what to do about 'christadelphians'?

[Goodbook]

I'm really sorry to have to post this but I have a work colleague who insists on giving me false biblical information under the guise of 'scholarship' and saying I have to have an open mind about scholarship versus tradition.

He is a a sincere believer and right about some things but just so wrong in others and I confess I got angry. In a conversation I told him how the JWS don't believe Jesus was crucified at all but that he was killed on a stake, not a cross, and then I was surprised how HE thought it was 'open to debate'. I don't want to debate about Jesus death. Jesus precious blood paid for my sins, and all of mankind, on the cross. The Bible means what it says about the cruxifiction, his hands pierced, Jesus being hung on a tree (the tree, being a crossbeam) , the inscription above..but this work collegue tries to insist the greek 'stauros' is just a stake and perhaps Jesus was not even crucified but staked(?). I don't know the exact shape of the cross, it was probably more T shaped than t shaped but I simply cannot believe Jesus was impaled or staked. It goes against historical, archeological evidence as well.

If the 'stake' execution was true.why do the Greek orthodox church have cross symbols..presumbably they know the Greek language, and know what it means. Because my work colleague is a christadelphian, he insists that everything stemming from tradition is wrong and that it is all mixed up with politics and erroneous translations. Perhaps the christadelphians are the only true christians and nobody knew the truth of anything before they came on the scene? God tells me no. Yes the catholic church has a lot of error but even they have some truth, despite making an idol of the crucifixtion. The cross may already have been a pagan symbol, but born again Christians do not use it as a pagan symbol.

He goes along with all these biblical scholars and I have no desire to be trapped in this semantics trying to be clever and make God's word into a lie. If the King James Bible is wrong then why didn't they correct it in the 'revised' editions and just say Jesus was staked?

I really need some advice in this. I do not need an 'open mind'. A christian puts on the whole armour of God and has the mind of Christ.

I can see if I start fellowshipping with him he will just try and feed me christadelphian ideas, that I know to be wrong and contrary to the Bible. How can I talk to him without getting sucked into this prideful biblical scholarship that he exalts above the Bible itself? E.W Bullinger is one name. He has many books and lexicons and biblical commentaries but it seems to me he can't see the wood for the trees.

I will pray for him but what else can I do? He does not believe in the Holy Spirit, just that the spirit is somehow a collective thing like 'team spirit' rather than a living witness to Jesus. In other respects he is a fine man and earnest teacher who helped me with a bible display in the library..but I did not know he was christadelphian. He does not 'keep christmas' or Easter because he thinks it is completely pagan. Should I be concerned or just leave his beliefs alone? When he talks to me I do agree with some of the things he says but in other things I don't agree I don't say anything as I don't wish to start an argument.,.but this one I had to speak up and say it was wrong - he photocopied things out of EW Bullingers book 'the companion bible' for me. I had not read anything by him before but just one glance at this excerpt I knew it was wrong and trying to subvert the truth of the Bible.

 

[joey_downunder]

What to do? Most important - Pray pray pray, and study the Bible carefully to compare what it actually says with the Christadelphians' false doctrines.

However since you are having to put up with his attempts to indoctrinate you should try to find good websites for your own understanding e.g. Christadelphianism | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

 

[LilLamb219]

You need to set up ground rules before having any further biblical discussions with him. Tell him that the Bible is God's Word and that is where we can find with certainty the truth of our triune God. Men make mistakes. All further discussion must stem from the Bible only or you cannot allow the talks to continue.

Sound like you can do that? It will help prevent further frustration with him and you won't get as angry.

 

[Avniel]

Who cares how Jesus died a cross a stake or sword he still died for our sins. I think we as christians shouldn't argue those things. But what other doctrine does he say that is wrong.

 

[LilLamb219]

1 Peter 2:24

New International Version (NIV)

24 “He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.”



Emphasis in bold mine.

 

[McCloud]

I do believe it is an issue if we allow anyone to change or modify the word of God we open the door for every heroic and cult that comes alone to rewrite scripture. The kw folks have been doing just that for some time now. Jesus warned us about false teachers.

 

[drobbyb]

The bible is God's Holy infallible written word. If it says that Jesus died on a cross, then he did. End of story. All of the bible is true, every word.

Jesus said in John 10:24-25:
Joh 10:24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
Joh 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

The major problem that some have is they do not trust what God has said. They look for faults in something that is perfect and listen to the evil one and let what others have said make up their mind.

I invite you to verify for yourself what I say.

 

[Goodbook]

Thanks for your advice. I did try and tell him what matters is Jesus died for our sins and not get too caught up over what someone else who claims he is a scholar thinks the greek word means. It just seems the thin edge of the wedge when you start saying things like that and then start claiming the whole Bible is wrong just because you read the greek in a 'classsical' way.

The other doctrine he says is wrong is the trinity. I asked him if he would say the nicene creed and he said no he doesn't believe in it. Now I can say the nicene creed even though I am not catholic or anglican because those things are in scripture. But he can't, he will nitpick it to bits and say its just 'tradition'

1 John 5:7 he will also deny this part claiming that it was just added for 'tradition', even though in other parts of the Bible the scriptures support this.

