What was Hamas thinking???

[BobRyan]

Israel-Hamas War: What You Need To Know

At 6:30 a.m. on October 7, 2023, Hamas, the Iran-backed terror group controlling Gaza, launched an unprovoked and vicious surprise attack on over 20 communities in Israel. Using rockets, paragliders, boats, motorcycles, other vehicles, and whatever other means they could, terrorists infiltrated...

www.ajc.org

IT is easy to understand the rationale Russia used to attack Ukraine. Something like "This will be as easy as taking candy from a baby - just like when we took Crimea". Even the allies of Ukraine in the West saw no real way out for Ukraine. Everyone was thinking it was yet another "take candy from a baby" scenario for Russia. (Thank God it blew up in their faces).

But what about Hamas' attack on Israel?? That is closer to "stand behind a baby and then shoot at a tank with a pistol". Just exactly what did they "HOPE" would happen?
1. IT is clear they never imagined that 2500 rockets would wipe out the entire nation of Israel.
2. IT is clear they knew that this would get GAZA leveled.
3. IT is clear that they knew it would mean that millions of people in Gaza would have to flee.

So what did they hope to get for it??. Some people killed in Israel and millions forced to escape from Gaza? How would that help Hamas? Was Hamas upset that Hamas members were not being killed in large enough numbers? Were they thinking that people in GAZA should have much worse living conditions?

As much as I don't like what Russia did -- at least I can see that they had some logic in place while they attempted that sort of crime. But Hamas' seems to be too anxious to shoot themselves in the foot just for the sake of the humiliation and loss. What is the point in that??

 

[RocksInMyHead]

I suspect that Hamas were looking to force Israel into attacking Gaza. That will inevitably lead to civilian casualties, which they hope will drive recruitment and isolate Israel on the world stage. Hamas does not care about Gaza or its inhabitants, outside of their potential as recruits. Their one and only goal is the destruction of Israel, and they're willing to do - and try - anything to achieve it.

 

[BobRyan]

I suspect that Hamas were looking to force Israel into attacking Gaza.

Ok - That is clear -
But I thought Hamas was more or less running the place in Gaza already -- did they hope that if Israel reduced their own territory in Gaza to rubble that it would be easier to manage??

That will inevitably lead to civilian casualties

Ok so - I agree they could easily see that getting Israel to bomb Gaza - their own home base - would get their own citizens killed.

Still sounds like a "watch me shoot myself in the foot" scenario to me.

, which they hope will drive recruitment and isolate Israel

The only people they would recruit are people that think Israel is supposed to "like having 2500 rockets blow up in Israel" -- and all of that sort of rocket-science class, would already be joining Hamas.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Ok - That is clear -
But I thought Hamas was more or less running the place in Gaza already -- did they hope that if Israel reduced their own territory in Gaza to rubble that it would be easier to manage??

Ok so - I agree they could easily see that getting Israel to bomb Gaza - their own home base - would get their own citizens killed.

Still sounds like a "watch me shoot myself in the foot" scenario to me.

Again, they couldn't care less about the people of Gaza. They don't care if civilians die. They're nominally in charge, but that doesn't mean that they have any interest in actually governing.

The only people they would recruit are people that think Israel is supposed to "like having 2500 rockets blow up in Israel" -- and all of that sort of rocket-science class, would already be joining Hamas.

Angry, desperate people have a tendency to join extremist groups - especially if they're angry and desperate because some other group destroyed their homes and killed their family/friends. It's not based on logic, just a desire for revenge. The US military ran into the same issue in Afghanistan and Iraq - ISIS was mainly a product of our invasion and occupation of Iraq, for example, and the Taliban is arguably stronger than it was in 2001.

