What were we, before the fall?

gaweatherford · Jan 21, 2005

What's your take on the following facts in Genesis, and the fall of man?

Fact 1: God warned Adam his life would be in jeopordy if he ate of the tree of "Knowledge of Good and evil".

Fact 2: Adam and Eve were not ashamed of being naked prior to the fall.

Fact 3: Satan told Eve that if she ate of the tree, her eyes would be opened and she would be as gods and understand good and evil.

Fact 4: Both Adam and Eve ate of this tree and they realized they were naked and ashamed of it.

Fact 5: God said: Behold, man is become as one of us, to know good and evil"....

The opinions here will most likely differ, but that is what I'm after. I'm specifically interested in everyones thoughts for how they think man was mentally and physiologically before the event of the fall. Include such remarks, as what you might think was man's understanding of himself and his demeanor (towards the issue of being naked and why). It is a very interesting subject and I do have an opinion, but I'm sure it "boldly goes where no man has gone before". I'd like to hear other's and they're theories, of what transpired here; for what is thought of when reading these events in context and trying to evaluate. I have always had a keen interest in this particular event of man. I think it is very understated and rarely expounded on. I know it is an event that just does'nt give us a lot of details to make fair assumptions, but I thought it would be interesting as a post.

reformedfan · Jan 21, 2005

Adam was perfect, no need of a savior, had true knowledge, righteousness & holiness; he was our federal representative as well as the first priest, prophet & king. I think he went to hell after he ate of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good & evil. God stated "dying you shall die" in Hebrew in Gen 2:17, which Adam knew would mean Spiritual, physical, and eternal death.
Is that whatchu mean??

Ave Maria · Jan 22, 2005

We were just normal people. We were not perfect. We did have disease, aging, and death. We just simply were not fully spiritually aware.

gaweatherford · Jan 22, 2005

reformedfan said:
Adam was perfect, no need of a savior, had true knowledge, righteousness & holiness; he was our federal representative as well as the first priest, prophet & king. I think he went to hell after he ate of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good & evil. God stated "dying you shall die" in Hebrew in Gen 2:17, which Adam knew would mean Spiritual, physical, and eternal death.
Is that whatchu mean??

As I said in my post; this is a hard subject to comment on because it is the "beginning". I've taken Gen 2:17 as you have explained it also; but I've also considered it to mean, when saying- " If thou eatest you will surely die", that Adam was created not to die in the first place and the death here in gen 2:17 refers to death as we know it now (1st death). I think on these lines because the tree of everlasting life (Gen. 2:9, 3:22) was not forbidden to eat of.........just the tree of good and evil.

gaweatherford · Jan 22, 2005

Holly3278 said:
We were just normal people. We were not perfect. We did have disease, aging, and death. We just simply were not fully spiritually aware.

I feel that we may have been a little differant than normal (as we know ourselves today), before the fall that is. Two points that make me feel this way are the fact that we were not forbidden to eat of the tree of everlasting life
(please correct/If wrong), and the fact that we were not ashamed of being naked.

armothe · Jan 25, 2005

God created us in His image and deemed us "very good". Humans are naive, but not for long. It's only a matter of time before we are able to distinguish between good and evil, resulting in sin.

-A

CrossingthroughtheBlood · Jan 29, 2005

Ok. You have the Satanic fall and acatastrophe happens - the Earth is plunged into darkness and becomes formleess and void. the Trinity start a work of restoration - "Let there be Light" - crowned with the creation of human beings - who are clothed in the glory of God - they are designed to be restorative agents and have dominion over the Earh and ultimately the Devil - who would have been dealt with - "be fruitful,multiply and subdue the earth...but

Jamza · Jan 30, 2005

So, just as a related topic, do you think there was first a heavenly fall (satan etc.) and then a human one? COz I've always wondered why Satan the rebel angel was allowed to mess with humanity in the first place.

CrossingthroughtheBlood · Feb 12, 2005

So, just as a related topic, do you think there was first a heavenly fall (satan etc.) and then a human one?

Yes - if we had not fallen - satan would have been condemned at the beginning not the end.

eaglex · Mar 5, 2005

We were in prefect fellowship with GOD. We walked withHIMand talked with HIM. wE NAMED THE ANIMALS and enjoyed a prefect world . This is what will be waiting for us when we are in HEAVEN AND IN THE NEW EARTH.

DrBubbaLove · Mar 5, 2005

Goin no where many have not already been.

Fact1: So humans were original made immortal and because of sin, death entered the world. A physical death, as in mortality ("You will die"). And a spiritual death, a separation from God (out of the Garden, can no longer walk with God). They UNDID what was perfect. Because of Adams sin, each of our first parents and we being their seed, are in need of some way to be redeem to God (Christ).

Fact2: As perfect creations with their body and spirit in perfect harmony, there would be no sin and so no reason to be ashamed. It is only after Adam sinned that the disunity between body and spirit made them ashamed.

Fact3: Yes that is what Satan told Eve. Which makes what they did a sin of pride. You can be like God! Much like the pride causing the fall of Satan and other angels.