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, [/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." (1 John 5:7)


[/FONT]​

 

[drobbyb]

Goodbook, stick to what you know is right. Trust the Lord and have faith! If someone tries to convince you otherwise, they are only speaking death. Speak life instead.

 

[heron]

It sounds like he is more concerned with impressing you with his knowledge, than you coming back with the right answer. Just let him ramble.

I have heard the T-shaped cross theory too, but do not think of it as a problem. It does not mean that the Bible wrote it improperly, but that all those jewelry makers and liturgical designers didn't know what to do with a stake shape. The T-shape theory still supports the story of nails in His hands.

Look at the Greek word used in scriptures for "cross."
New Testament Greek - StudyLight.org

NT instances of the word "cross" Interlinear Study Bible on StudyLight.org

I didn't know about Christadelphians, but they sound like many of their doctrines come from scriptural or historical research.
THE CHRISTADELPHIANS

But unless the fruit of his efforts demonstrates love for people and leads you closer to God, I would just let him talk and then stick to your own denomination(s). People who like to argue will argue even more if they are proven wrong.

 

[Goodbook]

Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies.

The thing is..what he says or agrees with grieves the Holy Spirit and that is why I got angry. If it were just something silly and stupid or inconsequential, it would not bother me so much.

I have noticed he tends to be arrogant towards unbelievers, suggesting he has this 'secret knowledge' of some kind. He told me he would rather spend his time studying Bible than be with his family who he feels takes him away from the Bible, or rather his colllections of Bibles, prophecy etc. He also trains his kids to learn greek and hebrew which he will then indoctrinate with the Christadelphian worldview. I pray for his wife and kids. They are not allowed to go to any churches at all because the christadelphians believe they are all apostate. His wife suffers from long-term depression yet he still believes in the psychological, biological theories rather than trusting the Lord to deliver her and set her free. I was set free. I can't let him ramble - I just don't want to hear how he inisists that he believes in God and then demonstrates how much he doesn't. I think this is why they call themselves 'christadelphians' rather than christians.

BTW to be clear, A T shape is still a cross, not a single stake.

 

[EJK]

It is very hard with CD's, they are exclusive, fundamentalists and elitists. They have very good bible knowledge, and interpret the bible to suit their belief system, that all christians are wrong. You will be very frastrated because they do not accept christian interpretation of fundamental scripture interpretation. I think they will accept about 50% of of christian belief, but CD's say that Jesus was only the son of God. They have some logical questions about things which is good to investigate but that they alone hold the truth is a myth.

 

[Amanda Marans]

Do some internet research. Enter the words "Christadelphian cult." In many quarters, the Christadelphians are believed to be a cult. At the very best, they are described as "cult-like." My own experience substantiated those beliefs.

 

[mnorian]

Do some internet research. Enter the words "Christadelphian cult." In many quarters, the Christadelphians are believed to be a cult. At the very best, they are described as "cult-like." My own experience substantiated those beliefs.

This thread hasn't been posted to since 2013 and the OP (the member who started it) hasn't been on CF since 2017.

 

[samwise gamgee]

This thread hasn't been posted to since 2013 and the OP (the member who started it) hasn't been on CF since 2017.

Even though that is true this thread contains practical advice about dealing with false cults and we may find some members of them even on this forum. Just before I read this thread I read an introduction post from a new member who is a Christadelphian. That is why I noticed the title of this thread and decided to read it.

 

[mnorian]

Even though that is true this thread contains practical advice about dealing with false cults and we may find some members of them even on this forum. Just before I read this thread I read an introduction post from a new member who is a Christadelphian. That is why I noticed the title of this thread and decided to read it.

That one on IY was also and old post bumped back up. I posted these reminders; as things in the cult world my have changed since 2010 (the first date of the OP on IY).

 

[Kenyon Ledford]

The Christdelphian (never heard of them till now) site says "1848-now"

1848 is pretty modern to discover a new 'thing' about God. I could come up with some sort of ism based upon my misunderstanding of the bible, slap up a website saying, "Kenyonbiblia 2019-now" and it would be just as legit. It would seem.

 

[Joined2krist]

I hope she kept her distance from him, this is how I handle people who preach heresy

 

[Amanda Marans]

Do some internet research. Enter the words "Christadelphian cult." In many quarters, the Christadelphians are believed to be a cult. At the very best, they are described as "cult-like." My own experience substantiated those beliefs.

.....Wait. I am parsing words. My "experience" was a nightmarish one; no need not to state that plainly. This horrifying little group, which on its surface appears harmless, completely destroyed my entire family. A nuclear weapon could not have more thoroughly lain waste to everyone I loved.

 

[Amanda Marans]

What countless wasted hours, listening to their doctrine. What hobbled, handicapped lifes we had, by subscribing to their "Truth" and being hemmed in by their religion's restrictions and attendance schedules. What stunted spirituality we experienced, with its limits on salvation and tolerance and acceptance. By their measure, only a tiny number of people "discern" the "Truth" and achieve salvation. They even believe many of those who "discover" the "Truth" fail to achieve salvation. A tiny minority within a tiny minority. And if God indeed exists, what would that then make him, except a sadist? What exclusive, elitist, and haughty hogwash.