 

[Canuckster]

Israel-Hamas War: What You Need To Know

At 6:30 a.m. on October 7, 2023, Hamas, the Iran-backed terror group controlling Gaza, launched an unprovoked and vicious surprise attack on over 20 communities in Israel. Using rockets, paragliders, boats, motorcycles, other vehicles, and whatever other means they could, terrorists infiltrated...

www.ajc.org

IT is easy to understand the rationale Russia used to attack Ukraine. Something like "This will be as easy as taking candy from a baby - just like when we took Crimea". Even the allies of Ukraine in the West saw no real way out for Ukraine. Everyone was thinking it was yet another "take candy from a baby" scenario for Russia. (Thank God it blew up in their faces).

But what about Hamas' attack on Israel?? That is closer to "stand behind a baby and then shoot at a tank with a pistol". Just exactly what did they "HOPE" would happen?
1. IT is clear they never imagined that 2500 rockets would wipe out the entire nation of Israel.
2. IT is clear they knew that this would get GAZA leveled.
3. IT is clear that they knew it would mean that millions of people in Gaza would have to flee.

So what did they hope to get for it??. Some people killed in Israel and millions forced to escape from Gaza? How would that help Hamas? Was Hamas upset that Hamas members were not being killed in large enough numbers? Were they thinking that people in GAZA should have much worse living conditions?

As much as I don't like what Russia did -- at least I can see that they had some logic in place while they attempted that sort of crime. But Hamas' seems to be too anxious to shoot themselves in the foot just for the sake of the humiliation and loss. What is the point in that??

Maybe Hamas was never what we were being told they are. Maybe they're a tool that can be used whenever a pretext for war is needed.

 

[WolfGate]

I think it is way simpler than all of that. I think they sincerely believe that if they are obedient enough Allah will destroy Israel and turn the land all over to them. Even though every objective examination of known information would say that their actions would result in a catastrophic loss, they expect a miracle from Allah.

 

[BPPLEE]

Ok - That is clear -
But I thought Hamas was more or less running the place in Gaza already -- did they hope that if Israel reduced their own territory in Gaza to rubble that it would be easier to manage??

Ok so - I agree they could easily see that getting Israel to bomb Gaza - their own home base - would get their own citizens killed.

Still sounds like a "watch me shoot myself in the foot" scenario to me.

The only people they would recruit are people that think Israel is supposed to "like having 2500 rockets blow up in Israel" -- and all of that sort of rocket-science class, would already be joining Hamas.

I think it’s possible that they thought other Arab states would join in and have a war on Israel and finally wipe them out. Kind of like Manson’s Helter Skelter attack. But that’s just me taking a guess and I am no expert on the subject

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I suspect that Hamas were looking to force Israel into attacking Gaza. That will inevitably lead to civilian casualties, which they hope will drive recruitment and isolate Israel on the world stage. Hamas does not care about Gaza or its inhabitants, outside of their potential as recruits. Their one and only goal is the destruction of Israel, and they're willing to do - and try - anything to achieve it.

That, or they're being used as pawns by larger entities like Hezbollah (or perhaps even other countries) who told them "if you kick things off, we'll watch your back and be ready to swoop in to back you up" and then hung them out to dry. It wouldn't be the first time...

What's more puzzling is that even though it's blatantly obvious that Hamas uses residents as figurative (and sometimes literal) "attack shields", nearly two thirds of Palestinians in Gaza, East Jerusalem, and the West Bank have a favorable view of Hamas.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

This is very moving.

 

[IceJad]

Israel-Hamas War: What You Need To Know

At 6:30 a.m. on October 7, 2023, Hamas, the Iran-backed terror group controlling Gaza, launched an unprovoked and vicious surprise attack on over 20 communities in Israel. Using rockets, paragliders, boats, motorcycles, other vehicles, and whatever other means they could, terrorists infiltrated...

www.ajc.org

IT is easy to understand the rationale Russia used to attack Ukraine. Something like "This will be as easy as taking candy from a baby - just like when we took Crimea". Even the allies of Ukraine in the West saw no real way out for Ukraine. Everyone was thinking it was yet another "take candy from a baby" scenario for Russia. (Thank God it blew up in their faces).

