What was Jesus’ purpose if sins were forgiven before His Incarnation?

[Brightfame52]

For whatever it might be worth to you, @Jesus is YHWH and I are at polar opposites on many things. I do not here defend his beliefs, but his reputation. There is nothing to be gained by insulting him.


It is not uncommon for me to be identified as a Calvinist, or Reformed, as I love TULIP (all five) and the five solas, and pretty much all the doctrinal particulars of Calvinism, particularly the basics, such as the absolute Sovereignty of God. But I only call myself Reformed so that people know at the outset, pretty much where my beliefs are —I did not learn what I believe from other Reformed or Calvinists.

SO:

If your question uses "died for" to mean that God intended to save everyone, or that he intended to save a random bunch of people, but nobody in particular, then NO, I do not believe that.

If your question uses "died for" to mean that everything that Calvary did for the elect is the same as what it did for the reprobate, then NO, I do not believe that.

If your question uses "died for" to mean that Calvary has certain effects upon the reprobate, but not salvation and not payment nor forgiveness of their sins then, yes, I agree with that.

If your question uses "for" to indicate that salvation is "offered" to the reprobate, then I reluctantly say, "yes", though I don't like the terminology of "offer", as it is misleading.

Do you believe Jesus died for people who are never saved. never become believers ? Yes or No

 

[Brightfame52]

Actually its you that doesn't have the backbone not me as you are projecting again. It is actually you that ran away from the other forum carm when I confronted your theology in front of all the calvinists who agreed with me and your little frien that gave you rep points 24/7 and followed you around everywhere. if you want I can provide the link so everyone can see foe themselves what really happened.

Do you believe Jesus died for people who are never saved. never become believers ? Yes or No

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Do you believe Jesus died for people who are never saved. never become believers ? Yes or No

Do you know the definition of insanity? yes or no

 

[Brightfame52]

Do you know the definition of insanity? yes or no

I say NO to the question, see its easy, you dont have to be scared. Now:

Do you believe Jesus died for people who are never saved. never become believers ? Yes or No

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

I say NO to the question, see its easy, you dont have to be scared. Now:

Do you believe Jesus died for people who are never saved. never become believers ? Yes or No

Its doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.

Let me help you understand what that means.

It would be like you continuing to ask the same question over and over again ( that has been answered and ignored by you) and expecting a different result from me asking the same question again as you have been doing for the past 2 days.

hope this helps !!!

 

[anetazo]

Only the blood of Jesus can forgive sins. Christian people repent sins to God and be forgiven. The flesh body is sinful. There is no incarceration. Jesus resurrected after 3 days in tomb. Jesus sits at right hand of God. Hebrews 2:9. But we see Jesus , who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor, that He by the grace of God should taste death for every man. Satan is death. Jesus was crucified and defeated satan. Christian people have grace. We can repent and be forgiven. If Jesus didn't die on cross. Thier would be judgement and wrath for sin. God judges sin. Jesus crucifixion gave Christian people Grace and repentance. Without it, we are doomed. Get the picture. 2:14. For as much then as children are par takers of flesh and blood, He also Himself like wise took part of the same ; that through death He might destroy him, that had power of death that is, the devil. Satan held people in Bondage. When Jesus was crucified. Christian people could repent sins to God and be forgiven. Before, Jesus was crucified, thiers no way to blot out sins. Jesus was that one time sacrifice of Lamb. Jesus is the lamb of God. We are free. Jesus gave His life !!.

 

[Brightfame52]

Its doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.

Let me help you understand what that means.

It would be like you continuing to ask the same question over and over again ( that has been answered and ignored by you) and expecting a different result from me asking the same question again as you have been doing for the past 2 days.

hope this helps !!!

Again you scared to speak whats in your heart, because you know it will shame you.

Do you believe Jesus died for people who are never saved. never become believers ? Yes or No

 

[Brightfame52]

anetazo​

When Jesus was crucified. Christian people could repent sins to God and be forgiven.

