- Dec 24, 2018
- 15,128
- 6,906
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Messianic
- Marital Status
- Private
Maybe it's because you are a young girl (or old woman) with a womb full of the seeds of men...
Upvote
0
I only ask that you kill the young girls with wombs that may still have seeds of men floating in them.......yet leave alive the young fresh untouched wombs....really to receive new seed.....
It does not seem that there exists a logical or rational purpose or rationale?
Let's say that humans don't have freewill. There can still be a purpose to life and legitimate judgment by God of humans. It is like testing various engineering designs. Of course God might already know the strengths and weaknesses of each design, but maybe the designs themselves (us humans) need to see our strengths and weaknesses. So we need to live a life and then God might say, "See? You focused on your own pleasures while knowing that others needed help from you." Maybe that allows the human to learn and improve in the afterlife. Maybe we humans are designed to transform ourselves through learning into an acceptable design. Maybe "acceptable" means merely humble and aware of our failings. I'm just speculating. Maybe life is pointless.In a sense, I guess, but there seems to exist caveats... God allows the freewill of 'man' apparently. But in the case of Numbers 31:17-18, for example, He commanded it; verses instead allowing humans to make choices upon their on volition, without direct intervention. But I get what you are saying, is if God knows the future, God already knows your future choices. But then the question becomes, why 'watch re-runs', in the sense that He already knows the conclusion of everything anyways... Or more simply, what is the point of life on earth, If God already knows your ultimate choices ahead of time?
It does seem strange that no Christian seems to be making a serious effort to confront the issue. Do they really believe in Christianity if their solution is to ignore this type of issue? Of course the issue is more problematic for fundamentalists than liberals, but there are plenty of fundamentalists on CF who should be responding. I don't get it. Maybe they have heard this issue a million times already and don't want to rehash it?I now wonder if the responses are minimal, from Christians, because it causes too much uncomfortability, or maybe one may find that they have no choice but to practice cognitive dissonance, or maybe, I've just offended too many Christians, or other...?
Maybe it's because you are a young girl (or old woman) with a womb full of the seeds of men...
Numbers 31:17-18 (underlined area specifically)
'17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.'
As the title suggests, what was God's focus in this particular case? I have struggled to find a logical rationale/conclusion, but thus far, draw a blank - in support of an asserted 'loving Yahweh'...?
Seems as though the author of this narrative 'commands' that the taking of virgins was permissible.
Thus, I now ask, what was God's rationale?
The rationale was that the virgin Midianite women, being ..... well.............virgins..............wouldn't have been guilty in having been recently active in seducing Israelite men to commit Idolatry and Fornication; the Midianite "s*l*u*t*s," on the other hand, had no such moral composure or any remaining state of dignity.
There you go. Shocking, but true, and ready for the front page of the National Enquirer!
Done.
It sounds as if you might be suggesting that since I cannot find any plausible rationale, as to why God would order such actions, that it must be (me), whom is interpreting "God's" command incorrectly.
Verses the alternative, where it is instead (you), having to ultimately reconcile that maybe there was no God to be found, in THIS case; where He would order one group to take another groups 'virgins' in war.
Maybe you could be so kind, as to present God's rationale in this particular event? If you cannot, then I'll assume the later, that it is (you)
Can you elaborate? Your answer is like giving as your mathematical proof, "I used algebra, trigonometry, and a little logic". That doesn't help anybody else who wants to follow your reasoning.First, you would have to give your interpretation, which I don't believe you have...hence, your question (the thread title).
My interpretation is the plain reading of the text along with some other levels of exegesis (Pardes (Jewish exegesis) - Wikipedia).
I used peshat, remez, and a little sod!
Can you elaborate? Your answer is like giving as your mathematical proof, "I used algebra, trigonometry, and a little logic". That doesn't help anybody else who wants to follow your reasoning.
Remember in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah that Abraham persuades God that the good people should not be punished simply for living as a minority among the evil people. In fact, God agreed that the opposite should be true - the evil people should be spared for the sake of only a few good people living among them.The rationale was that the virgin Midianite women, being ..... well.............virgins..............wouldn't have been guilty in having been recently active in seducing Israelite men to commit Idolatry and Fornication; the Midianite "s*l*u*t*s," on the other hand, had no such moral composure or any remaining state of dignity.
There you go. Shocking, but true, and ready for the front page of the National Enquirer!
Done.
That link is like adding the following link to the description of my proof, ("I used algebra, trigonometry, and a little logic").Did you click on the link?
By that logic, it would follow that the boys had also seduced the Israelites into idolatry and fornication. Or is there another reason they were executed?
Remember in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah that Abraham persuades God that the good people should not be punished simply for living as a minority among the evil people. In fact, God agreed that the opposite should be true - the evil people should be spared for the sake of only a few good people living among them.
This God of Number 31 seems to be a different person.
Here is a Jewish essay on Numbers 31. At least the author is honest about the issues that story raises even though no real explanation is given.
Coping with Complexity | My Jewish Learning
That link is like adding the following link to the description of my proof, ("I used algebra, trigonometry, and a little logic").
Mathematics - Wikipedia
In math typically the student is required to show step by step how he/she reached the solution. It isn't enough to say "I used some math and here is my answer".
In line with the context of the OP, and being that this is as @cvanwey says a "particular case," I think there is another but still related reason which prevented the young Midianite boys from being spared.
To my mind, that reason is that the tribal sector of Midianites mentioned in Number chapter 31 relinquished their status of privilege when they schemed against the people of Israel and were then classified and relegated to the same low status already had by the several Canaanite nations who were condemned to suffer the fate of "Yahweh warfare," or Harem. These particular Midianites became a tribe of those "near" rather than "far off," and thus the little boys, unfortunately, were not to be spared either.
This is my thinking as I've considered the various relevant texts hermeneutically myself, as well as conferring with Paul Copan & Matthew Flannagan in their book, Did God Really Command Genocide?: Coming to terms with the justice of God (2014), among some other sources.
An interesting thing among apologists is their absolute lack of consistency.
Israelites and their relationship with God is always characterized by the Israelites screwing up. They're always invoking God's wrath and doing the wrong thing.
Yet in warfare, they never do anything wrong - even if they commit genocide, institutionalized rape, and literally any warcrime you can possibly imagine.
I guess they were just great, impeccably moral people except in their dealings with their God.
I guess we've found an instance where genocide and rape is moral. The search is over.
The rationale was that the virgin Midianite women, being ..... well.............virgins..............wouldn't have been guilty in having been recently active in seducing Israelite men to commit Idolatry and Fornication; the Midianite "s*l*u*t*s," on the other hand, had no such moral composure or any remaining state of dignity.
Thanks for those references. I doubt that I would agree with applying the Principle of the Seed to this Bible story, but at least I know what inspired your post.You would like to know how I acquired and how I use my reading comprehension skills? As far as the principle of the Seed, it is a theme that runs through the entire Bible.
https://www.amazon.com/Principle-Seed-Bradford-Scott-ebook/dp/B00UZQEIIY
https://www.wildbranch.org/teachings/powerpoint/The Principle of the Seed.ppt
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?