Fact4: Yes that is what is the story says. But you are looking too literally I think. The shame results from the state of disunity between body and spirit, something they did not have before. So being naked before would have no shame associated with it. It is only when sin corrupts the body that the conflict between body and spirit bring shame. That conflict was not there before, so there would be no shame in being naked. The seeing referenced here is not like removing blinders that prevented them from being able to see that they had no clothes.

Fact5: Again, yes that is what the story says. But be very careful in giving it too much literal emphasis. God and the angels know the literal difference between good and evil, so does Satan and his band of fallen angels. Knowing here must mean something deeper than oh, this is good and that is bad. It does not mean Adam and Eve were blissfully ignorant before they sinned and the act somehow instantly educated them. In fact they knew that they were not suppose to do the one thing they were told not to do, Eve tells Satan that. Like the fallen angels before him, Adam CHOOSES to do it anyway. It was their sin that act of pride that then causes them to change. Their sin transforms the union of their bodies and spirits such that it could then be said they knew good and evil. Before they only knew good because of the union. After the fall they lose this unity of body and spirit. They then could know good and evil because in their disunion the body could sometimes win over the spirit, and that is what causes us all to be inclined to choose evil. In it is only in harmony that while still free to choose, we are no longer so inclined.

childofGod31 · May 13, 2006

I think that before the fall, Adam had a glorified body. He was shining in the glory of God. And so he wasn't naked because of that. When he sinned, the glory left his body and he was exposed, naked and ashamed because he became naked. (The light went out and exposed his nakedness)

Easystreet · May 19, 2006

I like to keep things simple. Before the fall there wasnt a need for a redeemer. No law was broken therefore no substitute was needed.
God is the one that is sovereign. We are his subjects lost or saved. Once Adam and Eve sinned we need help. God was the only one to help. He created everything and gave Adam and Eve the ability to choose good or evil even in their innocence state. God is Holy and we are taught in Scripture that because of Gods holiness we do not have a chance. So, to solve that issue God Himself had to die for us and He did. Jesus is God. Now, we can regain fellowship with a Holy God through Jesus Christ.
Isnt that just wonderful.
The most interesting point of view on Adam was that he had water in his vanes and when he fell it became blood. I wont say any more on that. It seems a bit much on the preposterous side of thinking.

hlaltimus · May 24, 2006

We were, (In Adam the first,) perfect terrestrial beings, but mutably perfect. This is what Adam was but not what he was destined for. Adam was made a terrestrial creature but was intended to become a celestial/terrestrial creature and fell before this could take place. We were intended to bear the image of God by housing His very Person and that would require a double status of existence in both time and eternity, hence the necessity for a terrestrial/celestial being. This destiny is also why God is extending salvation to humanity and not to angels...We still need to achieve our target destiny while they were made at their pinnacle of power. Through the salvation offered in Christ Jesus we will arrive at this destiny in a round about way. A lost person is entirely terrestrial and will accordingly perish with this terrestrial orb and its entire universe as Peter tells us in his second epistle. A genuine, born-again Christian here and now is terrestrial in his or her physical man/woman while being celestial in their redeemed spirit. At death this redeemed human spirit will go from being a physically terrestrial and celestial spirit faculty to being a celestial faculty/body only while awaiting the resurrection of the just for their new physical bodies. This is a little confusing, but you will notice that Lazarus had a finger, for instance, while in Paradise with Abraham even though his physical finger was decomposing back on Earth in a grave! Therefore he had a body but not a physical one. Lazarus got what Adam never achieved before his fall, but lacked what Adam had prior to his death. Anyway, after that resurrection he or she will become that destined celestial/terrestrial person and what a day that will be. Let's not miss it.

march56 · Jun 7, 2006

Adam and Eve were immortal before the fall. They lacked nothing.....except good judgement. They were duped into beleiving the lie told them in the garden, which was a perfect lie. Half true and half false. True they would aquire knowledge (of a bad kind ) and false; that they wouldn't die (right away!).
I don't beleive this (the fall) was any accident or that it wasn't part of Gods plan. I do think that it was necessary for development of mankind, like a proving ground. And obviously the ingredient of obedience was lacking in Adam and Eve and that is the big point! There is something about this very item; obedience with a free will ,that I beleive God has plans for overall.
It does become difficult when you consider the extent of evil in the world and the unbeleivable atrocities suffered by men while on this earth. None of it appears to be fair and it certainly is not! But it should serve the purpose of eliminating any notion we may have of this earth being a better place! Sorry I didn't quote scripture to go along with my rambling I just got caught up in the subject.
-M.C.

OldWiseGuy · Jun 22, 2006

In order to understand the fall of Eve and then of Adam, or anything else in the bible, you need to understand what occurred before they were created. That will reveal why they were created, and why they were created in the way that they were created. The way that they were created is the perfect key to understanding a whole bunch of stuff.

beloved57 · Jun 24, 2006

gaweatherford said:
What's your take on the following facts in Genesis, and the fall of man?

Fact 1: God warned Adam his life would be in jeopordy if he ate of the tree of "Knowledge of Good and evil".

