

We can imagine the universe alternately "popping out of and back into" existence, but again, such a thought implies the passage of time, and in the context of nothingness, is nonsensical.

Nothingness is completely contrary to what we know and are: existence. As such, any attempt to conceptualize nothingness cannot be undertaken.

The closest to nothingness I can imagine is my existence. I can say that I "experienced" nothingness before I was born, and I will "experience" it again after death, but I trust you see the difficulty with such ideas.
 
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Chalnoth

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I'm not sure what you mean here, but I'm intrigued.

True nothingness is an illogical term. I don't believe it can be wrestled with even philosophically.

What you describe as an "abrubt stop" would be indicated by an abrupt change. Change implies time, and since no time can pass through "nothingness," the statement self-implodes. Similarly, all of history could be dotted with "periods" of nothingness, with the universe "returning" at the same point it exited. This statement is meaningless as well, because we could claim that nothingness "coexists" with reality on a linear scale.
Nah, what I mean is stuff like no radiocarbon dates past 6000 years could be calibrated by independent dating methods, and no stars past 6000 light years would be visible. Stuff like that.
 
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OdwinOddball

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God believes in it --- that's good enough for me.

[bible]Job 26:7[/bible][bible]Hebrews 11:3[/bible]

No, as with all your beliefs, you BELIEVE your god believes it. You have no evidence that would allow you to claim you know it. Unless you claim that you are a direct conduit to your god, and have been authorized by him/her/it to speak in its name?
 
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AV1611VET

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No, as with all your beliefs, you BELIEVE your god believes it. You have no evidence that would allow you to claim you know it. Unless you claim that you are a direct conduit to your god, and have been authorized by him/her/it to speak in its name?

How would you know what Einstein believed, unless he put it down in writing?
 
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AV1611VET

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You can repeat it as much as you like. Won't make it right, no matter how many times you say it.

I agree, that's why our motto is: The Bible says it --- that settles it.
 
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RealityCheck

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How would you know what Einstein believed, unless he put it down in writing?


He did put it in writing, and it has his name on it.

I even have one of his books collecting his beliefs.

Where is God's name as author of the Bible?
 
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AV1611VET

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Ah, then the KJV must be wrong because it was composed in 1611.

No --- I said if it conflicted with it --- it's wrong.

Photosynthesis, for example, does not conflict with Scripture that I know of; therefore, IMO, photosynthesis is correct.
 
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