But what about Hamas' attack on Israel?? That is closer to "stand behind a baby and then shoot at a tank with a pistol". Just exactly what did they "HOPE" would happen?
1. IT is clear they never imagined that 2500 rockets would wipe out the entire nation of Israel.
2. IT is clear they knew that this would get GAZA leveled.
3. IT is clear that they knew it would mean that millions of people in Gaza would have to flee.

So what did they hope to get for it??. Some people killed in Israel and millions forced to escape from Gaza? How would that help Hamas? Was Hamas upset that Hamas members were not being killed in large enough numbers? Were they thinking that people in GAZA should have much worse living conditions?

As much as I don't like what Russia did -- at least I can see that they had some logic in place while they attempted that sort of crime. But Hamas' seems to be too anxious to shoot themselves in the foot just for the sake of the humiliation and loss. What is the point in that??

If humans are rational beings you might have an argument. But alas that is not very insightful. Based on what I know of the situation and the history I read I can only give what are my own conclusions.

It is a mixture of politics, religion and emotions.

1. Hamas by attacking Israel may achieve multiple goals in one act. One is to solidify their hold on Gaza. They position themselves as the vanguard of the Palestinian people and by the success of the attack showed that they are the only one capable of advancing the Palestinian cause. Fatah their rival in the West Bank has been more diplomatic and produces little tangible result for the Gazans. Status quo for the Gazans are nothing short of imprisonment to them at least according to those who speak about it. Hamas by doing something changes the status quo sparking at hope for a different outcome. Hamas capitalized on this to remain in power and recruit more to their cause. With enough time they may even take over Fatah in the West Bank.

2. It raises their profile with their benefactors such as Iran. By showing that they are willing to act, they are indicating that the benefactors' "investments" and trust in them are not misplaced. Hamas has become irreplaceable to larger powers in the region that are politically at odds with the "Western lead" order. They have the ability to draw in bigger Western powers into a quagmire to tie the powers down politically. This allows greater leverage for their benefactors to assert their influence. In exchange Hamas gets more funding and support.

3. Then there is the religious angle. Hamas is merely carrying out one interpretation of their scriptures. It is a religious duty to make war on the Jews. Whether rightly interpreted or not matters little as long they believe it is. This is still religious fervor. It might be a little hard for some western people to process this as western people has long severed themselves spiritually. Western people try to comprehend this from a logical cost benefit perspective where Hamas is merely altruistic. That is why they appear to care little about the safety of the Gazans. But to them everyone is in the same boat. Hamas' fight is also the people's fight. They are the same ummah (brotherhood) bound by the same obligations. Since most Gazan support them morally and politically (Hamas won elections remember) there is little need to care about the "consequences" as "everyone" is of a single goal.

4. Lastly is revenge. Emotional gratification. For what? For all the sufferings the Palestinians endured. It doesn't matter whether the sufferings are a direct cause of their own actions or by the Israeli Jews. This is about getting even and give back. Methods varies but nothing should be haram (forbidden) when dealing with the enemies. That is why so many celebrated the brutality done by Hamas. It is catharsis for Hamas and the Palestinian people.

In a way the same points can be use to describe how the Israeli responded.

 

[BobRyan]

Looks like Hamas gets their orders from Iran, their goal is the same destroy the Jews what ever the cost.

Do you think they were hiding behind civilians in Gaza with the idea that they did not care that this would draw fire down on Gaza - just so long as they had some level of casualties on the side of Israel??

proof -- Hammas "shot itself" -- shot a Hospital in Gaza -- due to poor planning and poor quality missile system. Then blamed someone else to fool those who are easily mislead.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Hi Bob - thank goodness I thought I had accidently put everyone on ignore in this thread.

I do and it seems Hamas/Iran's goal is to use the destruction of the Palestine people to create international outrage directed at Israel, it is only going to get worse as the ground assault begins. It should be obvious to everyone that the terrorist's care nothing for Gaza or the civilians.