Fact 2: Adam and Eve were not ashamed of being naked prior to the fall.

Fact 3: Satan told Eve that if she ate of the tree, her eyes would be opened and she would be as gods and understand good and evil.

Fact 4: Both Adam and Eve ate of this tree and they realized they were naked and ashamed of it.

Fact 5: God said: Behold, man is become as one of us, to know good and evil"....

The opinions here will most likely differ, but that is what I'm after. I'm specifically interested in everyones thoughts for how they think man was mentally and physiologically before the event of the fall. Include such remarks, as what you might think was man's understanding of himself and his demeanor (towards the issue of being naked and why). It is a very interesting subject and I do have an opinion, but I'm sure it "boldly goes where no man has gone before". I'd like to hear other's and they're theories, of what transpired here; for what is thought of when reading these events in context and trying to evaluate. I have always had a keen interest in this particular event of man. I think it is very understated and rarely expounded on. I know it is an event that just does'nt give us a lot of details to make fair assumptions, but I thought it would be interesting as a post.

you say

Fact 1: God warned Adam his life would be in jeopordy if he ate of the tree of "Knowledge of Good and evil".

however the scripture says in gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die! judging from this verse, Adam's sin was inevatible and decreed by God, God did not say, if you sin, but in the day you eatest ! God decreed the fall of Adam for own wise and holy purposes...

billwald · Jun 27, 2006

Don't see how anyone can use "fact" to describe anything aboutg the Garden story.

How were A&E expected to evaluate statements made by God and the snake if they didn't know the difference between good and evil?

Wasn't the snake's statement accurate?

beloved57 · Jun 28, 2006

reformedfan said:
Adam was perfect, no need of a savior, had true knowledge, righteousness & holiness; he was our federal representative as well as the first priest, prophet & king. I think he went to hell after he ate of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good & evil. God stated "dying you shall die" in Hebrew in Gen 2:17, which Adam knew would mean Spiritual, physical, and eternal death.
Is that whatchu mean??

Arthur pink in his divine covenants /adamic covenant believes adam went to hell, I believe adam was one of Gods elect ! In fact he is in the geneology of christ, look @ lk 3

23Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph,
the son of Heli, 24the son of Matthat,
the son of Levi, the son of Melki,
the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph,
25the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos,
the son of Nahum, the son of Esli,
the son of Naggai, 26the son of Maath,
the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein,
the son of Josech, the son of Joda,
27the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa,
the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel,
the son of Neri, 28the son of Melki,
the son of Addi, the son of Cosam,
the son of Elmadam, the son of Er,
29the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer,
the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat,
the son of Levi, 30the son of Simeon,
the son of Judah, the son of Joseph,
the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim,
31the son of Melea, the son of Menna,
the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan,
the son of David, 32the son of Jesse,
the son of Obed, the son of Boaz,
the son of Salmon,[d] the son of Nahshon,
33the son of Amminadab, the son of Ram,[e]
the son of Hezron, the son of Perez,
the son of Judah, 34the son of Jacob,
the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham,
the son of Terah, the son of Nahor,
35the son of Serug, the son of Reu,
the son of Peleg, the son of Eber,
the son of Shelah, 36the son of Cainan,
the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem,
the son of Noah, the son of Lamech,
37the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch,
the son of Jared, the son of Mahalalel,
the son of Kenan, 38the son of Enosh,
the son of Seth, the son of Adam,
the son of God.

wtopneuma · Jul 8, 2006

gaweatherford said:
What's your take on the following facts in Genesis, and the fall of man?

Fact 1: God warned Adam his life would be in jeopordy if he ate of the tree of "Knowledge of Good and evil".

Fact 2: Adam and Eve were not ashamed of being naked prior to the fall.

Fact 3: Satan told Eve that if she ate of the tree, her eyes would be opened and she would be as gods and understand good and evil.

Fact 4: Both Adam and Eve ate of this tree and they realized they were naked and ashamed of it.

Fact 5: God said: Behold, man is become as one of us, to know good and evil"....

The opinions here will most likely differ, but that is what I'm after. I'm specifically interested in everyones thoughts for how they think man was mentally and physiologically before the event of the fall. Include such remarks, as what you might think was man's understanding of himself and his demeanor (towards the issue of being naked and why). It is a very interesting subject and I do have an opinion, but I'm sure it "boldly goes where no man has gone before". I'd like to hear other's and they're theories, of what transpired here; for what is thought of when reading these events in context and trying to evaluate. I have always had a keen interest in this particular event of man. I think it is very understated and rarely expounded on. I know it is an event that just does'nt give us a lot of details to make fair assumptions, but I thought it would be interesting as a post.

They were as babies in relation to sin. Remember the temptation was to know both good and evil. They could not know evil without experiencing evil. Until God told them to not eat of this tree, there was no law. Paul, in Romans said that that the law is the revealer of sin. This is why babies who do wrongs will still go to heaven because they have no understanding of the law and therefore have not sinned though they have done wrong.

What were we, before the fall?

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