Arent people who Christ died for forgiven on the sole basis that He shed His Blood for them without them doing anything for it ? Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Before, Jesus was crucified, thiers no way to blot out sins.

What about the old testament saints, believers, did they have their sins blotted out by Christ before He came and died ? Isa 43:25

25 I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.

Ps 103:10-12

10 He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.

11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.

12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

 

[FreeinChrist]

ADVISOR HAT

This thread is closed for staff review​

 

[George95]

MOD HAT ON

This thread is being reopened and a thread cleanup has been comepleted. Let's continue the discussion without flaming and goading others.

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[FredVB]

Sins are forgiven of those who had the justice that must come from God who is absolutely righteous borne by Christ in atonement for us who come to him with repentant faith and are in Christ. God wants to forgive, but that way is necessary. There were those before Christ came who had this faith that this applied to, just as there were some living in places where news of Christ did not reach who did respond to the evidence of creation which is all around that we are without excuse to not see it, and those ones came to repentant faith that this applied to. We are supposed to still reach many more with what we should say about Jesus Christ.

 

[Rescued One]

...Before, Jesus was crucified, thiers no way to blot out sins. Jesus was that one time sacrifice of Lamb. Jesus is the lamb of God. We are free. Jesus gave His life !!.Romans 4

Romans 4
Abraham's Justification by Faith

(Genesis 15:1-7; Galatians 3:1-9; Hebrews 11:8-19; James 2:14-26)

1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

9Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. 10How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. 11And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: 12And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

Abraham Receives the Promise

(Genesis 15:8-21; Numbers 34:1-15)

13For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: 15Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

16Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, 17(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. 18Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations; according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb: 20He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; 21And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. 23Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; 24But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; 25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

 

[Rescued One]

Faith in Jesus' blood is given by God:

Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[ralliann]

Title says it all. Also, just to start off, I am a believer but I always have questions like these pop up in my head when I read the OT. I was reading the Psalms tonight and the Sons of Korah and David both talk about their delight in the Lord for his forgiveness of sins and how He makes those who love Him righteous. If God forgave the sins of those who love Him before sending His Son, and made people righteous, then why did we need Jesus in the first place?

To gain inheritance in the next world, the next life, by his resurrection from the dead. We do not have hope for just this life..

 

[Rescued One]

Title says it all. Also, just to start off, I am a believer but I always have questions like these pop up in my head when I read the OT. I was reading the Psalms tonight and the Sons of Korah and David both talk about their delight in the Lord for his forgiveness of sins and how He makes those who love Him righteous. If God forgave the sins of those who love Him before sending His Son, and made people righteous, then why did we need Jesus in the first place?

Jesus paid for the sins of all who are being saved. God arranged it that way. Jesus is God, or don't you believe that?

 

[Brightfame52]

Jesus paid for the sins of all who are being saved. God arranged it that way. Jesus is God, or don't you believe that?

What about for them who are lost, did Jesus pay for their sins also ?

 

[Rescued One]

What about for them who are lost, did Jesus pay for their sins also ?

How can they be lost if He saved then?

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

He will save them. It's already decided.

Romans 8
28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

 

[Brightfame52]

How can they be lost if He saved then?

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

He will save them. It's already decided.

Romans 8
28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Scriptures says some are lost 2 Cor 4:3

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

Did Christ die for them?

 

[RDKirk]

Scriptures says some are lost 2 Cor 4:3

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

Did Christ die for them?

That scripture is a reference to Romans 1, or, rather, vice versa since Corinthians was written earlier. The Romans account is couched within much more doctrinal detail, probably because Paul had never been to Rome to have preached it in more detail.

 

[Brightfame52]

That scripture is a reference to Romans 1, or, rather, vice versa since Corinthians was written earlier. The Romans account is couched within much more doctrinal detail, probably because Paul had never been to Rome to have preached it in more detail.

That scripture says the Gospel is hid to them that are Lost. So did Christ die for them ?