The whole situation is horrific and should never have happened.

I just saw a news clip that the PLO is now fighting against Hamas in Gaza.

 

[wing2000]

But what about Hamas' attack on Israel?

What do you think their objective is?


IMO, they are baiting Israel into a trap.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

Never in Israel's history has seen so many citizens killed in such a short time. I'm sure Hamas considers that an accomplishment in itself - shattering the illusion of Israel's security by showing the world that Israel's defenses are not impregnable. In that sense, Israel has already lost.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

Maybe - but mostly it was to kill Israelis, and lots of them. Proving that to be possible has implications about Israel's strength.

 

[wing2000]

Maybe - but mostly it was to kill Israelis, and lots of them. Proving that to be possible has implications about Israel's strength.

Demonstrating that Israel is vulnerable will certainly help Hamas recruitment (and others enemeys of Israel). That's one of the main reasons the US has moved significant military resources closer to Israel and issued several warnings to Iran and their proxies such as Hezbolah.

I think Hamas is counting on Israel to exact revenge and invade Gaza. Hamas has several advantages in doing so:

1) The civilian casualty count will be extremely high. Already, we are hearing estimates of 3,500 civilians killed by the 5k+ bombs Isreal has relaesed over Gaza. The civilian count continue to climb as Israel bombs Hamas targets amongst the civilian population. Hamas is already using images of the carnage to further their narrative and gain additional support and sympthy globally. It will also radicalize more Palestinians as they see their family members die.

2) Militarily, Hamas will have the upper hand in the urban landscape of Gaza. There are hundreds of milies of tunnels and thousand of buildings. Every single tunnel, room etc will have to be cleared by Israeli soldiers. Hamas has undoubtedly set up booby traps. This will be an extremely risky and deadly operation for the Israel army. At some point, the cost may become to high for Israel to bear and they may need to exit.

Israel should think long and hard about their next steps.

 

[BPPLEE]

Demonstrating that Israel is vulnerable will certainly help Hamas recruitment (and others enemeys of Israel). That's one of the main reasons the US has moved significant military resources closer to Israel and issued several warnings to Iran and their proxies such as Hezbolah.

I think Hamas is counting on Israel to exact revenge and invade Gaza. Hamas has several advantages in doing so:

1) The civilian casualty count will be extremely high. Already, we are hearing estimates of 3,500 civilians killed by the 5k+ bombs Isreal has relaesed over Gaza. The civilian count continue to climb as Israel bombs Hamas targets amongst the civilian population. Hamas is already using images of the carnage to further their narrative and gain additional support and sympthy globally. It will also radicalize more Palestinians as they see their family members die.

2) Militarily, Hamas will have the upper hand in the urban landscape of Gaza. There are hundreds of milies of tunnels and thousand of buildings. Every single tunnel, room etc will have to be cleared by Israeli soldiers. Hamas has undoubtedly set up booby traps. This will be an extremely risky and deadly operation for the Israel army. At some point, the cost may become to high for Israel to bear and they may need to exit.

Israel should think long and hard about their next steps.

I think they may flood the tunnels.That’s an effective and safer method for dealing with that problem. Clearing the buildings will be what the US faced in Iraq and I think they are getting tips from Iraq war veterans

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

Demonstrating that Israel is vulnerable will certainly help Hamas recruitment

Propaganda of the deed...

 

[Landon Caeli]

MOD HAT ON

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[FireDragon76]

I think it’s possible that they thought other Arab states would join in and have a war on Israel and finally wipe them out. Kind of like Manson’s Helter Skelter attack. But that’s just me taking a guess and I am no expert on the subject

This is a way for Hamas to put pressure on governments like Saudi Arabia and Jordan. Hamas are desperate and they wanted to spoil the peace process between Israel and Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is vulnerable because beneath their autocratic regime is a population that is generally highly sympathetic to Palestinians.